Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[captaincowbasher]

7 hours ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said:

I said it in the summer and got blasted for it right here in this thread. Virtanen is nowhere near worth a 6th overall pick not even close, if you continue to defend him at this point you are a big time Homer.

It is time to stop defending him and time for him to actually start playing well. He has played bad since he drafted him. He should be dominating this tournament, he should be Canada's best player, yet he is nowhere close

You are 100% correct.

[Stormriders]

7 hours ago, MJDDawg said:

I really like Jake, and I realize that most of the Canadian team was invisible today, but he doesn't even seem to be able to do the basics correctly right now. Two plays stand out for me today outside of that nice back check and a shift near the end of the first.

1. Julien Gauthier was screening the Swedish goalie on Marner's goal in the third. It was a perfect screen and the goalie never saw the shot. Jake should take the video of how Gauthier was positioned on the screen and be forced to watch it over and over because Jake doesn't seem to know how to screen a goalie. Every single time he's trying to screen, he's actually standing to the side of the goalie and allowing him to see the shots. 
2. With about four minutes left in the third, Jake takes a nice pass on the wide right side of the Swedish zone and had an opportunity to take it directly to the net. Instead he took the lazy and easy route and did that wide looping thing he likes to do and skates behind the net out wide on the left side now then taking a shot, which of course missed. For a guy of his size, the better play was just taking it straight to the goal off the right wing rush. At worst, trying to jam it in the crease could have at least created a loose puck that another player might have been able to jump on.

I know I know, it's true careers aren't made in the WJC's, but I was at least hoping to see signs of the player we think he can be.

Other than a few hits, he's had no impact in this tourney at all. If JB brings him back to Vancouver instead of sending him to Calgary, is it even possible that he comes back with even less confidence than when he left? Yikes.

I agree, I watched his screening the other day, and again today and thought the same thing.  I originally thought for some reason the coach wanted him playing that way, [for some unknown reason] but it is not effective at all.  Then when Gauthier screened today, and positioned himself properly, he was perfect.  So the question is, why is Jake not being coached to stand directly in front so the goalie can't see the shooter?  This is a coached/learned skill that you would think would be a basic for him; big guy, hard to move, totally screening the goalies ability to see the shot.  It's like he either didn't want to get hit, or he wanted to get the rebound and score himself.  In either case the goalie most times got to see an unobstructed view and made the save [sure there were two goals with him at the side, but he did not screen on either, a distraction at best].

[Gstank29]

5 new pages in 10 hours......

Edited January 1, 2016 by Gstank29

[Stanky Legs]

I was a big fan of Virtanen when drafted but I think he's becoming a Kassian. Big, dumb guy.

[AlphaHoneyBadger]

2 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

You are 100% correct.

You two should go have a love in on another board. We get it, you don't like Jake, now move along. 

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

Times have changed Bud, 18 and 19 year olds are way better off to step in and contribute now then 10 years ago, in fact in many cases forwards are in their prime 21-26 years of age. So no calling a player a "bust" who was picked 6th overall, ahead of guys like, is not dopey. We can all see that he lacks some pretty critical things to be an effective top 6 player in the NHL.

1	7	Carolina	Haydn Fleury	D	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
1	8	Toronto	William Nylander	C	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]
1	9	Winnipeg	Nikolaj Ehlers	L	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]	36	5	7	12	8	2015-16
1	10	Anaheim	Nick Ritchie	L	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	11	0	1	1	4	2015-16
1	11	Nashville	Kevin Fiala	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	1	0	0	0	0	2014-15
1	12	Arizona	Brendan Perlini	L	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]
1	13	Washington	Jakub Vrana	C	Linkopings HC [SweHL]
1	14	Dallas	Julius Honka	D	Swift Current Broncos [WHL]
1	15	Detroit	Dylan Larkin	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	36	13	11	24	20	2015-16
1	16	Columbus	Sonny Milano	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
1	17	Philadelphia	Travis Sanheim	D	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
1	18	Minnesota	Alex Tuch	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
1	19	Tampa Bay	Anthony DeAngelo	D	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
1	20	Chicago	Nick Schmaltz	F	Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]
1	21	St. Louis	Robby Fabbri	C	Guelph Storm [OHL]	33	9	4	13	2	2015-16
1	22	Pittsburgh	Kasperi Kapanen	F	KalPa Kuopio [SM-liiga]
1	23	Colorado	Conner Bleackley	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
1	24	Vancouver	Jared McCann	C	Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]	36	7	4	11	14	2015-16
1	25	Boston	David Pastrnak	L	Sodertalje SK [Swe-1]	56	12	19	31	16	2015-16
1	26	Montreal	Nikita Scherbak	R	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]
1	27	San Jose	Nikolay Goldobin	L	Sarnia Sting [OHL]	9	1	1	2	0	2015-16
1	28	NY Islanders	Josh Ho-Sang	C	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
1	29	Los Angeles	Adrian Kempe	L	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]
1	30	New Jersey	John Quenneville

Thanks for the list but besides Larkin, who else would you want above Virtanen? Yes he hasn't played to his potential but careers are marathons not a sprint. I'm still sticking with my boy. 

[CanucksJay]

The entire Canada team looks pretty awful. We are extra critical of Virtanen because he is Canuck property but when looking through with a critical eye, the only guys that have really impressed me on the team this year are Konecny, and Marner. Even Strome despite some goals have shown that his decision making isn't the greatest. It's not that I'm wearing rose coloured glasses but I just don't think Virtanen has been that bad. I think the discouraging thing is realizing that he isn't able to generate offence on his own and that he will be a complimentary player but I still have faith that he will be a dominant player when paired with the right player. But yes,  he does have a lot of work  to do to improve but I think he will get there. He's got size, speed, strength, shot. Even if he he missing hockey IQ, if he concentrates on learning the bare minimum like positioning on the screen, he will still be an asset to the organization. 

[Cowardrobertford]

34 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Thanks for the list but besides Larkin, who else would you want above Virtanen? Yes he hasn't played to his potential but careers are marathons not a sprint. I'm still sticking with my boy. 

McCann, schmaltz, perlini, sanhiem,nylander, Ehlers, Ritchie

Didn't we want the best or the Local boy

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Wtf, there are at least 14 other players that are doing nothing for team canada,not to mention the entire defence.

[Cowardrobertford]

Just now, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Wtf, there are at least 14 other players that are doing nothing for team canada,not to mention the entire defence.

Can you mention all the 14 players you think are doing nothing for Canada, a team that still is a very good possession team

[Odd.]

There was a time where I wanted us to pick Haydn Fleury as we needed a top pairing defenseman. He went after Virtanen. He'll probably be a solid Jay Bouwmeester type d-man. Definitely wasn't mad with the Virtanen pick at that time, and still even now I like the kid. He's going to be good but one thing is for sure, we need to be patient. It's been said more than enough times but I strongly believe time with Travis Green in Utica as well as Junior time after the WJC will help build his confidence back. Obviously, he's not eligible to go to the A and possibly even next year. When we picked him, I was probably 80% happy, 20% bummed.

Jesse Puljujarvi though.. YUM.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Odd.

[CanucksJay]

5 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said:

McCann, schmaltz, perlini, sanhiem,nylander, Ehlers, Ritchie

Didn't we want the best or the Local boy

We'll good thing we have 1 out of the 7 players listed. (McCann) 

Nylander got smoked going cross ice with his head down. Who knows what the after effects of the concussion will be. I have a feeling it will be guys like Jake knocking him out in the bigs in 3 years) 

Ehlers has slown down. (we are seeing the effects of NHL pros buckling down as the season wears on which is affecting guys like McCann as well) 

I haven't seen anything from Sanhiem or Perlini to suggest they would be better than Jake. 

I admit, Jake may turn out to be a 3rd liner who plays physical and chips in for 15-20 goals.  The thing is, I don't think any of the guys you mentioned are clear cut stars either. The positive is, I think Jake as a 3rd liner is his bare minimum. For the others you mentioned, if they don't produce as a top 6 player, I don't think they can contribute much else to the team. 

So yeah, if we redrafted, out of the players you mentioned, I would be deciding between Ritchie and Virtanen but still go with Virtanen. 

[DeltaSwede]

I said a few days before Jake was kept in the NHL that he shouldn't be there. I think Benning felt his hand was forced since McCann was going to make the team and it would look bad on the Canucks and Jake if the higher drafted player didn't make the team as well.

Jake is a project, he's not a finished product. You can't deny he can compete physically at the NHL level, but we don't want him to be a 4th line player, we want him to be a dominant offensive force. The way I see things, screw the ELC stuff, send him back to Juniors and be extremely honest with him. Tell him he hasn't performed well enough to stick in the NHL and that he needs to go back and work his butt off to get better. He looked more impressive in his draft year and he should be reminded that just because you got drafted, you haven't made it yet.

It was a mistake to keep him past the 9 games because he wasn't ready. It worked for Draisaitl and Edmonton. It will work for Virtanen. He just needs more time to develop than other players selected around him and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Cowardrobertford]

25 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

We'll good thing we have 1 out of the 7 players listed. (McCann) 

Nylander got smoked going cross ice with his head down. Who knows what the after effects of the concussion will be. I have a feeling it will be guys like Jake knocking him out in the bigs in 3 years) 

Ehlers has slown down. (we are seeing the effects of NHL pros buckling down as the season wears on which is affecting guys like McCann as well) 

I haven't seen anything from Sanhiem or Perlini to suggest they would be better than Jake. 

I admit, Jake may turn out to be a 3rd liner who plays physical and chips in for 15-20 goals.  The thing is, I don't think any of the guys you mentioned are clear cut stars either. The positive is, I think Jake as a 3rd liner is his bare minimum. For the others you mentioned, if they don't produce as a top 6 player, I don't think they can contribute much else to the team. 

So yeah, if we redrafted, out of the players you mentioned, I would be deciding between Ritchie and Virtanen but still go with Virtanen. 

 

Good for you, but I've read same reasons why Jake shouldn't be called a failure:

Jake had big bidy, means he's better

Ehlers production dropped off, Virt is still better even if he hadnt been productive in any of his time in the NHL, and you know 19 yr old rookie, production doesn't really matter for 19 yr old rookies

Ehlers is more dynamic offensively and has great Hky IQ

McCann too got smoked by a Russian, and had a concussions before, Virt had Shoulder injury, shink had Hip injury too

Warhippy would also hate you for projectingal  a 19 yr n a half prospect,  with 40 game less NHL exp and over 8 games WJC exp, NHL Career to him, you'd be a fool

As for sanhiem and Perlini they've contributed more to TC than Jake have

[Drakrami]

4 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

Times have changed Bud, 18 and 19 year olds are way better off to step in and contribute now then 10 years ago, in fact in many cases forwards are in their prime 21-26 years of age. So no calling a player a "bust" who was picked 6th overall, ahead of guys like, is not dopey. We can all see that he lacks some pretty critical things to be an effective top 6 player in the NHL.

1	7	Carolina	Haydn Fleury	D	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
1	8	Toronto	William Nylander	C	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]
1	9	Winnipeg	Nikolaj Ehlers	L	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]	36	5	7	12	8	2015-16
1	10	Anaheim	Nick Ritchie	L	Peterborough Petes [OHL]	11	0	1	1	4	2015-16
1	11	Nashville	Kevin Fiala	C	HV71 Jonkoping [SweHL]	1	0	0	0	0	2014-15
1	12	Arizona	Brendan Perlini	L	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]
1	13	Washington	Jakub Vrana	C	Linkopings HC [SweHL]
1	14	Dallas	Julius Honka	D	Swift Current Broncos [WHL]
1	15	Detroit	Dylan Larkin	C	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]	36	13	11	24	20	2015-16
1	16	Columbus	Sonny Milano	L	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
1	17	Philadelphia	Travis Sanheim	D	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
1	18	Minnesota	Alex Tuch	R	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
1	19	Tampa Bay	Anthony DeAngelo	D	Sarnia Sting [OHL]
1	20	Chicago	Nick Schmaltz	F	Green Bay Gamblers [USHL]
1	21	St. Louis	Robby Fabbri	C	Guelph Storm [OHL]	33	9	4	13	2	2015-16
1	22	Pittsburgh	Kasperi Kapanen	F	KalPa Kuopio [SM-liiga]
1	23	Colorado	Conner Bleackley	C	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
1	24	Vancouver	Jared McCann	C	Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]	36	7	4	11	14	2015-16
1	25	Boston	David Pastrnak	L	Sodertalje SK [Swe-1]	56	12	19	31	16	2015-16
1	26	Montreal	Nikita Scherbak	R	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]
1	27	San Jose	Nikolay Goldobin	L	Sarnia Sting [OHL]	9	1	1	2	0	2015-16
1	28	NY Islanders	Josh Ho-Sang	C	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
1	29	Los Angeles	Adrian Kempe	L	MODO Hockey Ornskoldsvik [SweHL]
1	30	New Jersey	John Quenneville

It is true. And it is funny how just a couple of years ago 80% of people on here was like give Kassian patience, he is going to breakout at 25-26 years old. Funnier yet that when he gets traded everyone calls him a crackhead and his supporters evaporated in one day. 

[Mathew Barzal]

It's really sad, I didn't like Virtanen but I had hope he'd at least come close to Booth pre-concussion. His low hockey IQ is holding him back immensely. If Canada wants to go far in this tourney they're going to have to run 3 lines. Virtanen being on the fourth.

[Winter Soldier]

2 hours ago, Drakrami said:

It is true. And it is funny how just a couple of years ago 80% of people on here was like give Kassian patience, he is going to breakout at 25-26 years old. Funnier yet that when he gets traded everyone calls him a crackhead and his supporters evaporated in one day. 

Probably because none of us were aware that his drug abuse was so bad? But sure, write off Virtanen because facts are hard.

[messier's_elbow]

2 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

I said a few days before Jake was kept in the NHL that he shouldn't be there. I think Benning felt his hand was forced since McCann was going to make the team and it would look bad on the Canucks and Jake if the higher drafted player didn't make the team as well.

Jake is a project, he's not a finished product. You can't deny he can compete physically at the NHL level, but we don't want him to be a 4th line player, we want him to be a dominant offensive force. The way I see things, screw the ELC stuff, send him back to Juniors and be extremely honest with him. Tell him he hasn't performed well enough to stick in the NHL and that he needs to go back and work his butt off to get better. He looked more impressive in his draft year and he should be reminded that just because you got drafted, you haven't made it yet.

It was a mistake to keep him past the 9 games because he wasn't ready. It worked for Draisaitl and Edmonton. It will work for Virtanen. He just needs more time to develop than other players selected around him and there is nothing wrong with that.

Yes but when Draisaitl got moved back to junior he went to a contending team with a great program. The hitmen aren't nearly as good with development. 

[messier's_elbow]

1 hour ago, Mathew Barzal said:

It's really sad, I didn't like Virtanen but I had hope he'd at least come close to Booth pre-concussion. His low hockey IQ is holding him back immensely. If Canada wants to go far in this tourney they're going to have to run 3 lines. Virtanen being on the fourth.

Lol wow.. what bridge did you crawl out from? 

[Mathew Barzal]

4 minutes ago, messier's_elbow said:

Lol wow.. what bridge did you crawl out from? 

The one that took me over 2015 in a blink of the eye..