Judd Brackett

[Westcoasting]

21 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

In the world of management & scouting? There are exceptions. But most are allowed to interview. Released from their contracts for better opportunities. Nobody wants to stand in the way.

 

I doubt it would be any different if a guy wanted to resign. Get someone new in to be a willing part of the team. Save wasted salary.

 

If Brackett was truly upset? I doubt he would still be here.

 

And if he was not still valued, equally he would have been fired. Even if they had to payout a contract.

 

 

 

 

Yeah i just said i don't think he's coming back or he would have signed a new contract already.  No idea if he is upset, no idea if he is not valued.  I assume again they value him or they wouldn't offer a new contract.

[SilentSam]

I think he’s going to Edmonton,.  I wonder if he has had conversations with them already,.  

Regardless,  If he knows he is not resigning,.  He knows what opportunities exist elsewhere.

 

Never heard of a Scout going into Free Agency before.    How far does the tampering bylaws stretch in contracts with staff?

 This just has a feel of Non disclosure, and tight lips.

 

[lmm]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I think he’s going to Edmonton,.  I wonder if he has had conversations with them already,.  

Regardless,  If he knows he is not resigning,.  He knows what opportunities exist elsewhere.

 

Never heard of a Scout going into Free Agency before.    How far does the tampering bylaws stretch in contracts with staff?

 This just has a feel of Non disclosure, and tight lips.

 

not sure exactly about the rules of staff, but Pat Quinn and the Cancuks got in trouble because he signed in Vancouver while he was stilll LA coach.

One of the many reason the Canucks don't catch a break with the league

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I think he’s going to Edmonton,.  I wonder if he has had conversations with them already,.  

Regardless,  If he knows he is not resigning,.  He knows what opportunities exist elsewhere.

 

Never heard of a Scout going into Free Agency before.    How far does the tampering bylaws stretch in contracts with staff?

 This just has a feel of Non disclosure, and tight lips.

 

Well in normal years staff that have access to draft lists that move to different teams are not allowed to participate in that draft for the new team.  It is a condition on allowing them out of their contract to pursue other opportunities.

 

In this case though, Brackett’s contract will be up before the draft (assuming we don’t do it in June).... so theoretically he can take his knowledge anywhere.  It is a small league so doing that would be career suicide probably.

 

I actually think Seattle could be a landing spot for him.  If he gets a Director role ok another team, I can also see him taking some of our other scouts with him.  If all the regional scouts are getting over ruled by Benning and Weisbrod, then why not move somewhere else where you get a bigger say.  It is a lot of miles and hours away from the family to see a player a couple of dozen times and scouts want to be able to show successes to keep their careers going.

[10pavelbure96]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:57 PM, Fred65 said:

I enjoyed this article

 

Weisbrod was responsible for the blockbuster trade of disgruntled superstar Tracy McGrady. In a 7-player deal which sent McGrady, Juwan Howard, Tyronn Lue, and Reece Gaines to the Houston Rockets, the Magic received erratic point guard Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato. Weisbrod received written death threats from fans on different occasions following this transaction.

 

Man that's getting pretty serious

Not surprised. People in florida are crazy 

[10pavelbure96]

All we have to talk about is scouts. Ugh. Bring back sports

[theo5789]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

Well in normal years staff that have access to draft lists that move to different teams are not allowed to participate in that draft for the new team.  It is a condition on allowing them out of their contract to pursue other opportunities.

 

In this case though, Brackett’s contract will be up before the draft (assuming we don’t do it in June).... so theoretically he can take his knowledge anywhere.  It is a small league so doing that would be career suicide probably.

 

I actually think Seattle could be a landing spot for him.  If he gets a Director role ok another team, I can also see him taking some of our other scouts with him.  If all the regional scouts are getting over ruled by Benning and Weisbrod, then why not move somewhere else where you get a bigger say.  It is a lot of miles and hours away from the family to see a player a couple of dozen times and scouts want to be able to show successes to keep their careers going.

Interesting because Benning has made a point of praising his team of scouts. He's often saying how "we" got the player they wanted. From what I gather, it seems this "fanbase" is suggesting Brackett is the single positive aspect of the drafting alone and his loss will be a major detriment and therefore taking away from all the work that the rest of scouting staff has done. And yet now the scouts want to leave here as well despite Benning actually praising the team while Brackett is getting the brunt of the credit by media and alike?

[lmm]

40 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Interesting because Benning has made a point of praising his team of scouts. He's often saying how "we" got the player they wanted. From what I gather, it seems this "fanbase" is suggesting Brackett is the single positive aspect of the drafting alone and his loss will be a major detriment and therefore taking away from all the work that the rest of scouting staff has done. And yet now the scouts want to leave here as well despite Benning actually praising the team while Brackett is getting the brunt of the credit by media and alike?

I  think that is one way of looking at things. But don't you find it a little funny that Jim is not offering Judd a raise?

I would think if Jim was praising his staff, the staff would expect a raise, or promotion.

It certainly works that way with the players.

Everyone on the team is expecting a raise, but some fans think Stetcher might not get one, Is Judd Brackett the equivalent of Troy Stetcher?

 

I see some of the fan base that seem to feel Brackett is the brains and about an equal number of fans that think Jim should just "Drive Judd to the airport"

But I see a larger number of fans who see this as a needless power struggle that will likely do more damage than good for the team.

This seems like a consolidation of power between Benning and Weisbrod. 

I think the "we" you are talking about happened 2 years ago, when Quinn Hughes was drafted, reports are things have gone south starting last draft, Did you hear a "we" comment about 2019 picks? And maybe the "we" was Jim and Weisbrod.

The reports I have read are more along the line of,"Things are getting out of hand in vancouver, and that is not  good"

If I was writing, the question i would ask, "Why, and why now?"

What I find interesting, is that the people who are staunchly supporting Benning seem to support "old School" management, like Toe Blake or Punch Imlach, real "My way or the High-way" type guys. The irony is that Benning is promoting a "new wave" type of management with 2 head scouts at the top and neither seem all that interested in being the GM or moving to President. The two ideologies seem incongruent.

Now I am fine with innovative ways of managing the team, I supported much of what Gillis tried to do, OK not making Lou Captain, but sleep doctors and such I was oK with. Not his drafting though, Jim has Gillis hands down on drafting, but their trades and signings are about equal. 

 

So maybe Judd is redundant as the 3rd scout, would it make more sense to me to hire a guy that can make trades?

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, lmm said:

I see some of the fan base that seem to feel Brackett is the brains and about an equal number of fans that think Jim should just "Drive Judd to the airport"

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Who exactly is suggesting a "Drive Judd to the airport" approach? Feel free to show the quotes.

 

I don't think anybody is suggesting him potentially moving on wouldn't be a loss. But good people move on from good companies all the time and his loss, if it happens, won't be insurmountable. The guy who helped make him the good scout he is, is still in charge.

 

6 hours ago, lmm said:

What I find interesting, is that the people who are staunchly supporting Benning seem to support "old School" management, like Toe Blake or Punch Imlach, real "My way or the High-way" type guys. 

Likewise, I'd love to know how people calling out the hyperbole, conjecture and melodrama being vomited out by our more desperate than usual media, is somehow being painted as 'staunchly supporting Benning'?

[Toews]

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Who exactly is suggesting a "Drive Judd to the airport" approach? Feel free to show the quotes.

Agreed, it just as hyperbolic as saying that the other side of the argument believes there is a "grand drama", "sky is falling" etc.

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't think anybody is suggesting him potentially moving on wouldn't be a loss. But good people move on from good companies all the time and his loss, if it happens, won't be insurmountable. The guy who helped make him the good scout he is, is still in charge.

Nobody can "make" someone. Brackett has done the low level grunt work as a scout and risen up in the ranks, part of his rise can be attributed to Benning but more of it should be given to the President of Hockey Ops at the time Linden. Lets keep in mind that it was Trevor that preceded Jim getting hired and it Trevor who was in charge of overseeing the entire operation. Even then success is often two-fold, opportunity and ability. You can empower someone but if they don't have the ability, they cannot get the job done and vice versa. Based on everything I have heard from Linden after he resigned, Brackett was given the opportunity to run the scouting staff and he has excelled in that role. It was clear that Linden thought that Judd had an excellent eye for talent. Like I said earlier, a terrible loss. How many great scouts has this organization produced in its existence? 

 

Scouting is a collaborative effort and decisions are made collectively. You are clearly trying to diminish any value that Brackett brought the table by attributing his success to Benning. I find it just as disingenuous as those who give Brackett all of the credit for Petersson, Hughes, et al.

14 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Likewise, I'd love to know how people calling out the hyperbole, conjecture and melodrama being vomited out by our more desperate than usual media, is somehow being painted as 'staunchly supporting Benning'?

As opposed to you who cannot criticize any move this organization makes and needs to search for a justification to excuse everything? Sorry but I think as someone brought up, you are doing the same song and dance Trump supporters do when confronted with news that is inconvenient to their belief system. They just keep bleating the same mantra over and over again. "Its all fake news"...

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

Agreed, it just as hyperbolic as saying that the other side of the argument believes there is a "grand drama", "sky is falling" etc.

Sorry but some people are painting it as far more melodramatic than it likely is in reality.

 

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

Nobody can "make" someone. Brackett has done the low level grunt work as a scout and risen up in the ranks, part of his rise can be attributed to Benning but more of it should be given to the President of Hockey Ops at the time Linden. Lets keep in mind that it was Trevor that preceded Jim getting hired and it Trevor who was in charge of overseeing the entire operation. Even then success is often two-fold, opportunity and ability. You can empower someone but if they don't have the ability, they cannot get the job done and vice versa. Based on everything I have heard from Linden after he resigned, Brackett was given the opportunity to run the scouting staff and he has excelled in that role. It was clear that Linden thought that Judd had an excellent eye for talent. Like I said earlier, a terrible loss. How many great scouts has this organization produced in its existence? 

Brackett's own words credited Benning for transforming how he and the team scouts.

 

Again, that's not taking away anything from Brackett's own ability, which I've maintained this entire time. But his drafting history prior to Benning's arrival and guidance was not ground breaking. Benning helped make him a better scout by his own admission. 

 

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

As opposed to you who cannot criticize any move this organization makes and needs to search for a justification to excuse everything? Sorry but I think as someone brought up, you are doing the same song and dance Trump supporters do when confronted with news that is inconvenient to their belief system. They just keep bleating the same mantra over and over again. "Its all fake news"...

I criticize where I think appropriate. I was staunchly against the Eriksson signing when it was but a mere rumor right through the signing (though I do understand the motive). I dislike their continued use of the constipated whale logo.

 

You (like many others) mistake my agreement with the majority of moves and/or my understanding of motives as (even when unpopular) as blind loyalty. That's your issue, not mine.

[Toews]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sorry but some people are painting it as far more melodramatic than it likely is in reality.

I haven't seen it that way but to use your words against you... Feel free to show the quotes.

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Brackett's own words credited Benning for transforming how he and the team scouts.

 

Again, that's not taking away anything from Brackett's own ability, which I've maintained this entire time. But his drafting history prior to Benning's arrival and guidance was not ground breaking. Benning helped make him a better scout by his own admission. 

He was a low level scout before Linden became President. He wasn't put in a situation where had enough control to make "ground breaking" decisions. Sure Benning and Linden both deserve credit for Brackett's rise but that doesn't change who Brackett is right now, where he is recognized as one of the most successful scouts in the league.

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I criticize where I think appropriate. I was staunchly against the Eriksson signing when it was but a mere rumor right through the signing (though I do understand the motive). I dislike their continued use of the constipated whale logo.

 

You (like many others) mistake my agreement with the majority of moves and/or my understanding of motives as (even when unpopular) as blind loyalty. That's your issue, not mine.

"understanding the motive" is just paraphrasing my point that you can find a justification for everything. The more objective position would be to criticize the motive. Why does a rebuilding  team need to sign a 30+ year UFA to a 6x6 deal? I have been on this board long enough to know that you are allergic to such criticism. 

[JM_]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sorry but some people are painting it as far more melodramatic than it likely is in reality.

 

Brackett's own words credited Benning for transforming how he and the team scouts.

 

Again, that's not taking away anything from Brackett's own ability, which I've maintained this entire time. But his drafting history prior to Benning's arrival and guidance was not ground breaking. Benning helped make him a better scout by his own admission. 

 

I criticize where I think appropriate. I was staunchly against the Eriksson signing when it was but a mere rumor right through the signing (though I do understand the motive). I dislike their continued use of the constipated whale logo.

 

You (like many others) mistake my agreement with the majority of moves and/or my understanding of motives as (even when unpopular) as blind loyalty. That's your issue, not mine.

one other aspect to this is NHL clubs are more like the size of a small family business, they really aren't large organizations at all. So personality issues are going to flare up and maybe be magnified more than in a larger company. Add to that there are a tiny amount of front office jobs in the league and if you want to progress you probably won't be able to do that with the same organization. There doesn't need to be a blame game or bad actors, but some people just seem to have the need for that narrative. 

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, lmm said:

I  think that is one way of looking at things. But don't you find it a little funny that Jim is not offering Judd a raise?

I would think if Jim was praising his staff, the staff would expect a raise, or promotion.

It certainly works that way with the players.

Everyone on the team is expecting a raise, but some fans think Stetcher might not get one, Is Judd Brackett the equivalent of Troy Stetcher?

 

I see some of the fan base that seem to feel Brackett is the brains and about an equal number of fans that think Jim should just "Drive Judd to the airport"

But I see a larger number of fans who see this as a needless power struggle that will likely do more damage than good for the team.

This seems like a consolidation of power between Benning and Weisbrod. 

I think the "we" you are talking about happened 2 years ago, when Quinn Hughes was drafted, reports are things have gone south starting last draft, Did you hear a "we" comment about 2019 picks? And maybe the "we" was Jim and Weisbrod.

The reports I have read are more along the line of,"Things are getting out of hand in vancouver, and that is not  good"

If I was writing, the question i would ask, "Why, and why now?"

What I find interesting, is that the people who are staunchly supporting Benning seem to support "old School" management, like Toe Blake or Punch Imlach, real "My way or the High-way" type guys. The irony is that Benning is promoting a "new wave" type of management with 2 head scouts at the top and neither seem all that interested in being the GM or moving to President. The two ideologies seem incongruent.

Now I am fine with innovative ways of managing the team, I supported much of what Gillis tried to do, OK not making Lou Captain, but sleep doctors and such I was oK with. Not his drafting though, Jim has Gillis hands down on drafting, but their trades and signings are about equal. 

 

So maybe Judd is redundant as the 3rd scout, would it make more sense to me to hire a guy that can make trades?

Brackett has been promoted to director of amateur scouting with a raise attached surely. He's doing a good job that he's been put into. By the same accounts that he isn't getting a raise, apparently Brackett isn't looking for a raise, so this is a supposedly a moot point anyway.

 

There is another group that wants Brackett to stay, but doesn't feel that we will be crippled if he does leave. There isn't simply a big divide of extremes.

 

The "we" comments also included Benning patting Judd on the back on a draft floor video. Along with him praising his scouting team in other means.

 

Redundant as a 3rd scout continues to go along the trend that many are discrediting the entire scouting staff as a whole and putting the sole emphasis on singular people. This is unlike what Benning has demonstrated amongst the public. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

Canucks were rumored to be interested in Mike Futa before they hired Jim Benning in 2014.

 

Not saying he would be Judd's replacement, but Judd isn't the only draft connoisseur in the league.  Mike Futa's drafting for the Kings in the last 5-6 years has allowed LA to have one of the best prospect pools.

Wouldn't be surprised if Canucks approached him too if what they say is true that the relationship with Judd is heading for a divorce 

[Fred65]

31 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

 

Canucks were rumored to be interested in Mike Futa before they hired Jim Benning in 2014.

 

Not saying he would be Judd's replacement, but Judd isn't the only draft connoisseur in the league.  Mike Futa's drafting for the Kings in the last 5-6 years has allowed LA to have one of the best prospect pools.

Wouldn't be surprised if Canucks approached him too if what they say is true that the relationship with Judd is heading for a divorce 

I had a glance at the Ontario Reigns roster and I don't see any outstanding prospects. The team is low in AHL  the standings. Certainly nothing there to encourage me. Other than word of mouth how are we to judge the guy. Maybe a friend on current management, maybe a chap that bows to authority. I'm interested to know what he bring rather than Eliot Friedman 

 

Here's their draft record

 

http://canucks.ice.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?year=All&round=All&team=LAK&supl=N

Edited May 11, 2020 by Fred65

[Baratheon]

21 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I had a glance at the Ontario Reigns roster and I don't see any outstanding prospects. The team is low in AHL  the standings. Certainly nothing there to encourage me. Other than word of mouth how are we to judge the guy. Maybe a friend on current management, maybe a chap that bows to authority. I'm interested to know what he bring rather than Eliot Friedman 

 

Here's their draft record

 

http://canucks.ice.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?year=All&round=All&team=LAK&supl=N

I am not super familiar with a lot of the names either.  There does seem to be a consensus around the league however, that LA had one of the deepest prospect pools out there.

 

https://www.nhl.com/kings/news/la-kings-prospect-pool-ranked-1-in-nhl-by-the-athletic/c-314918132

 

Just an example.

[theo5789]

18 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I had a glance at the Ontario Reigns roster and I don't see any outstanding prospects. The team is low in AHL  the standings. Certainly nothing there to encourage me. Other than word of mouth how are we to judge the guy. Maybe a friend on current management, maybe a chap that bows to authority. I'm interested to know what he bring rather than Eliot Friedman 

 

Here's their draft record

 

http://canucks.ice.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?year=All&round=All&team=LAK&supl=N

Looks like he was director from amateur scouting from 2007-2014 and likely had some involvement beyond that after being promoted. Their 2 Cups won in 2012 and 2014 have been teams that were largely drafted prospects.

 

In 2007, they got Simmonds (late 2nd), Martinez and Dwight King (4th rounders).

 

In 2008, they got an easy one in Doughty, Voynov (2nd, yes we know what happened, but he was still a decent player) and Loktionov (5th rounder)

 

In 2009, they got Brayden Schenn (1st), Clifford (2nd), Deslauriers (3rd, still in the NHL), Vey (4th, potentially could've had a better career if not for off ice issues), Jordan Nolan and Nic Dowd (7th rounders).

 

In 2010, they got Toffoli (2nd), Weal (3rd).

 

In 2011, Andreoff (3rd)

 

In 2012, Pearson (1st), Colin Miller (5th)

 

In 2013, Kubalik (7th, standing out in Chicago right now)

 

In 2014, Kempe (1st), Amadio (3rd)

 

There were other players that had cups of coffee in the NHL (if getting to the NHL is a benchmark). A decent track record where they started finding less players when the team got better, but were still able to squeeze out some later round hits.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just putting my 2 cents in here...……...

 

I have worked in a federal government agency for 40 years

 

I must say that for the most part as people came and went, the operation did not change much, and even when someone came in with new ideas, it usually turned around that the realities of the business, change them to thinking much like the past employees/managers

 

This is much the same with the Canucks, as most moves have been circumstantial over the past decade. with most moves dependant on where we were in the standings, this is much the same for Benning and Bracket, and where they drafted, and who was available at that position and what the need for the Canucks were.

 

My point to this is that, generally, the draft has an order, where people do not go far off the natural order, and for the most part, when they do, it backfires on them. Yes, you will always get the dud, and yes you may find a diamond in the rough, but mostly, the law of averages says, you normally get the type of player available at that position on a historical basis.

 

Now, Benning runs the ship, and it is his structure that has guided us to our current position. The Virtanen pick, is my only question, as to whether Aqualini had any input, and the remainder, would have been a team effort where there either was a team consensus, or someone was so convinced that a certain player was better, that Benning had to decide which way to go, depending on the argument and how adamant the scout or scouting team was. But in the end, it always comes down to Benning, especially on first round picks.

 

That is not to say, that Benning did not weigh Judd's words very carefully...……..

 

My point is...……...Benning built it, Benning can break it. And that is not to say, that others lower than Judd, did not learn and are not ready to step up.

 

I believe that the system that JB and Judd have built, will survive one way or another. Personally, I would love to keep Judd here, but if he goes, I don't expect a huge difference in picks.

[SilentSam]

13 hours ago, Provost said:

Well in normal years staff that have access to draft lists that move to different teams are not allowed to participate in that draft for the new team.  It is a condition on allowing them out of their contract to pursue other opportunities.

 

In this case though, Brackett’s contract will be up before the draft (assuming we don’t do it in June).... so theoretically he can take his knowledge anywhere.  It is a small league so doing that would be career suicide probably.

 

I actually think Seattle could be a landing spot for him.  If he gets a Director role ok another team, I can also see him taking some of our other scouts with him.  If all the regional scouts are getting over ruled by Benning and Weisbrod, then why not move somewhere else where you get a bigger say.  It is a lot of miles and hours away from the family to see a player a couple of dozen times and scouts want to be able to show successes to keep their careers going.

Seattle makes sense,..  and allows him to diplomatically sit out this year’s draft and avoid any league binding repercussions that may exist.

... and we move on..

If there was actually hockey being played I doubt if all of this gets the hype that it is,  the Canucks organization has had the luxury of picking in, or close to the top ten at the draft for a number of years now..  Joulevi has really been the only set back , but hopefully growing out of it, and having a good show this fall.