Remembrance day controversy in Ontario

[Heretic]

You respect the Country, those who fought in it's name and the ideal of freedom. If you don't respect and honour those folk as a group then you have chosen the wrong country (not specifically you). "may have killed friends or family" That is a total load of garbage, this isn't about honouring one specific person, this about honouring and remembering the brothers and sisters that have devoted their time to your freedom. Canada is bigger than any douche bag who would complain about Remembrance Day....but I'm sure it's a small minority opinion and Ezra Levant is laughing his sick little butt off over starting this.

I agree. I just said that because maybe that's how some people feel.

As far as respecting the country, that's the same reason I get upset about people saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".

[zombieksa]

Wow, I live in Essex County and this is the first I am hearing about this...

[73 Percent]

http://loveitorleave.ca

Online petition for those who care

[viking mama]

You respect the Country, those who fought in it's name and the ideal of freedom. If you don't respect and honour those folk as a group then you have chosen the wrong country (not specifically you). "may have killed friends or family" That is a total load of garbage, this isn't about honouring one specific person, this about honouring and remembering the brothers and sisters that have devoted their time to your freedom. Canada is bigger than any douche bag who would complain about Remembrance Day....but I'm sure it's a small minority opinion and Ezra Levant is laughing his sick little butt off over starting this.

Apparently, Chalky,..some people have NO one in their lives,,... or in their past whom they wish to remember in anyway. No service man or homeland citizenry to whom they may feel lovingly indepted. Shame that! So why not borrow our ancestors & hereos.....or just feel an indeptedness to those around the globe who are making some in-roads towards safety & freedom. Remembrance Day,...also asks just that.

WW I was supposed to be the war to end all wars,...but unfortunately - it wasnt. Our aging veterans today don't just march for their fallen comrades & pride,...they march to give us the sacred opportunity to be grateful... & they also march for peace! As a nation known for having sent now millions of soldiers into some of the most difficult & challenging battle zones to achieve some nearly impossible objectives,...is it any wonder that Canadians are now fixtures on UN 'peacekeeping' missions around the world? No one appreciates & cherishes 'peace' more than Canadians....despite the current politics of the day, the lunacy of terrorists, the whiniest protesters, or the threatenings of fear-mongerers at home or in other nations. Canada willing gets between combatants in many situations & attempts to broker a peace. With populations increasing ...the world is only getting smaller. Global peace & safety is still in everyone's best interests - and has always been the main objective, here.

Again - I can't explain it any better than this very "Canadian" song. I know , that you get it Chalky....but to the others who may not,...I invite you to listen, watch & learn.

http://youtu.be/prPsDBulNJQ

[-DLC-]

Here's what I will say....talk to a veteran, if they will open up. The pain and anguish of having engaged in war isn't something that ever leaves them. Remembrance Day reminds us of the reality of war - that people die. It isn't a celebration, it's a somber reminder and that's not promoting war, that's something that should make us ALL stop and think about it. It forces us to stand and reflect on the dead...no one's cheering and celebrating and many silent tears are shed by those who stood there, in those trenches, and saw people being killed. There is no celebration in that, only pain.

When you come to this country, do your research and decide if it's the right fit or not. If things are done that you are not in support of, perhaps it's not the right choice - it's a big world, there are other alternatives. But here, we do have a day to honour and respect the veterans who lost their lives. If it doesn't work for you, that's your deal but don't expect it to become everyone's deal.

I will not argue this any further, as it doesn't feel right to do so It actually seems very disrespectful and I'd rather expend my energy doing something other than "fighting". That's the entire basis of war - it starts somewhere...with people who can't see eye to eye. If you're guilty of that (fighting for an agenda), then you're not doing it right and part of the problem, not any solution. So, out of respect for this day, I won't engage in it any further. And, although I accept that some have a different opinion, I won't change my mind or my actions. I will be paying my respects and that isn't going to stop...it's unreasonable to expect that it would.

The people who don't want to acknowledge or be part of this day...it's ok, go about your business in a "nothing to see here"way then. But don't disrupt or challenge those of us who do. It's called respect, and an anti war agenda (which I am also in support of) should recognize that (respect), as a stepping stone to peace. Be the change you want to happen. Tolerance and understanding, respect and love. We all could use some work on those things at times.

RIP Sandy. I will never forget you or the stories that I did get you to open up and share.

[Ghostsof1915]

Nothing is worse than your mom threatening you to get beat with a wooden spoon. I knew if I got spanked, or disciplined, I know I was out of line.

[TheMohammadman]

I am Muslim and I am proud to wear a poppy and to sing O Canada. The Muslims I knew when I lived in Calgary respected remembrance day.

I even remember the imam of the South-West Masjid (Mosque) giving a sermon a few years back about remembrance day and how we should remember the people who sacrificed their lives for ours.

I don't understand why people would tell their kids to not participate. How does remembrance day contradict with any Islamic rule/law at all?

[73 Percent]

I am Muslim and I am proud to wear a poppy and to sing O Canada. The Muslims I knew when I lived in Calgary respected remembrance day.

I even remember the imam of the South-West Masjid (Mosque) giving a sermon about remembrance day and how we should remember the people who sacrificed their lives for ours.

I don't understand why people would tell their kids to not participate. How does remembrance day contradict with any Islamic rule/law at all?

good for you and your family brother!

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

I don't wear a poppy, simply because the British Army have in the past committed far too many atrocities both far away and close to home. That's not to say that I don't have respect for veterans. If Remembrance Day was exclusively about WW1 and WW2 I'd proudly wear one, but it isn't. So I don't. I'll take a moment to remember privately instead.

I don't think that people should be forced to do anything. Isn't that what freedom is all about?

[WillyFox]

Because Remembrance Day is a reminder to the world what the cost of war really is and why it should be avoided at all costs. Also because the only reason you are around today with the ability to insult our veterans and disgrace yourself as a Canadian (which is what you do by not showing respect for those who made your freedom possible) is because of the sacrifices made yesterday. It's pathetic because it is selfish to think that for one second you don't owe everything you take for granted today to the selfless acts of Canadians years before.

If it wasn't for their sacrifices, unless you and your ancestors fit into Hitler's idea of the "master race" you would not exist. And if you did, you would speaking German and goose stepping around everywhere.

Go tell those who are Polish, Jewish, African etc. that those sacrifices aren't worthy of 1 day of respect and recognition.

On your side show some respect they are the only reason you are able to complain on this forum because they made sacrifices for freedom..

[73 Percent]

I don't think that people should be forced to do anything. Isn't that what freedom is all about?

yes and no. These people dont mind sending their children on class trips and to school for their future. Its half on the government for allowing this. It should be mandatory imo. They are going to school anyways.its not like they have to make a special trip anywhere. Why aren't they exempted from history class in that case?

[Mustapha]

In this day and age, a dictionary is more than easily accessible.

You don't even NEED a dictionary if you were to look it up as a picture. Your generation has so much accessibility to information. It's just no excuse.

Sorry, but this comment is really ridiculous.

Let me see if I understand your logic: Because information exists, it is a person's responsibility to acquire ALL of said information.

The guy said he didn't know what a cenotaph is. If he has no awareness of the object's existence, how is he expected to research it?

I doubt there are many people who have every single word in an english dictionary memorized and in their personal vocabulary.

[FramingDragon]

I don't wear a poppy, simply because the British Army have in the past committed far too many atrocities both far away and close to home. That's not to say that I don't have respect for veterans. If Remembrance Day was exclusively about WW1 and WW2 I'd proudly wear one, but it isn't. So I don't. I'll take a moment to remember privately instead.

I don't think that people should be forced to do anything. Isn't that what freedom is all about?

and i certainly don't support the military's current efforts, and therefore i can't support its service men and women, or the "rhetoric" and propaganda that they orbit. history, though, is a different case

good stuff broskis

The rest of the posts on this page are variations of "if you don't like freedom then just git out", willfully obtuse about the present situation. It almost hurts to read tbh

I am also enjoying this revisionist history of WW2 in which the Allies kept the Nazis from world domination. I would expect better understanding of the war from people who clearly only see this country from the glory of said times.

The Soviets bore the brunt of engaging the Wehrmacht, the Western Front is not the main arena as you're so biased in thinking in crippling the Nazis. Germany was not invincible, Germany never was keen on "taking over the whole world", and if you want to talk about disrespect and ignorance just look to your own posts about this matter. It's childish and one note.

[trek]

Sorry, but this comment is really ridiculous.

Let me see if I understand your logic: Because information exists, it is a person's responsibility to acquire ALL of said information.

The guy said he didn't know what a cenotaph is. If he has no awareness of the object's existence, how is he expected to research it?

I doubt there are many people who have every single word in an english dictionary memorized and in their personal vocabulary.

No, your comment is ridiculous. The point was even if he didn't know what a cenotaph was, that information is easily accessible with one simple search. It's not about memorizing the dictionary, but having the ability to find information and educate ones self before spewing ill-informed rhetoric.

Regardless, he was either a troll or an uneducated bigot.

[Captain Aerosex]

Remembrance Day for me has always been that: a time to remember.

I think about what it would be like to be a soldier in a trench, the fear and pain. The heightened intensity of emotions in such a situation: the strength of friendships made and the loss when they're torn apart.

I think about how terrible it'd be to be in such a position. And I'm grateful that I'm not in such a position. And I hope that I never have to be in such a position.

That's all. I think everybody can get behind that sentiment with no need to 'pick a side'.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

I'm really quite amazed, far more-so than appalled, at the disconnect between the new generation of immigrants (seemingly second or third gen) and Canadian heritage and history. There is no exaggeration to say the US and especially Canada would have been curb stomped by the Axis powers if they didn't prevent Germany from toppling the British. There was absolutely nothing to stop an invasion at that point. The importance of keeping the Germans in the parts of Europe and Africa they controlled was vital. A German victory would have likewise emboldened the Japanese to have placed all their cards on attacking North America.

A lot of people died from both here and the US (along with a ton of Europeans: Jews, Soviets, British, etc.), it's a very simple thing to respect those who died then so you can enjoy the freedoms you have to dismiss or take a sh*t on it.

good stuff broskis

The rest of the posts on this page are variations of "if you don't like freedom then just git out", willfully obtuse about the present situation. It almost hurts to read tbh

I am also enjoying this revisionist history of WW2 in which the Allies kept the Nazis from world domination. I would expect better understanding of the war from people who clearly only see this country from the glory of said times.

The Soviets bore the brunt of engaging the Wehrmacht, the Western Front is not the main arena as you're so biased in thinking in crippling the Nazis. Germany was not invincible, Germany never was keen on "taking over the whole world", and if you want to talk about disrespect and ignorance just look to your own posts about this matter. It's childish and one note.

The Western Front sped up Germany's defeat way sooner than it would've, and certainly the prisoners who survived would've probably died had the Allies not come in as quickly as they did. I give them credit for that. To suggest that the Western Front was the defining theatre of WWII has clearly never taken an objective historical view of WWII. I could go so far as to say that the failure of the Blitz was important in the eventual demise of Germany, or that Pearl Harbor awoke the giant that is U.S.A., but the primary reason Germany fell was because the Soviets beat them back. Or, those folks can continue to spew nonsense and claim that Hitler was still winning the war in 1944.

[ilduce39]

"Soldier" is a terrible job that serves the best interests of their countrymen through the most difficult of times. Split that apart all you want, they take orders from the government whom we, as Canadians, elected to power. There was no more terrible a job in recent history than the great wars. Ergo, these soldiers served their country through some of the most brutal times large groups of Canadians have ever been asked to endure for Canada.

That's who you are "remembering." It is remembrance of the cost of war and the price paid for entering one. Even those who survived carried deep wounds both psychological and physical. Nobody is paying respect to Robert Borden for shoveling them over there to get chewed up for a patch of mud in France.

It is remembering that no matter how comfortable our lives are right now, so long as we have something someone else may covet, there will be an unfortunate need for a military.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

first of all, "the old wars" are not statistically or culturally interchangeable, and positing stuff like "they signed up for personal motive" is so vague that it is meaningless. if you're going to make extremely bold claims like you're doing, you're going to need to be extremely specific, especially if you're going to encourage people to be 'analytical' in their responses. what, exactly, are you encouraging analysis of?

anyway, how do you know what personal motive is? how do you know "personal motive" doesn't align with cultural or political motive? what are you even talking about when you say personal motive?

talk all you want about the conscription issues in WW1, but it was a COMPLETELY different ballgame in WW2, and the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of people involved in the war--especially those who saw action--were volunteers/enlisters, 80% of these people already had jobs. It's true that many of them signed up for adventure and to see the world, but it's also true that people signed up for ideological reasons too. it's also true that people can act for a number of reasons. it's also true that people can act without thinking at all. so again, when we talk about motive, what are we talking about, and what is the source for deciding how many people signed up for which motive more than any other, etc.?

second, you should think twice before coming into a remembrance day thread and saying "as one of the few people who has been directly impacted by the Canadian military," because that's a pretty weird thing to say...

I am no exception, and I won't shed any tears tomorrow, but my grandfather was a runner in WW2 and was shot 3 times. he survived, but in poor condition. this, of course, impacted how my grandparents (farmers) were able, or not able, to raise my mom and her 4,000 sisters. unless you're a naive monkey who doesn't understand the cripple-legged concept of economic mobility in a capitalist system/social strata, you could never in a million years say that my life was not heavily guided by my immediate lineage and its involvement in the war. i was raised by a mother who was raised by people who couldn't afford any goddamn thing. is that not direct enough?

and that's just me. i'm sure others have far more detailed stories to tell. i don't care where the army plucked you from, you shouldn't forget that WW2 was not that long ago and that many posters around here aren't teenagers anymore

thirdly, your "insensitive" remark ("Those who had ancestors who served in WWI or WWII want to believe their death was meaningful") is also a paranoid view of things. How could you possibly know, or make general statements about "ancestors" and how they believe, what they believe, and why? You don't know, so you shouldn't say it, especially when you preface it, outrageously, with "i know this insensitive, buuuut"

edit: none of this is an endorsement of some of the things LarsEller or others have said, btw

and i certainly don't support the military's current efforts, and therefore i can't support its service men and women, or the "rhetoric" and propaganda that they orbit. history, though, is a different case

You are right on a couple of points, of which I redact my statements. I suppose I was a little shortsighted. I was trolling LarsEller a bit near the end, since he clearly didn't know a thing about what he was saying.

You have to ask yourself how all Canadians were mobilized into total war. Where able, young men enlisted and the rest produced munitions and supplies. LarsEller is dead wrong. Canada and the world got out of the Great Depression because, not despite the outbreak of WWII. Everything Canadians did during mobilization helped boost the economy and they knew that. Enlistment was one factor. But we know how war propaganda works, from the government's level to the local level. It's easy to mobilize citizens to defend one's homeland. Getting men to go overseas is not.

[Hugor Hill]

The school board is making something out of nothing.

The Toronto Sun (garbage paper) article is making something out of something that was made out of nothing.

Look, according to the article, no Muslim families objected to Remembrance Day ceremony. The school board passed some emails around notifying the schools that just incase maybe possibly perhaps some Muslim families may possibly perhaps might not want to participate. While the school board is just being cautious, the Toronto Sun writer Ezra Levant (some nobody) certainly has no business blowing things 100 times out of proportion.

Media made racism by some garbage newspaper written by some garbage writer with no purpose but to generate hate and racial divisiveness.

[drummer4now]

http://loveitorleave.ca

Online petition for those who care

Stuff like this hurts.. and you don't even know. Like countless others have mentioned in the past people can't just pack up and leave. I am actually surprised you support this narrative.

The only thing this promotes is further divide.

How would you feel if someone told you to go back where you came from? Don't forget your ancestors were immigrants at one point in time.. I'm sure they would have greatly appreciated this statement if someone told

them that