Burrows? Do We Really Need Him?

[-DLC-]

Well Tootoo would be one hell of a liar and the worst kind of scum if it's not true. If there's an investigation and third parties like the guys who ran the penalty box say it never happened then I'll stand corrected. But I believe there's a 90% chance that what Burrows said was pretty ugly.

Again...Tootoo was already pissed at that point.  So a remark that set him off?  Could have been something fairly innocuous but he's now trying to justify his actions.  Could have been something directed at his wife in a "tell kelly I say hi" way.  Some guys really don't take kindly to that.

 

But of course, people will jump to conclusions and imagine the worst.  I'm just saying keep it in perspective:  opponents...heated exchange...tight game and the guy who just unleashed it had just had a goal scored on him and he was at least partly responsible for that.  Both teams were giving it to one another so I just don't like that one suddenly is guilty but all the rest innocent.  That we're taking the focus OFF the guy who, prior to game play, started a fight.  That's the first thing to address...the why's really don't justify it.

 

But, just in case I'll be ready for Burr to get a 2 year suspension for "saying words" and for Tootoo to be promoted to head of Player Safety, Ethics and Integrity Divison.  Because, well, nothing surprises me anymore.

 

Anyhow, until there's something to actually see here, there's not much to see here.  Sun is shining, have a good one y'all.  Peace.

Edited November 9, 2015 by debluvscanucks

[canuck73_3]

If Burr did indeed go there That is an embarrassment to him the Canucks and the league. I'd hope he'd stand toe to toe against Tootoo in the rematch and take his well deserved fists to the face. Unacceptable if true 

[alt kilgore]

That's not true at all. If Daniel Sedin went out today and said the n word or someone talked smack about Rypien then I'd be all over them too. On the flip side, there seems to be a lot wishing and hoping for Tootoo to screw up so that we can confirm that once a screw up, always a screw up. 

Well Tootoo would be one hell of a liar and the worst kind of scum if it's not true. If there's an investigation and third parties like the guys who ran the penalty box say it never happened then I'll stand corrected. But I believe there's a 90% chance that what Burrows said was pretty ugly.

Even IF Burrows said everything Tootoo claims, and we still don't know exactly what is alleged,  I still stand by my point that, uncomfortable to hear, those kinds of jabs happen on the ice. And I'm sure it wasn't all one way. Those who have never played in the intensity of professional hockey do not understand that its like entering another world, the same rules do not apply. Just consider the physical game. Obviously if you ran at someone and "boarded" them against a wall and they fell down injured, you'd be in trouble. It is a two minute penalty in hockey. Even a vicious head shot, or slash that breaks bones, can only be 5 minutes in the box.

The same is true about verbal abuse.  Take the example from above of "Tell Kelly I said hi".  Do you honestly think a player would repeat that if it was off the ice, say at a players fund raiser, or charity golf game? Players (including Tootoo) understand that much of on ice banter is just that, banter. It does not reflect the players actual beliefs outside the rink. They pick a topic that would most upset the opponent they want to destabilize. They are grown men.  If this part of hockey upsets you, then find another hobby.

Tootoo did the right thing, at first. He challenged, or tried to challenge Burrows on the ice physically. (He doesn't have the wit to fight back verbally). More talented players might score a goal. That's where it should have ended, as it does most every other time this happens between players in a game. Its so obvious that the only reason he made this claim publicly, whether true, exaggerated, misunderstood, or just plain made up, was because he was facing yet another, in a long line of, suspensions.  Boo hoo.

[Rocksterh8]

We need to keep Burr because of his mouth! He is one of the few that can talk trash in two languages. Love this guy!

[poetica]

I don't know what Burr said, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't, "Hey, friend, after this game is over we should do coffee." I'm sure he was rude. Likewise, I don't know what Tootoo said to Burr, but I'd bet my rent money it wasn't even in the same postal code as, "You hurt my feelings with what you said. You're a meanie!'"

So, yeah, they were both probably being deliberately hurtful. (That is, after all, the very simple idea behind trash talk. Otherwise, what's the point?) Still, it's not fair to jump to the conclusion that Burr said anything beyond the run of the mill "Dude, your wife's so ugly I wouldn't..." crap that usually gets said. Maybe he did, but we don't have anything beyond a vague accusation. And while it's entirely unfair to use his history as an alcoholic as proof that Tootoo isn't a trustworthy source, it is fair to use his own hockey related behavior.

Remember, this is the guy about whom Getzlaf said (in 2011), "I’m tired of watching Jordin Tootoo out there, a guy who runs around and hits and does everything else but the first little slash, he’s laying on the ice and he’s out the next shift."

And the guy that way back in 2009, The Hockey Writers said he was the 8th dirtiest player in the league.

And the guy who, despite his claim that he thinks guys should fight their own battles, sucker punched Dorsett while he was already engage in a battle with another guy. After, Dorsett said, "Tootoo was just being himself, being the cheap player that he is and coming in swinging." (So I'm sure that played a big part in Dorsett's reactions last night.)

And then, of course, there was the time he charged Miller right after he came back from the Lucic "legal" hit. (And likely, Lucic was heard laughing when Tootoo was suspended.)

It's been well established that fighting is not obligatory in the NHL. I don't know why Tootoo got so upset with Burrows, but I do know that if Tootoo himself has no problem stepping in for other people, he should have no problem with another known fighter stepping in for a guy who rarely gets into more than a fight or 2 during a season. (Though to be fair, I'm not even sure when he claims to have challenged Burr. That fight with Dorsett didn't start with Tootoo doing anything other than crap disturbing right off the bench. He gave Burr a light tap from behind, but kept his eyes on Dorsett and willingly engaged in a fight with him. There was no challenge to Burr. Maybe he meant sometime later...)

I do know, however, that when the refs have to keep you from hitting a guy already on the ice and you still pull the guy back up by his head, turning him around so you can attack from behind AND when one of your teammates starts a fight with a 19-year-old rookie and then skates around the rink pounding his chest like he just won a MMA fight, you might want to watch those "classless" accusations. Some of them might fall at your feet.

[thema]

I see what your saying, but there are other reasons for lying to embarrass someone else outside of hockey.  We don't know, and that's my point.  Tootoo has done nothing in his life or career to earn this level of trust. 

...and Burrows has?

[Slegr]

This could have all been avoided if the Canucks would have picked up Tootoo awhile ago. He's still effective and brings the passion.

My gut says Tootoo isn't lying, and if so, it's unfortunate, because it won't help Burrows' rep and it would be in pretty poor taste.

Still, I'll continue to cheer for Burrows. I think the only real solution here is to get Tootoo on the team so they cause the ultimate havoc on 'the chaos line!'

[Pickly]

There's no way Tootoo would fabricate this story. At least I don't think so. I hope an investigation ensues so the truth comes out and it gets rectified.  

[TheGuardian_]

Oh, go take pill and have another drink ya goof.

Edited November 9, 2015 by TheGuardian_

[Heretic]

Bottom line is, this isn't the first time Burrows has done something to embarrass the Canucks.

 

 

[Blueberries]

Tootoo crying to the media now lmao scrub.

[bigbadcanucks]

Here's my take on the whole Burr v. Toot incident...

Burr's a rat...Toot's a rat.  Burr's our rat.  So we love him.  Toot's someone else's rat, so we hate him. 

Both have made an effort to reform.  Burr on the ice...Toot off the ice.  Sometimes reformers slide back and go back to their tried and tested ways.  Nothing wrong with that in the game of hockey (unless your name is Matt Cooke or Sean Avery or Bryan Marchment -- this is a personal prejudice I can't get over...sorry for that).

Things get said...used to be that it was inside the glass.  Now in the world of "all-access, reality TV", everything gets hung out like dirty laundry and if it doesn't, no one really blinks an eye when it gets tossed out there by one person or another except for the the self-professed "purists" who pine for the good ol' days while lapping up Boudreau's rant.

Burr v. Toot is all hockey theater...there's no wrong or right in all this.  Just stuff that has gone on for as long as God has given us hockey.  Did anyone bat an eye when the TV showed Claude Lemieux crying on the ice because an opposing player made fun of him about his wife cheating and taking all his money?   No, coz Claude was a rat.  That's hockey.

There's very few saints in hockey (Sedins may be the last of them).  I thought this was an accepted notion.

Just my two cents.

[Cerridwen]

I don't know what Burr said, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't, "Hey, friend, after this game is over we should do coffee." I'm sure he was rude. Likewise, I don't know what Tootoo said to Burr, but I'd bet my rent money it wasn't even in the same postal code as, "You hurt my feelings with what you said. You're a meanie!'"

So, yeah, they were both probably being deliberately hurtful. (That is, after all, the very simple idea behind trash talk. Otherwise, what's the point?) Still, it's not fair to jump to the conclusion that Burr said anything beyond the run of the mill "Dude, your wife's so ugly I wouldn't..." crap that usually gets said. Maybe he did, but we don't have anything beyond a vague accusation. And while it's entirely unfair to use his history as an alcoholic as proof that Tootoo isn't a trustworthy source, it is fair to use his own hockey related behavior.

Remember, this is the guy about whom Getzlaf said (in 2011), "I’m tired of watching Jordin Tootoo out there, a guy who runs around and hits and does everything else but the first little slash, he’s laying on the ice and he’s out the next shift."

And the guy that way back in 2009, The Hockey Writers said he was the 8th dirtiest player in the league.

And the guy who, despite his claim that he thinks guys should fight their own battles, sucker punched Dorsett while he was already engage in a battle with another guy. After, Dorsett said, "Tootoo was just being himself, being the cheap player that he is and coming in swinging." (So I'm sure that played a big part in Dorsett's reactions last night.)

And then, of course, there was the time he charged Miller right after he came back from the Lucic "legal" hit. (And likely, Lucic was heard laughing when Tootoo was suspended.)

It's been well established that fighting is not obligatory in the NHL. I don't know why Tootoo got so upset with Burrows, but I do know that if Tootoo himself has no problem stepping in for other people, he should have no problem with another known fighter stepping in for a guy who rarely gets into more than a fight or 2 during a season. (Though to be fair, I'm not even sure when he claims to have challenged Burr. That fight with Dorsett didn't start with Tootoo doing anything other than crap disturbing right off the bench. He gave Burr a light tap from behind, but kept his eyes on Dorsett and willingly engaged in a fight with him. There was no challenge to Burr. Maybe he meant sometime later...)

I do know, however, that when the refs have to keep you from hitting a guy already on the ice and you still pull the guy back up by his head, turning him around so you can attack from behind AND when one of your teammates starts a fight with a 19-year-old rookie and then skates around the rink pounding his chest like he just won a MMA fight, you might want to watch those "classless" accusations. Some of them might fall at your feet.

Well said, thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2015 by Cerridwen

[Outsiders]

Ok Tootoo Burrows apparently said something about your family. Now I'm sure you just sat there and said ouch burrows that isn't nice man you should stop. Tootoo probably crossed the line and said something too. Good on Burrows for leaving it on the ice

[hammertime]

game within the game  im sure burr said something out of line ..... Don't care its not like Tootoo is a lady bing candidate he is a scum bag.

[skategal]

I doubt we'll ever hear the full story, probably we shouldn't.  (Unless Burr writes a book someday )  It may be that the NHL will investigate, but they likely wouldn't share the outcome of that investigation.  I hope that whatever Burrows said wasn't a slur on Tootoo's brother's suicide or his alcohol issues, but he's the one who has to live with what he says.  The rest of us judge based on speculation and his past antics.  He's in good company within the NHL in not fitting into the "saint" category.  The heat of the action causes otherwise likeable people to do some things they may never do in other less heated circumstances.

[*Buzzsaw*]

This Tootoo cr*p is a diversion from the real point of this thread... instigated by the Burrows haters who look for any excuse to stick a knife in.

Burrows is a valuable player on the Canucks... the majority of the fans love him, all his team mates do too.

The guys on the other teams... of course they don't.

He gets no respect, despite the fact he has scored 35 goals in a league, four times scored more than 25, and is defensively superb.  Not to mention he bailed the Canucks out personally in the 2010 Stanley Cup run by putting a knife in the Black Hawks heart... this guy deserves a career pass from Canucks fans for that AT THE VERY LEAST.

So those haters... GIVE IT A FREAKIN' BREAK.

[Jack Fig]

This Tootoo cr*p is a diversion from the real point of this thread... instigated by the Burrows haters who look for any excuse to stick a knife in.

Burrows is a valuable player on the Canucks... the majority of the fans love him, all his team mates do too.

The guys on the other teams... of course they don't.

He gets no respect, despite the fact he has scored 35 goals in a league, four times scored more than 25, and is defensively superb.  Not to mention he bailed the Canucks out personally in the 2010 Stanley Cup run by putting a knife in the Black Hawks heart... this guy deserves a career pass from Canucks fans for that AT THE VERY LEAST.

So those haters... GIVE IT A FREAKIN' BREAK.

So why is it that he gets no respect? Any ideas? 

[Kevin Biestra]

So why is it that he gets no respect? Any ideas? 

He pulled hair once and he bit a guy's glove once.

What do we all remember Marty McSorley's career for?

[ice orca]

Has the NHL said anything about this incident yet?