[Discussion] Jake Virtanen or Nikolay Goldobin?

[The Beagle had landed]

Virtanen and Goldobin have been a hot topic issue all year.

 

Jake is big and fast with a heavy shot, but lacks vision and hockey sense.  He seems to have become redundant with the acquisitions of Leivo and Pearson, who bring experience and elements we need of Jake.

 

Nikolay has a skill set that could make him a serious offensive threat that is sorely lacking in our top 6, but lacks hustle and defensive responsibility that would make him a bonafide player.

 

My question to you, the brilliant minds of CDC, is simple:

 

If you could keep one of Jake Virtanen or Nikolay Goldobin, who would it be?

 

[canuckpuckluck1]

[khay]

Virtanen.

 

Leivo and Pearson bring experience but they don't quite bring what Virtanen brings: size and speed. Yes, it's only a straight line speed at this point but wait till he learns to forecheck properly, then Virt and Gaud will form a formidable third line. If Virtanen learns to be half as relentless as Gaud or Hansen, that line will be critical in winning us games in the playoffs.

 

If Baer is healthy, I don't really see a spot on this team for Goldy on this team. 

 

Leivo-EP-Boeser

Baer-Bo-Pearson

Motte-Gaud-Virt

Eriksson-Beagle-McEwen

 

If our dream comes true and that we draft Kakko or Hughes, it would push Leivo down to the third line.

 

Kakko-EP-Boeser

Baer-Bo-Pearson

Leivo-Gaud-Virt

Motte-Beagle-McEwen

 

Or

 

Baer-EP-Boeser

Hughes-Bo-Pearson

Leivo-Gaud-Virt

Motte-Beagle-McEwen

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Having a few guys like Stecher & Jake could bring a further advantage. They'll prob commit(lt contracts) maybe 500-750k cheaper, being local guys that fans(mostly) appreciate.

[timberz21]

Easy, Jake.  He can always be use as a bottom 6 or someone could potentially still take a chance on him in a bigger package.   

 

On the other hand, Goldobin is top 6 or bust.  And even though he has lots of skills, I don't think it's ever going to translate in the NHL.  If so, we would have seen it by now and there aren't enough flashes of brilliance to justify giving him a 2nd, 3rd and 4th chance to show what he can do.

 

I think he's 1 year, 1 team away from bolting in the KHL.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Both.  Failing that, Virtanen.  Virtanen brings elements that we don't already have and that many teams don't have.

[Mo Grit]

31 minutes ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

If you could keep one of Jake Virtanen or Nikolay Goldobin, who would it be?

Neither.  Time to try fleecing some other pressured GM, into draft picks based on what might be.

Canucks desperately need contributing NHL'ers.  Let other GM's coaches waste time trying to realize Jake's perplexing potential.

Goldobin has dropped to negligible value.  Anaheim's young dynamic finisher Steel, just showed Goldy what he might have been.

Management and coaching have proven incapable of developing either natural goalscorers or power forwards.

Only the more easily-coached, easily-sat Schallers and Spooners can grasp their perfect 200-foot, off the glass, passing game. 

A bummer of a summer a'cummer.

[Coconuts]

Jake, if he's not scoring he can still contribute in other ways. Goldy's isn't effective outside of a scoring role, not usually anyway.

 

Right now Jake looks like a complimentary third line winger who can skate, chip in offensively and throw the body but he's got potential to be more. Thing is, even if he never takes the next step and becomes that offensive threat we were looking for when he drafted him he'll likely still be a legit NHL player. Not sure I can say the same about Goldy.

 

Don't get me wrong, Goldy has that top flight skill you look for in your top six but he's inconsistent and you only get so much rope in a role like that before someone else is given a shot.

[Slegr]

Keep them both. Goldy as bait for Tryamkin, and Jake for when we eventually reach the post-season.

[RonMexico]

52 minutes ago, Mo Grit said:

Neither.  Time to try fleecing some other pressured GM, into draft picks based on what might be.

Canucks desperately need contributing NHL'ers.  Let other GM's coaches waste time trying to realize Jake's perplexing potential.

Goldobin has dropped to negligible value.  Anaheim's young dynamic finisher Steel, just showed Goldy what he might have been.

Management and coaching have proven incapable of developing either natural goalscorers or power forwards.

Only the more easily-coached, easily-sat Schallers and Spooners can grasp their perfect 200-foot, off the glass, passing game. 

A bummer of a summer a'cummer.

 

Right, no onus on the players for living up to their end of the bargain.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Virtanen. Even if he doesn't make it as a top 6 player, he still have value as a bottom six. His speed, (semi)physical play, and defensive awareness put him a notch above Goldy as well imho. 

[Windshook]

Never mind either or be rid of both.Once in awhile they show up to play. Space cadets in my opinion.

[Nucker 67]

Speed - Jake

Size - Jake

Grit/Battle - Jake

Effort - Jake

Shot - tie

Passing - Nik

Stick-handling - Nik

D-game - Jake

Hockey IQ - Nik (by a hair)

Vision/Awareness - Nik

Age - Jake

Highest Value - Jake

 

I really don't know. If Goldobin can improve his D-game and plays with more passion, then he could be a keeper. If Jake can improve his passing and playmaking (more of a team mate), then Jake is the clear choice. Hmm, but Jake is probably worth a lot more than Goldy if a trade should happen. Regardless, I don't think the Canucks keep Goldobin, as he's had a lot of chances, and his lack of playing the right way has worn thin on the coaching staff. Jake can still get a lot better, he's only 22.  

[Provost]

Where is the neither choice.

 

Goldobin can be traded and upgraded in free agency.  Virtanen should be packaged together with something else to get a young D prospect.

[Nucker 67]

What about

 

to PHI: (RW) Jake Virtanen

to VAN:  (RD) Philippe Myers and a 4th 

 

Myers is undrafted, but had decent numbers in the AHL and Q. He's a big dude at 6'5" 202 and the same age as Jake (22 yrs). PHI have Gostisbehere, Provorov, Sanheim and Gudas on the back end, so I think they might be okay trading away a D prospect. Although, I have to admit, I never did my homework on Myers, so I don't know how his skating or shot is, etc.

 

Edler - Stecher

Hughes - Tanev

Hutton - Myers

Juolevi - Schenn

Biega

Teves

 

 

 

[Tystick]

I don't understand why we need to choose but if I had too, Virtanen hands down.

He's finally learning how to play a system and has so much potential left.

He will be a game changer for us in the playoffs.

[Nucker 67]

Here's a bit of info on Philippe Myers, from Hockey's Future

 

Talent Analysis

Myers is still in the early stages of development but has one attribute that teams covet; size. He is tall but not yet matured in terms of size and strength. He has shown limited offensive play in his first two seasons of junior hockey but has hints of potential in that area. He is a good skater and fluid for a player his size. He has potential if he can add strength and play a more consistent physical game.

 

Future

Myers earned an entry-level contract after attending Philadelphia's 2015 training camp as a free agent and had a breakout offensive season in 2015-16 in his third year with the QMJHL's Rouyn-Noranda Huskies. The 19-year-old could return to the Huskies for another season and is also eligible to play for Canada in the 2017 World Junior Championship. The Flyers are suddenly deep in young defenseman prospects with Ivan Provorov and Travis Sanheim likely to being their pro careers in 2016-17. Myers is another big, mobile player who has promise as a second pairing puck mover.

 

[mll]

37 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Here's a bit of info on Philippe Myers, from Hockey's Future

 

Talent Analysis

Myers is still in the early stages of development but has one attribute that teams covet; size. He is tall but not yet matured in terms of size and strength. He has shown limited offensive play in his first two seasons of junior hockey but has hints of potential in that area. He is a good skater and fluid for a player his size. He has potential if he can add strength and play a more consistent physical game.

 

Future

Myers earned an entry-level contract after attending Philadelphia's 2015 training camp as a free agent and had a breakout offensive season in 2015-16 in his third year with the QMJHL's Rouyn-Noranda Huskies. The 19-year-old could return to the Huskies for another season and is also eligible to play for Canada in the 2017 World Junior Championship. The Flyers are suddenly deep in young defenseman prospects with Ivan Provorov and Travis Sanheim likely to being their pro careers in 2016-17. Myers is another big, mobile player who has promise as a second pairing puck mover.

 

 

Save for Myers all their D prospects who played games this year shoot left.   If they move a young D it seems more likely to be a LD.   Fletcher also talked about how they really liked Myers and called him up at the TDL to play games.

 

[BCNate]

Virtanen without question.  He had a very good season in his role.  I still think he can be a 25 goal 50 point power forward with size and crazy speed.  

[Mathew Barzal]

Virtanen AINEC. 

 

I have no faith in Goldobin to raise his game to another level. The only reason he still has a spot on this team is Pettersson. Virtanen's success is self made. And he's shown incremental improvements every season, no matter how small.