Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[canuckledraggin]

43 minutes ago, AK_19 said:

Literally the only thing that makes him a likely NHLer is that he was a former top 10 pick. That's it, he's not even an average AHLer at this point and among the five worst picks thus far in his 1st round. It is perfectly acceptable to say he is unlikely to be an AHLer.

It's perfectly acceptable to say anything you want. The moon is made of green cheese. Everybody knows that. 

[messier's_elbow]

Green being our next coach should help Jake. Sounds like they have a pretty good relationship.

[Ojibwa72]

43 minutes ago, gurn said:

He could not go to the AHL last year, it was CHL or NHL.

That being said one more year Junior might have helped.

[N4ZZY]

43 minutes ago, gurn said:

He could not go to the AHL last year, it was CHL or NHL.

I don't understand why people don't seem to understand this point. LMAO 

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, Ojibwa72 said:

That being said one more year Junior might have helped.

Had it been a different team than the Calgary Hitman, he probably would have played in the CHL for that extra year.

[Gaudette Celly]

13 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Nylander has always had questions about how he would do when the game get tight.  That was one reason he dropped in his draft year.  

 

That's not news, he is a regular season player, like his father, but will have to do a lot to show that he can play in the playoffs. Give him a mulligan for game one, but it isn't a good sign.

This was probably the biggest caution for me.  Kids aren't always the same as their fathers, so we'll see if WN turns out that way.  His dad was a good player and put up points wherever he went, but he was never a "big game" player nor a driver or leader of his teams.

 

9 hours ago, Scruffy05 said:

Boeser is soft? He's not huge but he is far from soft. He had 4 goals while he was here and outside of one sneaky one from the face off circle through traffic he was only a couple feet out right in the thick of it.

In at least one of his games with the Canucks, he lead in hits.  So far he appears to play no less physically than Bo, as he doesn't come in on the forecheck and pull a Sedin-stickdig or Huggins but staples guys pretty effectively and aggressively against the boards in efforts to free the puck.

[bohoforpresident]

Its one thing to have wanted another player... But some people are being so short sighted about this. The Utica comets are a team of plugs and AHL lifers. We have maybe 4 good NHL prospects down there. A defender, a goalie, Jake, and now goldobin. (Goldobin has potted 2 goals today so far. Some much needed fire for Jake's behind). Most players would struggle to find offence on that team.

 

Have some perspective and take a look at his circumstances...

 

if you gave any player the linemates and icetime and straight up hee-haw jerk around of being in and out of games, in and out of leagues that Jake had to go through... It's going to be a tough time. 

 

It's going to be a longgggggg ass rebuild if this is the status quo of attitude some of us are taking towards development of a player. 

 

Also...Worst case scenario...if in two years time, jake only amounts to a bottom six player...Chipping in 10 goals and hard hitting... That's still great player to have. Its not a nylander or Ehlers but these are players who can change a game in a different way.

 

But if he turns out to be a top 6 winger like many of us believe he can be... I will be here to say for the first time in my life "I told you so"

 

Lol

 

Stay salty my friend's.

[Phat Fingers]

50 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

This was probably the biggest caution for me.  Kids aren't always the same as their fathers, so we'll see if WN turns out that way.  His dad was a good player and put up points wherever he went, but he was never a "big game" player nor a driver or leader of his teams.

 

In at least one of his games with the Canucks, he lead in hits.  So far he appears to play no less physically than Bo, as he doesn't come in on the forecheck and pull a Sedin-stickdig or Huggins but staples guys pretty effectively and aggressively against the boards in efforts to free the puck.

I don't think that WN will be just like his father, I sure a &^@# don't want to end up like mine...  But the reason WN fell to TO was because scouts were concerned that his playing style was a great regular season style, but not for the playoffs.  It's up to WN to prove them wrong. 

 

WN plays a similar style to his dad, who was a great regular season player.  Never showed up to a playoff game without his golf clubs packed.  

 

WN has had a good rookie season.  Mathews had a great one.  We. Will see who shows up in the playoffs, my money is on Marner, then Mathews, then WN.  It is the thing that WN needs to prove to truly be the real deal.  That's not knocking him down, to any WN fan boys around, it's just an observation.  

 

EmW

[Rob_Zepp]

On 4/13/2017 at 10:47 AM, Westcoasting said:

I don't think it's so much of a bust scenario it's just that at a number 6 pick he is underperforming from what you would hope from a high pick. He could turn out to be a great 3rd liner for sure. But disappointing none the less if that is his ceiling.

Not even remotely close to accurate.   Where someone is drafted has little bearing on their development path.  Power forwards take longer to develop - watch Kassian tonight and tell me many didn't think he was  bust in Buffalo, Vancouver and Montreal.  NYI gave up on Bert way early too.   Virtanen is a kid and by the sounds of it was a bit immature with attitude towards fitness and regime - it happens, but it doesn't take away the raw talent that he has.  The combination of speed, shot and size is relatively unique in his draft year let alone in general in the NHL.   Give him at least until he is 22-23 before even remotely judging his draft position.

 

This insane need to bash kids before they have a chance is disheartening.   Some develop faster but for even those can crash and burn - in Toronto they had three rookies in top five of rookie scoring but changes of all three progressing next year is highly unlikely for example.   Canucks now have players like Dahlen and Goldie and Boeser that seemingly are quicker to develop and this should help Virtanen too as he can be under radar a bit.   Just as I was right with Grandlund, I am saying here and now (quote away ye negative ones) that in three seasons time other than Matthews, Toronto would gladly trade either of their other two top rookies for Virtanen and he will be well-placed in compare with the rest of his draft cohort.    

[Westcoasting]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Not even remotely close to accurate.   Where someone is drafted has little bearing on their development path.  Power forwards take longer to develop - watch Kassian tonight and tell me many didn't think he was  bust in Buffalo, Vancouver and Montreal.  NYI gave up on Bert way early too.   Virtanen is a kid and by the sounds of it was a bit immature with attitude towards fitness and regime - it happens, but it doesn't take away the raw talent that he has.  The combination of speed, shot and size is relatively unique in his draft year let alone in general in the NHL.   Give him at least until he is 22-23 before even remotely judging his draft position.

 

This insane need to bash kids before they have a chance is disheartening.   Some develop faster but for even those can crash and burn - in Toronto they had three rookies in top five of rookie scoring but changes of all three progressing next year is highly unlikely for example.   Canucks now have players like Dahlen and Goldie and Boeser that seemingly are quicker to develop and this should help Virtanen too as he can be under radar a bit.   Just as I was right with Grandlund, I am saying here and now (quote away ye negative ones) that in three seasons time other than Matthews, Toronto would gladly trade either of their other two top rookies for Virtanen and he will be well-placed in compare with the rest of his draft cohort.    

Unless things change drastically (which they could) Virtanen will not be a top six high scoring power forward winger that was drafted at number 6.

[Nave]

9 hours ago, AK_19 said:

Literally the only thing that makes him a likely NHLer is that he was a former top 10 pick. That's it, he's not even an average AHLer at this point and among the five worst picks thus far in his 1st round. IMO I can say he's played better Connor Bleackly and that's all. It is perfectly acceptable to say he is unlikely to be an AHLer.

That's not true. He has very good speed, and NHL level shot, and rare hitting ability. He'll develop into a solid NHL player. The guy is only 20. 

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

That's not true. He has very good speed, and NHL level shot, and rare hitting ability. He'll develop into a solid NHL player. The guy is only 20. 

i have faith that jake will figure things out and become a very good NHL player for us moving forward. 

 

[two drink minimum]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 3:27 PM, tyhee said:

Regardless of who the coach is it seems at least possible that Jake might be a better future player with more time to figure out the game at the AHL level to a greater extent before progressing to the NHL again.  If he is ready by the time training camp rolls around that would be great but there's really nothing to indicate he's there right now.  Obviously he'll be given another shot, but his development needn't be rushed.  

 

The only thing Jake needs to concern himself with is being a professional hockey player 24/7 . That means getting in the weight room, eating right, exercising right, being the first on the ice and the last off it. He needs to pay attention to every detail physically and mentally. It means not insta-gramming pics with the Beibs. No hanging out at local bars and pubs. He has to essentially become a Sedin, Burrows or Horvat. He needs to work tirelessly on every aspect of his game. If he does that he'll be a top 6 forward no doubt. Bo Horvat was projected as a 3rd line center coming out of the draft. He made himself into a low end #1, high end #2 center. Its proof that if you have the will...you can excel

[Phat Fingers]

19 hours ago, Toews said:

He has been the best Leafs player for the past couple of months during a tight playoff race and that includes a 13 game point streak in March. Without his contributions the Leafs don't even sniff the playoffs. Babcock has been praising him recently for his efforts at both ends of the ice and for his compete level which was something he cited earlier in the year as a weakness.

 

I don't really care to discuss Nylander but I find it sad that people are running down a 20 year old rookie who played in his first playoff game yesterday against a stacked Caps team while simultaneously finding every excuse to justify the Virtanen pick.

How am I running down WN.  His first playoff game was not great, big wup. He was considered a possible 1st OA contender early in the year pre draft. His stock slipped due to fears that he would become a perimeter player. You say that he is proving those fears wrong, great. I haven't seen that yet, but I am just one guy. 

 

EmW

[terrible.dee]

On 4/13/2017 at 1:08 PM, BCNate said:

So dumping him for little to no return is your ideal strategy?  He is 20 years old.  He has size, speed and skill.  Not all players hit the ground running in the NHL, sometimes you have to be patient and let them develop.   As I said, let him play an offensive role in Utica next year and see where it goes.  He has a ton of potential, you don't give up on that with a 20 year old.

 

My strategy is not in play here, I told Trev and Benning to quit calling last year and figure it out for themselves, 

 

My observation and projections are based on quantifiable data, things that exist in reality, like a player's objective performance as recorded by stats and the predictable actions of those around him based on how they really feel about his place going forward.

 

Jake did not score in the minor leagues this year, that is not good for a #6 overall who was drafted to score in the majors. Historically speaking GM's are usually quick to rid themselves of their failures, if the disappointing player remains, so do the memories of that GM's mistake. That is why it is likely he will be moved, this totally depends on whether he has any fans out there amongst the league's GM's, do I personally think it's a good idea? I don't know, it seems hard to belive Jake can't play in the NHL with his physical gifts, speed and agression are hot commodities in today's game and I have to think there are many teams out there that would love to take Jake on as their "Kassian project" (Look what Zack did tonight, he's the toast of the town and in the copycat NHL that drives jake's value up this summer) But if Jake is going to stay in Vancouver, he needs to score, and based on his pro record so far, I don't know if people here realize how unlikely that is to happen, it could happen, but it is unlikley.

 

It's not like this wasn't predicted either, things are playing out the way many experts said they would, a north south kid who is bigger and stronger than his competition can dominate in Jr playing a game that requires little thought. In the NHL that doesn't work, Benning gambled on Jake magically sprouting skills he had never displayed even in Jr, all the signs were there, the lack of assists the reliance on out muscling opposing players, "One trick pony" goal scoring, Jake was a flashing red light from the get go, I still don't know what Benning was thinking, I suppose he thought the team would stay competitive and if Jake only amounted to a bottom 6 energy guy he could still end up a fan favorite who helped the team  sell tickets, but when the team went down the crapper, and he realized he didn't have the luxury of making anything but BPA picks it was too late.

 

This having been said, he comes into camp this year with a shot at changing all of that, will he do it? The evidence says HELL NO, skill problems are one thing but put commitment and discipline problems on top of that and you have the perfect recipe for NHL failure.....still, the opportunity is there and Jake knows it, maybe we will see a whole new attitude come fall maybe he will prove the critics wrong.

 

But I predict Vancouver and Buffalo will be working hard on a deal for Reinhart prior to the draft, although Reinhart has scored, Buffalo has not warmed up to him, fans are ok with the idea of trading him as he has become the scapegoat for team they feel should be better, if that deal takes place it's going to include Jake or Joulevi, maybe both, and based on our needs and the longterm recovery of this franchise, Reinhart is EXACTLY what we need, he would be a massive jump forward in thew rebuild, and remember Trev wanted him and tried to get him at the draft, he was quite open about that, Reinhart has been in our sights for as long as he's been in the league, this summer is the perfect storm, I think Buffalo will want Jolevi, and we will give him up along with Tanev and something else, with our current situation on defence we are actually in a possition to give both up and still have our young D core intact, I believe we will push hard for them to take Jake instead, but with Kane already in Buffalo it would seem odd for them to want another power forward with baggage, or maybe Jake will be Kane's replacement? As I'm sure Buffalo still want him gone and will leave him exposed to Vegas if necessary,

Playing with Folingo would probably be the best role model Jake could ask for.

 

In conclusion, I see a lot of fantasy projection on this thread, poster's making predictions not at all rooted in the reality of what is actually going on here, if one chooses to read the tea leaves it's a decent bet Jake doesn't make training camp, let alone the big club, not OUR big club anyway

 

But time will tell.............

[terrible.dee]

On 4/13/2017 at 1:32 PM, Alflives said:

Green will (most likely) be our next head coach.  He will bring Virtanen along, and some of the other younger players too.

 

Is this what you HOPE Alf, or do you have some insider info?

[CanuckGAME]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

How am I running down WN.  His first playoff game was not great, big wup. He was considered a possible 1st OA contender early in the year pre draft. His stock slipped due to fears that he would become a perimeter player. You say that he is proving those fears wrong, great. I haven't seen that yet, but I am just one guy. 

 

EmW

Nylander was never a contender for 1st overall. Come on.

[Phat Fingers]

16 minutes ago, CanuckGAME said:

Nylander was never a contender for 1st overall. Come on.

There was some early rumblings about possibly becoming a top 3 pick. Don't think he was even the top rated euro. 

[73 Percent]

15 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

There was some early rumblings about possibly becoming a top 3 pick. Don't think he was even the top rated euro. 

I think he was an early early pick for 1st overall like 2 years before draft. 

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Unless things change drastically (which they could) Virtanen will not be a top six high scoring power forward winger that was drafted at number 6.

Totally disagree.    I am very happy you are not managing this team.   Patience with this type of skill is essential - sooooooo many examples of power forwards that take until 22 to 25 to blossom and then they dominate for a decade.   Right from Clark Gillies, Charlie Simmer and others in that day to the present, these guys come out of junior and struggle for a bit to find that they no longer dominate against men and it takes a few seasons, often best in AHL or similar, to get the groove.   Also typical is the anxious fans who expect every player to be the player they are going to be right out of the gate - and that happens so rarely but somehow has become the expectation for all.

 

I remain convinced fan expectation, and expectation that is not rooted in logic or hockey knowledge, is getting so far removed from reality.   You have a stud in Virtanen, embrace this fact and watch him take another big step next year.