theminister Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Kesler got a look at his potential new team-mates last night and changed his mind, decided to stick around. This group isn't done. How do you think Kes would like playing for Hitchcock? That's a good way to kill his numbers for a big contract renewal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 How do you think Kes would like playing for Hitchcock? That's a good way to kill his numbers for a big contract renewal. I dunno, maybe Steen and Schwartz could help his numbers, but for me, now, the question becomes how would Luo like playing for Hitchcock? (sorry Lu, can't help myself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 So, your rebuttal. And please do this time include facts or at least a solid argument why he wouldn't waive for Columbus. Because this endless "opinion only" argument crap is getting old when you attempt to be high and mighty about it Post #718 succinctly summarizes the point at issue. As far as facts go, I'll definitely agree that Columbus is a bubble playoff team now, and maybe even for the next year or two. I'll also with Kesler's history in Ohio because that is factual as well. But based on these facts, your claim that this indicates a move to Columbus is agreeable with Kesler, in argumentative terms is a non-sequitur. Sure, it sounds like it all follows, but as post 718 states, it isn't necessarily the case. So as a matter of argumentation, there is reason to believe either my argument or yours could be true, of course all depending on what happens with Kesler. I'm fine with that because I know all I am offering is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Wayne Gretzky is a generational talent. Bobby Orr is a generational talent. Sidney Crosby is a generational talent. Ryan Kesler is just a really good two-way center and there are plenty of them around (Toews, Getzlaf, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetteberg, Bergeron, Backes, etc are all better). As much as I adore the guy (I've got his jersey on my back right now), you're not going to get a king's ransom for him. We should be happy if we can get something close to Carter/Richards for him (which will be tough, as he's older than they were when those trades went down). Just a really good two way center? Look, puck skills and offense separate Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They are elite offensive players that also play great defense. Bergeron has been clutch and teams never go backwards with him on the ice. But I imagine Crosby might have scored more playing with someone who has better offensive upside. Toews IMO is the cream of the two way crop. Hard to put Kesler above these guys. But he belongs because of the defensive context and the warrior like nature with which he approaches the game. Kesler's distinction is the combination of the speed, power and intensity he brings. There is no physical match up a team need to fear when they play him. Add the fearlessness with which he blocks shots. And this next related point makes him a generational player; he is a motor everyone else he plays with has to match. Backes cant match all of that, its why Kess was the top center for the US the last two Olympics. Funny how no ones mentioning the Blues as a possibility. Something like: Berglund, Rattie, and a 1st. Highly interesting package. Rattie is a risk though, not a blue chip cant miss guy. I think comparing him to Shinkaruk (similar players ?) is probably more fair than saying he might be automatically our 2knd best prospect. I admit he might bust open. But he might not. My real issue with the deal is Berglund. Look, great player! Swedish Olympian. Nothing wrong with the value of the suggestion at all. And teams are trending to these two way guys to anchor their team (hell why is Kesler interesting, St Louis a threat...). I just feel we have sooooo many two way guys now. All of our D. Our upcoming centers (Horvat, Gaunce, Cassels). Guys the Twins are getting older, we let Errhof go. Just my opinion, but I'd like the signature return to be a guy everyone fears when the puck is on his stick. Our team is evolving into one that dumps the puck into the corner and smothers it to maintain possession. What happened to rushing the puck, and breaking guys down with speed and talent? Because we already have two way written all over our line up, and our prospects, we might be forgetting about acquiring guys who truly can make hockey the beautiful game it can be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Post #718 succinctly summarizes the point at issue. As far as facts go, I'll definitely agree that Columbus is a bubble playoff team now, and maybe even for the next year or two. I'll also with Kesler's history in Ohio because that is factual as well. But based on these facts, your claim that this indicates a move to Columbus is agreeable with Kesler, in argumentative terms is a non-sequitur. Sure, it sounds like it all follows, but as post 718 states, it isn't necessarily the case. So as a matter of argumentation, there is reason to believe either my argument or yours could be true, of course all depending on what happens with Kesler. I'm fine with that because I know all I am offering is my opinion. ok fair enough my man. all i was asking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian42 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Columbus is a young team with a bright future so I'm sure they wouldn't want to trade away too much youth. With that being said they could also trade gaborik to make up for some of their loss of assets in a kesler trade. Kesler is signed beyond this year and Gaborik is not. Kesler could be a good fit there and I believe they would make the playoffs with the addition of Kesler depending on what they trade away. It would be nearly impossible for the Canucks to get better in the short term and long term so Gillis shouldn't demand a 25ish yr old 2'nd line centre and instead get the player/s with the highest ceiling in my opinion. The only way I could see the Canucks improving short term & long term is if they get a player in the trade on a entry level contract and reinvest the cap savings of kesler's contract into a ufa for next year. which could be said about any player they trade ex. Edler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Unsurprisingly Kes himself has denied this now and Gillis has given a flat-out answer. Rumour dead Rumour Dead? That's less fun than the gossip mill... Kesler got a look at his potential new team-mates last night and changed his mind, decided to stick around. This group isn't done. Actually, it would be more fun if the rumor was truly dead. I personally want to keep Kesler around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Rumour Dead? That's less fun than the gossip mill... Actually, it would be more fun if the rumor was truly dead. I personally want to keep Kesler around! What's truly dead is the crypt keeper and his reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningWild Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Nick Kypreos @RealKyper 1h Early indication from one #NHL club say #Canucks ask for Kesler may include as many as 3 pieces. A 1st rd pick, roster player/ prospect. Also, Bobby Mac on team 1040 today, discusses many things incl. Kesler. Link (near the end) - "Anyone who thinks that Ryan Kesler has not let it be known to Canucks that he would probably prefer to play elsewhere .... is dreaming in technicolor." Saying everything else is semantics re: when he said this, how he said this. He wants out. - Also discusses Ryan Johansen. Bobs words were basically, "if Johansen's not available. Keslers not going there". Same for any team. Gillis won't give him away, Kesler is valuable despite being injured often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 1h Also, Bobby Mac on team 1040 today, discusses many things incl. Kesler. Link (near the end) - "Anyone who thinks that Ryan Kesler has not let it be known to Canucks that he would probably prefer to play elsewhere .... is dreaming in technicolor." Saying everything else is semantics re: when he said this, how he said this. He wants out. - Also discusses Ryan Johansen. Bobs words were basically, "if Johansen's not available. Keslers not going there". Same for any team. Gillis won't give him away, Kesler is valuable despite being injured often. Roster player, prospect, 1st. Kesler should get nothing less than that or as mentioned if Johansen is available. IMHO if Kesler is going to Columbus either Johansen (straight up) or Ryan Murray (in a package) have to be coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Roster player, prospect, 1st. Kesler should get nothing less than that or as mentioned if Johansen is available. IMHO if Kesler is going to Columbus either Johansen (straight up) or Ryan Murray (in a package) have to be coming back. Kesler's return: 1st round pick in 2014 or 2015. Solid YOUNG roster player and solid prospect Edler's return: 1st in 2014 or 2015, Solid Prospect Luongo's return: 1st round pick in 2014 or 2015 and a solid prospect drafting top 10 for a season or two based on the teams own merit and by 2016/2017 this team is young hungry full of vets and ready to rip the league up. Hmmm....we don't want that though do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian42 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 what do you guys think of Kesler food Kadri ++? kadri has a pretty good contract this year and next at 2.9 million then RFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Kesler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 what do you guys think of Kesler food Kadri ++? kadri has a pretty good contract this year and next at 2.9 million then RFA Kadri can't hold Kes's jock strap. If Kes gets traded for Kadri, a 1st and a prospect better be coming with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Kadri can't hold Kes's jock strap. If Kes gets traded for Kadri, a 1st and a prospect better be coming with. and the prospect better be morgan rielly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 1h Also, Bobby Mac on team 1040 today, discusses many things incl. Kesler. Link (near the end) - "Anyone who thinks that Ryan Kesler has not let it be known to Canucks that he would probably prefer to play elsewhere .... is dreaming in technicolor." Saying everything else is semantics re: when he said this, how he said this. He wants out. - Also discusses Ryan Johansen. Bobs words were basically, "if Johansen's not available. Keslers not going there". Same for any team. Gillis won't give him away, Kesler is valuable despite being injured often. Right on. Made a discussion thread in proposal section as said practically the same thing. Need a young roster player, top prospect, and 1st/2nd pick for Kesler otherwise we keep the gold. No point in giving him and Edler up if we don't get maximum value cause teams will be dying to get them. Guessing CBJ wants Kes and Nucks basically said gives us one of Johansen, prospect, 2nd or Jenner, Murray, 2nd for Kes otherwise don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Wow, fans continue to fall for TSN's rumor mongering... Did you not learn from the whole Luongo saga that TSN will make up crap to sell their product. Like seriously. Of course they're going to try and keep this rumor alive until deadline day. Gotta drum up interest for their biggest show of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Kesler's return: 1st round pick in 2014 or 2015. Solid YOUNG roster player and solid prospect Edler's return: 1st in 2014 or 2015, Solid Prospect Luongo's return: 1st round pick in 2014 or 2015 and a solid prospect drafting top 10 for a season or two based on the teams own merit and by 2016/2017 this team is young hungry full of vets and ready to rip the league up. Hmmm....we don't want that though do we? I'd love that. If we're thinking about getting the Sedins a Cup before they retire, trading those core pieces for young impact playesr and 1st round picks we'll be loaded for one or two more runs with them by 2016-17, which will be their 2nd to last year of their new contracts. Keeler to Columbus for Murray, 2014 2nd, 2015 1st Edler to the NYI for Pulock, 2014 1st (6th-10th range without JT) Luongo to St. Louis for one of their prospects (Jaskin, Rattie etc.), conditional 1st Potential roster for 2016-17: Sedin - Sedin - Kassian Saad/Shinkaruk - Horvat - Teravainen Shinkaruk/Saad - Gaunce - Jensen Higgins - Lain - Burrows Murray - Tanev Hamhuis - Pulock Stanton - Bieksa/Corrado Lack Eriksson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Right on. Made a discussion thread in proposal section as said practically the same thing. Need a young roster player, top prospect, and 1st/2nd pick for Kesler otherwise we keep the gold. No point in giving him and Edler up if we don't get maximum value cause teams will be dying to get them. Guessing CBJ wants Kes and Nucks basically said gives us one of Johansen, prospect, 2nd or Jenner, Murray, 2nd for Kes otherwise don't bother. Id be good with a Kesler and Gaunce for Johanson and a 2nd. Or Kesler for Murray. Keslers value is high... Id like Morgan Rilley from Toronto as well if a decent forward came with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Wow, fans continue to fall for TSN's rumor mongering... Did you not learn from the whole Luongo saga that TSN will make up crap to sell their product. Like seriously. Of course they're going to try and keep this rumor alive until deadline day. Gotta drum up interest for their biggest show of the year. why would louis jean lie? why would bruce arthur? even though i rarely agree with your opinions, you seem like an intelligent enough person. why are you choosing to gobble up the lies spoonfed to you by gillis? where there's this much smoke seen by this many different legitimate hockey people, there's almost certainly fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 why would louis jean lie? why would bruce arthur? even though i rarely agree with your opinions, you seem like an intelligent enough person. why are you choosing to gobble up the lies spoonfed to you by gillis? where there's this much smoke seen by this many different legitimate hockey people, there's almost certainly fire. In the same 42 years I have learned that the media also make smoke and fire. For every example of a trade that was first reported in rumour, I can supply an example of a rumour that died on the vine. Sometimes when there's smoke, it's just a steaming pile of dog crap on cold winter morning. ..okay, so gillis could be lying, but so is Kesler and his agent lying also? They both said the same thing that it's false...you should come to realization media does that to gain attention which gains them hits = revenue. Not the first time they've done this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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