Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Blömqvist]

2 hours ago, Darius71 said:

I knew that Jake had pretty good advanced stats last year, didnt realize how well he did  until I came across these stats posted on Jake's brothers twitter (Stefan Virtanen),  my apologies if these have been posted somewhere in these 800 pages, but along with Jake's recent improved play these stats should really motivate us to be patient with the guy:

 

Virtanen's Corsi stats from 2015-2016 

 

CF60: 51.18 (5th amongst Canucks forwards)
CA60: 49.20 (2nd amongst Canucks forwards)
CF%: 51.0 (1st amongst Canucks forwards)
CF60 RelTM: 1.90 (6th amongst Canucks forwards)
CA60 RelTM: -8.00 (1st amongst Canucks forwards - 12th best forward in the league)
CF% RelTM: 4.7% (Tied 1st amongst Canucks forwards w/ Daniel Sedin)

I have no idea what those advanced stats mean but if Virtanen is winning in that department and making strides in the "eye test" department down in Utica then that sounds like great news! Hopefully he can regain his confidence next season playing alongside Dahlen and Boeser there.

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, Derp... said:

If the Canucks were really thinking they would have approached the Virtanen's and asked them to move Jake to Finland so that he could play his junior years there instead of in the WHL. Then the Canucks could draft him and assign him to Utica like Nylander. Looking back on it now... I'm not sure why they didn't, it seems pretty simple... Uproot a family and young boy, move him to a country where he doesn't speak the language to pursue a career in professional sports. Lots of people come to Canada with that dream, so isn't it time we sent some the other way?



Jokes

Well,  they could just ship Joulevi back to his homeland tomorrow and see how it works out !

[lmm]

5 minutes ago, Derp... said:

If the Canucks were really thinking they would have approached the Virtanen's and asked them to move Jake to Finland so that he could play his junior years there instead of in the WHL. Then the Canucks could draft him and assign him to Utica like Nylander. Looking back on it now... I'm not sure why they didn't, it seems pretty simple... Uproot a family and young boy, move him to a country where he doesn't speak the language to pursue a career in professional sports. Lots of people come to Canada with that dream, so isn't it time we sent some the other way?



Jokes

seriously, couldn't they have asked Calgary to trade him?

[Ronaldoescobar]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

seriously, couldn't they have asked Calgary to trade him?

The Hitmen are owned by the flames organization and they were/are definitely not going to do the nucks any favors. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ronaldoescobar

[TheOgRook]

23 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

The morning buffoons on TMS1040 were doing the hand-wringing 2014 draft redo, and made the comment "The Canucks didn't develop Jake properly, not like the Leafs did with Nylander.  He didn't go to Utica in his rookie season..."

Ermagurd!! Those guys are complete morons and it's shocking they are employed still!

[lmm]

7 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

The Hitmen are owned by the flames organization and they were/are definitely not going to do the nucks any favors. 

I don't recall where Calgary was in the standings at the time, but I'm thinking the return on a #6 pick would have been pretty good for them

[BCNate]

Sorry for the long post.  I have been following  this kid all year through various forms of media, and would like to give my 2 cents.  

 

I am really hoping that Virtanen has a great summer to work with some conditioning coaches and skills coaches, and sets himself up to take on a larger role in Utica next year.  I feel that this season was a "reset" in his development, and his games has been stripped down to the very basics.  I am not at all concerned by his stats, as I don't believe that him producing points was the main goal for this year, it was simply to develop a strong 2 way game that will translate well in the NHL, and correct many flaws in his game.  I do believe that has been achieved, and should be looked at as a positive step forward.

 

Next year will be a critical year in his development.  If he comes to camp in shape, he should be in a top 6 role in Utica, with (hopefully) Boesser, Dahlen, and maybe this years 1st rounder.  Next year is when I will hope to see his offensive game come around.  I truly hope that they don't rush him back to the NHL next year for him to play 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.  

 

Virtanen likely won't be as good as W Nylander in his career, and we likely made the wrong pick in the long sun.  So be it.  It happens to many teams every year.  I am sure that Buffalo (Reinhart), Calgary (Bennett), and the  Islanders (Dal Colle) would love to go back and pick Nylander as well.  That does not mean Virtanen is a bust.  He is a developing 20 year old power forward with a unique skill set.  Give him 2-3 years and he could be a very key part of our next core, right at the time when we need him to be.  Many of the best power forwards in the league over the past 20 years were  not producing a 20, 21, or 22 year olds, the ones that did are the exception.  Virtanen may never be worthy of the 6th overall pick, let alone a 1st round pick, but it is far to soon to come to that conclusion at this stage.

[JM_]

20 hours ago, NotMasonRaymond said:

William Nylander has 17 points in his last 18 games...

 

Jake Virtanen has 16 points in the AHL this year...

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

I think Mrs. Alf used to put a Nylander on our lawn - a big pink one.  

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think Mrs. Alf used to put a Nylander on our lawn - a big pink one.  

You rarely see such a spectacular effort to get out of the way of a puck. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by S'all Good Man

[wellnon]

42 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

Ermagurd!! Those guys are complete morons and it's shocking they are employed still!

Thats how radio works.  Morning guys are suppose to stir the pot and create talking points for the day.  They are just doing their job.  

[Alflives]

Just now, wellnon said:

Thats how radio works.  Morning guys are suppose to stir the pot and create talking points for the day.  They are just doing their job.  

But they know nothing about hockey.  

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

But they know nothing about hockey.  

Seriously,  do you need to know anything about quantum physics to make crap up about it?

 

I don't blame these radio idiots,  I blame the listeners taking anything they say seriously. 

[Blömqvist]

3 hours ago, Borvat said:

I mentioned in another thread that Jake hasn't been properly developed, especially over the past few years.  The Hitmen organization did nothing for him and the Canucks not wanting to send him back there made sense.  The problem being they couldn't send him to Utica so he floundered in the NHL, not being prepared.  

 

Jake has always been "special" and by that I mean he has been able to get by with less than maximum effort and preparation based on size, speed and skill (God given talents).  I believe if he can commit to his craft, understand what it takes to succeed in the NHL and is given time to mature he can be a good one.  I personally think another half season (or full season) in Utica couldn't hurt him.  He basically lost two - three years of development prior to this stint in Utica. 

 

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

and i think this year, and next year, will be to catch him up in his 'lost developmental' time. 

Yea, it will take time for Virtanen to get back into the NHL but we need to trust the process. It sucks watching guys like Nylander and Ehlers or to a lesser extent Tkachuk make these big contributions to their NHL clubs so early in their career yet Jake is still finding his game in the AHL. As fans it sure can be frustrating to watch but IMO Jake can still be a top-6 powerforward and take over games with his physicality, speed, and net presence. 

 

@Borvat is right in that Virtanen basically lost two to three years of development prior to this stint in Utica. That said, being a powerforward like him he would probably have just as much difficulty developing his game if he was on any other WHL or even CHL team not named the London Knights. Powerforwards are a special breed and take time to develop. Since being drafted, the AHL has probably been the best place for him to develop his craft. The rink in the AHL is NHL-sized and the competition is physically tougher than the CHL or Euro leagues.

 

Similar to what @N4ZZY said, I'm thinking that this year will be Jake's "adjustment period" to the physicality, pace, and professionalism of the AHL. That is, this year is his year to learn the physicality of the game when compared to junior, play at a faster pace than what is played in junior, and play consistently -- bringing it every single game instead of every 5 or 10 games. Hopefully Jake can adjust to these things and next year, when Dahlen and Boeser are on Utica, he can regain his confidence and develop his offensive game with them. 

 

Virtanen / Dahlen / Boeser would be a lethal line for Utica in 2017.18, and hopefully all three could make the big club in 2018.19

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

The morning buffoons on TMS1040 were doing the hand-wringing 2014 draft redo, and made the comment "The Canucks didn't develop Jake properly, not like the Leafs did with Nylander.  He didn't go to Utica in his rookie season..."

I don't put too much stock in the morning show. Those guys are, well.....

[N4ZZY]

17 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

 

Yea, it will take time for Virtanen to get back into the NHL but we need to trust the process. It sucks watching guys like Nylander and Ehlers or to a lesser extent Tkachuk make these big contributions to their NHL clubs so early in their career yet Jake is still finding his game in the AHL. As fans it sure can be frustrating to watch but IMO Jake can still be a top-6 powerforward and take over games with his physicality, speed, and net presence. 

 

@Borvat is right in that Virtanen basically lost two to three years of development prior to this stint in Utica. That said, being a powerforward like him he would probably have just as much difficulty developing his game if he was on any other WHL or even CHL team not named the London Knights. Powerforwards are a special breed and take time to develop. Since being drafted, the AHL has probably been the best place for him to develop his craft. The rink in the AHL is NHL-sized and the competition is physically tougher than the CHL or Euro leagues.

 

Similar to what @N4ZZY said, I'm thinking that this year will be Jake's "adjustment period" to the physicality, pace, and professionalism of the AHL. That is, this year is his year to learn the physicality of the game when compared to junior, play at a faster pace than what is played in junior, and play consistently -- bringing it every single game instead of every 5 or 10 games. Hopefully Jake can adjust to these things and next year, when Dahlen and Boeser are on Utica, he can regain his confidence and develop his offensive game with them. 

 

Virtanen / Dahlen / Boeser would be a lethal line for Utica in 2017.18, and hopefully all three could make the big club in 2018.19

I get the sense that Boeser will probably be the quickest to adjust to the pro game. Dahlen next, and Jake last. That's ok, though. Hopefully if that trio plays together, that would light a fire under Jake and his game. 

 

[TheOgRook]

13 minutes ago, wellnon said:

Thats how radio works.  Morning guys are suppose to stir the pot and create talking points for the day.  They are just doing their job.  

Yeah but you would think they would know some facts.. which they don't.  And only the garbage radio guys need to do this.  Sadly that's all we have here minus a couple guys.

[PlanB]

58 minutes ago, BCNate said:

Sorry for the long post.  I have been following  this kid all year through various forms of media, and would like to give my 2 cents.  

 

I am really hoping that Virtanen has a great summer to work with some conditioning coaches and skills coaches, and sets himself up to take on a larger role in Utica next year.  I feel that this season was a "reset" in his development, and his games has been stripped down to the very basics.  I am not at all concerned by his stats, as I don't believe that him producing points was the main goal for this year, it was simply to develop a strong 2 way game that will translate well in the NHL, and correct many flaws in his game.  I do believe that has been achieved, and should be looked at as a positive step forward.

 

Next year will be a critical year in his development.  If he comes to camp in shape, he should be in a top 6 role in Utica, with (hopefully) Boesser, Dahlen, and maybe this years 1st rounder.  Next year is when I will hope to see his offensive game come around.  I truly hope that they don't rush him back to the NHL next year for him to play 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.  

 

Virtanen likely won't be as good as W Nylander in his career, and we likely made the wrong pick in the long sun.  So be it.  It happens to many teams every year.  I am sure that Buffalo (Reinhart), Calgary (Bennett), and the  Islanders (Dal Colle) would love to go back and pick Nylander as well.  That does not mean Virtanen is a bust.  He is a developing 20 year old power forward with a unique skill set.  Give him 2-3 years and he could be a very key part of our next core, right at the time when we need him to be.  Many of the best power forwards in the league over the past 20 years were  not producing a 20, 21, or 22 year olds, the ones that did are the exception.  Virtanen may never be worthy of the 6th overall pick, let alone a 1st round pick, but it is far to soon to come to that conclusion at this stage.

This year's 1st plays with his existing team or with the Canucks,  but not with Utica - age restrictions. Other than that I agree with you,  this was Green's responsibility this year,  to undo the damage to Jakes development and put him back on track.   I wouldn't however say we made the wrong pick though. Still too early to judge that imo. 

[snizzle_]

On 3/21/2017 at 3:57 AM, BoDangles53 said:

fair enough but that's also a part of learning - in the NHL his defensive advanced stats were excellent so his cautious focused defensive play is clearly there if he 'wants' to focus on it. issue is with more ice time and trying to learn alot he's clearly cheating at times etc

 

This is why he's in the AHL to put it all together. Its quite common for offensive players to lose some offense when trying to learn to play defense properly, and counter, when they start playing their 'game' lose some of the defensive focus

Why he's in the AHL is to learn to put those 2 things together before he makes it to the NHL. So while you may suggest he can't play defense very well I disagree because both the quantitative and eye test at the NHL level showed it, issue for him is to move beyond a sole defensive focus and cautious play and to be able to bring ALL of his tools at once. I know this issue first hand, as I played at a very competitive level (US College Tier 1 school) and was an offensive player coming in. When I was shifted down from 1c to 2c my game had to change from cheating and pure offense to more of  200ft game.

 

I will tell you this, defensive hockey is not hard to 'learn' it really is 98% effort (as it is in most sports).  And when I had games where I knew I had to play a tougher Dgame my offense suffered. When I was able to free wheel and cheat my offense thrived.  That being said, separately, I was damn good at both, but putting it all together, shift after shift was not only physically very hard (so that could be affecting him) but also mentally, to stay focused, patient, and tough on the puck in both ends, especially when you were tiring. I think your views are overly simplistic to be honest. Its actually why I respect and love watching players like Toews, Kelser, Burrows, Hansen - what they do is outwork everyone on the ice and probably off the ice as fitness is a big part of playing 200ft. We know that was an issue for Jake but is improving. Fly bys are common when out of shape - stops and starts are the hard work of hockey, when you stop and start it tires you, all he's doing is cheating defensively because of his fitness in my view, not because he can't play defense well. That will be corrected in time

 

You see an inabilty to put the two things together at once as not having one of those skills, I have seen the skill, the stats prove it, so I see an issue of being mentally prepared, engaged shift to shift and focused enough and likely fit enough to play a 200 ft game. That's where the name 200ft game actually comes from 

14

We all know he has the tools/skills it takes to be an effective NHL'er. The sheer power and speed he can play with are unprecedented to this organization, that has never been my issue. You're right that his issue is being mentally prepared, engaged shift to shift and the focus to be trusted in all situations on the ice; I have echoed these statements in the past. But that's where my worries lie, if he'll ever be mentally engaged enough. Tat's the biggest unknown because some players just get it and some don't.

 

I'm glad you're someone who played the game at a high level, and while I never played as high as you, I played 3 years of Junior while being a full time University student. But that also means that you've seen many players that you played with or against that either had the propensity to put the mental game together, or did not. It's not truly binary, but the mental makeup of a player is a pretty crucial indicator of NHL success and definitely a differentiator in being an impact player. The area that separates players like Ghallager, Stetcher, Toews, Horvat, etc. is "between the ears", as coaches would say. Not to say it can't be taught or improved, but it's been Jake's knock for a long time. 

 

Again, I'm cheering for him, but I'm also fully aware of his downfalls and the risk it poses to his NHL success. He is "learning" in the AHL right now, I get that, but he was sent down at the beginning of the season to "practice" and "gain confidence" because we want him to be an offensive player. Regaining your offensive touch and learning the defensive intricacies of the game are not mutually exclusive. He should be able to work on his offense all while learning the pro game (albeit he should have learned a lot last year), yet we've all seen his production.

Edited March 23, 2017 by junglesniper

[WeneedLumme]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

The morning buffoons on TMS1040 were doing the hand-wringing 2014 draft redo, and made the comment "The Canucks didn't develop Jake properly, not like the Leafs did with Nylander.  He didn't go to Utica in his rookie season..."

 

1 minute ago, TheOgRook said:

Yeah but you would think they would know some facts.. which they don't.  And only the garbage radio guys need to do this.  Sadly that's all we have here minus a couple guys.

Yeah, and their buddy the crypt keeper was also contributing to the ignorance. He was calling Goldie's flu food poisoning, and blaming the Canucks. Listening to that morning show is just like reading the mindless drivel the Canucks haters dump all over this forum. At least those media jackals don't pretend to be Canucks fans the way the ones here do.