2019 NHL Entry Draft in Vancouver, BC

[Alflives]

Just now, canuckledraggin said:

Think about what? The kid hasn't been to the playoffs yet and likely won't be for a couple more years. Also he plays defense and you didn't mention any defensemen as comparables. How about Tory Krug and Matt Grzelcyk. They seemed to do alright in the playoffs.

I keep hearing Duncan Keith  as a comparable.  

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

It’s more than just looking at stats, it’s about how their game will translate to the NHL in a couple years.  

 

Tier 1

Hughes

Kakko

Tier 2

Turcotte

Byram

Zegras

Tier 3 (any of these players in tier 3 could go anywhere, but they’re where I have them ranked) 

Cozens

Dach

Krebs

Boldy

Podkolzin

Boom or Bust Players.  

Newhook 

Caufield

Broberg

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly what I’m thinking, except, Newhook’s style could fit on a second line with PP time so he’s not exactly a boom or bust, but that’s just my two cents

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

It’s more than just looking at stats, it’s about how their game will translate to the NHL in a couple years.  

 

Tier 1

Hughes

Kakko

Tier 2

Turcotte

Byram

Zegras

Tier 3 (any of these players in tier 3 could go anywhere, but they’re where I have them ranked) 

Cozens

Dach

Krebs

Boldy

Podkolzin

Boom or Bust Players.  

Newhook 

Caufield

Broberg

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you put Zegras in tier two.  I kind of think he has a high bustaroo potential.  (Yes, I know.  I’m a moron.  I still think Zegras is a wasted pick. ) 

[canuckledraggin]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I keep hearing Duncan Keith  as a comparable.  

Hughes wants to emulate Keith is where that comes from. Minus the cheap shot to Daniel Sedin he is a prototype defenseman, who has an unlimited gas tank. A perenial all-star 2 time Norris winner. Yuck

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Button does watch and scout these kids fyi. And as I illustrated earlier, he was far from alone in assessing Bouchard as a lesser option in that draft or after.

 

And I do know a few people who are actual scouts/related fields FWIW, they tended to be of the same opinion. He's good, not great. So there's them and the sources I provided earlier who do 'know more than me' and 'make a living at it'. So I'm not just pretending to know more than these people. I in fact quite trust their opinions and hence inform mine from them.

I question how much he really watches tho.

 

cause he weighs international play heavily into his rankings every year.

 

and I just can’t get over his take on Newhook sayings he’s a good but not great skater this year.

 

Makes me question his cred as a scout.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, R3aL said:

I question how much he really watches tho.

 

cause he weighs international play heavily into his rankings every year.

 

and I just can’t get over his take on Newhook sayings he’s a good but not great skater this year.

 

Makes me question his cred as a scout.

Button has his faults as does THN. Nobody is infallible. I try to absorb as much as I can from multiple sources and form a well rounded opinion.

[JamesB]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Button isn’t a pro scout.  He’s a talking head that gets his data from others.  ISS is the authority or baseline and others like THN use actual scouts in creating their rankings of which OJ is 66, Miller, 63 ...Bouchard 13 based on how well they predict their actual careers will be.  That’s their most recent list...it’s ok I’m in a bad mood sorry if I made it personal, I just don’t pretend to know more then the people that make a living making these things and happen to like what Bouchard brings to the table.  Ellis is still the current bar for small defenseman in the league although Krug is giving him a run for his money, that is until Hughes takes it over.  

 

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually, Button was not only a scout, but a director of scouting.  He’s been in scouting and management forever.  I guess he’s retired to broadcasting now.  He does know hockey.  If he’s seen guys play over lots of games, I think he’d have a fairly good read on them.

My wife loves Button’s hair.  Every time she sees him on TV she says he’s got really nice hair.  I kind of hate the guy actually.  

 

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Button does watch and scout these kids fyi. And as I illustrated earlier, he was far from alone in assessing Bouchard as a lesser option in that draft or after.

 

And I do know a few people who are actual scouts/related fields FWIW, they tended to be of the same opinion. He's good, not great. So there's them and the sources I provided earlier who do 'know more than me' and 'make a living at it'. So I'm not just pretending to know more than these people. I in fact quite trust their opinions and hence inform mine from them.

I have a high regard for Button. I remember the Virtanen draft when Button had Virtanen ranked relatively low but he predicted the Canucks would draft him at #6 anyway. He was right on both counts. His read on Virtanen was very accurate.

 

Before going to TSN, Button had a very successful career in scouting. Here is some material from Wikipedia:

 

Button began his NHL management career in 1988 with the Minnesota North Stars. He was the Director of Scouting for Dallas Stars 1992–98, Director of Player Personnel for Dallas Stars 1998–2000. During this time, Button worked for hockey legends Bobby Clarke and Bob Gainey. While with the Stars, the team participated in two Stanley Cup Finals, winning in 1999, and were recipients of the Presidents Trophy on two occasions. The list of players drafted during his tenure include Derian Hatcher, Jere Lehtinen, Jamie Langenbrunner, Marty Turco, Jarome Iginla and Brenden Morrow.

...

He replaced Al Coates as the Vice President and General Manager of the Calgary Flames in 2000. Button held that position until the conclusion of the 2002–03 NHL season, when his contract was not renewed and was replaced with Darryl Sutter who Button had hired as Head Coach in December 2002.^[3] During the 2003–04 NHL season the Flames made it to the Stanley Cup Finals before losing in seven games to the Tampa Bay Lightning. Button is credited with building this team by acquiring many of the players instrumental in the Flames' success, including Craig Conroy, Martin Gelinas and Jordan Leopold.^[4] He was a guiding force for the Flames' primary development team Saint John Flames of the American Hockey League when they captured the Calder Cup championship in 2001. After his departure from the Flames he joined the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2004 as a scout.^[5]

 

 

That is a heck of a record. No scout or GM on the Canucks, now or previously, has as impressive a scouting record. I am not saying he was a great GM overall, but he was an excellent judge of talent. That does not mean he is always right and other reputable people or organizations might have different views. But I give his assessments  a lot of weight.

 

His final rankings from the last few years look  good. Last year he was one of the very few who had Kotkieniemi in the top 5. His other picks were standard, including Hughes at #6. In 2017 he had EP at #8, as did most others, and that looks like an underestimate now. In 2016 he had Sergachev ahead of Juolevi (and both behind Tkachuk). In 2015 he was about the only major scout to have Boeser in the top 10. He had him at #9. (Future Considerations has Boeser at 26 and ISS did not have Boeser in the first round.) If you compare past draft rankings with current player performance I think Button is about the best single source. Overall, his record looks very good.

[kenhodgejr]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why do you put Zegras in tier two.  I kind of think he has a high bustaroo potential.  (Yes, I know.  I’m a moron.  I still think Zegras is a wasted pick. ) 

A lot of people said that about Pettersson also because of his weight. I think Zegras is the real deal. He has elite game changing skill. This is one of the best drafts Ive seen in years. 

[filthycanuck]

15 hours ago, R3aL said:

I clearly stated originally I would consider trading Gaudette for a dman further along in his development. Especially if we can’t move Sutter. Noah Dobson for sure that would be a hockey trade I would be more onboard with if we were to trade Gaudette. Dobson is looking like he is going to push for a spot on the isles blue line  this summer.

 

How many Canucks draft picks have you seen win a hobey baker and develop like Gaudette? We don’t really have any comparables. 

 

You aren’t very very high on him I get it. The discussion was around trading him for a late first rounder. Don’t forget that.

Yes the discussion is late first rounder, It could be Dobson, or anybody, better example Thomas Harley on this years draft. Dobson has had ONE season more development under his belt compared to the imaginary first rounder we are debating about. I can understand what youre saying that yes, take a Dman further along, like Jake Bean whos had a full season in A and even got a look up in the bigs. What Im trying to get at is that whether its Dobson, Harley, or York, would you not want another pick to get the latter 2? All those guys are unproven in the American League, let alone the NHL, but have a ton of upside, but there is a risk yes, but every player does.

 

Im just of the mind if you're getting offered a late first rounder for a player on your roster, the guy that you have has to be not only one of your core players, but have the upside, the numbers to back it up, let alone from a first year 5th rounder. Ive seen 90% of the games this season and I can probably count in one hand how many times Gaudette was one of the better players on the ice.

 

I don't really put much stock on hobey baker winners, its about a 50/50 shot they'll be either really good or meh players, they arent guaranteed stars

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, Mad Jon said:

If I’m going for the home run pick ( which I would probably be too gutless to make ) I’m picking the Mad Mouse Caufield, That little bugger is bound to score 50 goals. Would you bet against him ?.............How much ?

Mighty mouse isn't a bad term.

 

From the combines, he scored extremely high in strength, both upper & lower body. Was among the leanest athletes for body fat as well as great strength. He's a great athlete, very fit. I don't believe his success, or future success will be an accident. I will be surprised if he is available at ten. But its a wacky year.

7 hours ago, Alflives said:

From our spot at 10 it makes no sense to trade up.  We will have equal odds (closer this draft than many) of getting as good a player at ten as at 4.  

Equal is pushing it.

 

My own rankings have Hughes, Kacko, then next but close behind Byram & Turcotte.  Its a lot harder to rate after that.  

 

People, by that I mean one team or another, may love Dach's potential. Blended with his size? But these 4 stand out to me. A guy like Caufield?  His stats, no doubt, are inflated by who he played with.  Not just Hughes, but also Turcotte, Boldy, Zegras (your favourite, ask your wife about his hair?   ).  But he's still extremely slick.  Subtle adjustments, dart this way or that. Always to the perfect spot to rifle a shot most would not see, nor nail. But its still different than a guy who drives play in all zones.

[Pure961089]

8 hours ago, Stamkos said:

Exactly what I’m thinking, except, Newhook’s style could fit on a second line with PP time so he’s not exactly a boom or bust, but that’s just my two cents

Newhook is going to experience the Rathbone treatment.  Dominating against sub par competition and then immediately be thrown into real competition next year.  He’s worth a gamble for a team willing to swing for the fences.   Broberg on the other hand is Virtanen 2.0 only on defence.  All the natural talents in the world, all the size and speed you could ever want.  But does Broberg process the game quick enough to sneak into the top 10?  Will other GMs learn from Jimbo?  It’s not just speed and skill, it’s also how fast they process the game. 

[Pure961089]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

Why do you put Zegras in tier two.  I kind of think he has a high bustaroo potential.  (Yes, I know.  I’m a moron.  I still think Zegras is a wasted pick. ) 

I have him in that second tier because I think he’s a special playmaker. You could make a case for him being as good a playmaker as Hughes.  He process the game at an elite level.  His speed is very good but he’s first step is excellent.  

[Pure961089]

I’d like to take a poll to see how many people would be willing to trade next years draft pick (edit: first round) and a prospect like (edit) Gaudette DiPietro or Madden for another first round pick this year?  In the 11-14 range.   Would you do it?  

Edited June 15, 2019 by Pure961089

[appleboy]

11 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Seider has NHL speed.  Not game breaking speed. Very mature player for his age. A safe pick. 

 

But I doubt the best pick available. Seider, I have seen one system rank him 10th overall. Quite a few 15 to 20. But also quite a few 20 to 34.  

 

Podkolzin on the other hand? Has potential to be a top 3 forward, maybe eben top 3 or 4 players in this draft.  Zegras has sneaky & evasive speed, all out speed and puck control. Top 20% in the NHL overall speed. He might not be an all star? But a safe bet to be a highly effective player. And a weapon.  Seider, one notch down, highly likely to be an effective player.  Not likely to be an elite one.

...

They should stand up and cheer!

Hmmm, so Broberg?  Massive upside, wide shoulders, but still slim at 200 lbs.  He's big & a great athlete.  Many glimpses of great skills.

 

The forwards at 10 will be safer picks.  But Broberg could hit it out of the park!

So Benning needs to make a deal to get Edmonton's 8th pick and keep 10.

[Silky mitts]

Zegras is my guy that’s who I think can be around for our pick and who we should take 

[Canuck Surfer]

32 minutes ago, appleboy said:

So Benning needs to make a deal to get Edmonton's 8th pick and keep 10.

It would be nice.  Problem is, 8th overall picks are expensive. .

 

I dare say more than taking on a bad contract. 

 

At this point Jake or Juolevi would not command that pick.  IMO, but I feel that's fair.

 

Gaudette & our 10th?  I would cough.  Not sure I would offer it? Not sure they would take it....  (so might be an example).  

 

Might get us Dach? 

 

8th & Puljujarvi for Horvat? 8th and Bouchard??   

 

Looch & 8th for Eriksson & 10th is about only bad contract deal I have seen that might be realistic.  What dyu propose?

[We Are All Cucks]

His name has come up a couple times in these threads, but I am wondering what people's thoughts are on Arthur Kaliyev. Anybody know why he isn't as highly regarded as he was at the start of the season? 

 

He's recently been ranked 7th for NA skaters and 13th OA by ISS, but most have him in the 20-30 range. Back in October, Button had him at 10 (https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-kakko-boldy-and-kaliyev-rise-up-draft-rankings-1.1196164).

 

Wot's the deal? Just too many good players?

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually, Button was not only a scout, but a director of scouting.  He’s been in scouting and management forever.  I guess he’s retired to broadcasting now.  He does know hockey.  If he’s seen guys play over lots of games, I think he’d have a fairly good read on them.

My wife loves Button’s hair.  Every time she sees him on TV she says he’s got really nice hair.  I kind of hate the guy actually.  

Went to bed and woke up to this ha ha.   I fixed it with my edit, I meant to say Button isn’t a pro scout anymore.  He’s not the guys that drink bad coffee and spend days, weeks or months watching these guys, sure he’s got the eye can make better decisions based on the data than most but he’s not going to London and watching him play.  Each area has their scout and first thing a pro scout does when he comes to town is locate him and find out what he can from the local talent, they rely heavily on him as well as their eyeballs and scorecards.  

 

Button doesn’t have skin in the game anymore for a particular team.   THN takes ten pro scouts and does an average ranking.   Seems like the majority would have a better baseline then a few.  ISS not as certain about but given it’s their bread and butter it would be something similar but on an even broader spectrum, THN always includes their rankings as well given they consider them the main authority on the subject because they are.   One thing I will agree on is rarely one player on anyone’s list in exactly the same spot.  And when it comes to the actual draft, mock drafts are different then rankings by the same organizations (THN again for example) given they take into consideration organizational needs, not just BPA, Dobson and Bouchard slipped had a lot to do with MTL and a few other teams going a little off board (NYR) and picking organizationally etc.  .... Whalstrom was also a guy that slipped.  

 

And it happens all the time.   It’s ok to have your own opinion, obviously ours differs and that’s ok, my thinking is it’s a little early yet to really have a clue how this draft will end up, but I’m also certain just like every draft before it, in a mock re-draft five years from now, things would look a lot different.  Some duds, some about right where they should be and some guys would move way up.

 

edit:  also as for THN and ISS, ones average ranking of ten pro scouts had him at 6-7, the other average ranking of ???? scouts had him right there too.  Thats a LOT of guys.  

Edited June 15, 2019 by IBatch

[groovy]

14 hours ago, shayster007 said:

Calm down fun police it's a fan forum

If you find long and tedious posts with no sense of reality "fun" then good for you. I just find them tiresome. Still waiting for Dane Fox...

[groovy]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

Actually, Button was not only a scout, but a director of scouting.  He’s been in scouting and management forever.  I guess he’s retired to broadcasting now.  He does know hockey.  If he’s seen guys play over lots of games, I think he’d have a fairly good read on them.

My wife loves Button’s hair.  Every time she sees him on TV she says he’s got really nice hair.  I kind of hate the guy actually.  

You`re pushing 39 000 posts and you have a wife? LOL