Preseason performances: reality vs business of what starting roster should be

[groovy]

Let's wait and see. If nothing changes in the next few games I'm expecting McCann and Hutton to make the team. Virtanen and Gaunce can be first call ups and will get in the line-up as there will be injuries. Keep your eyes on the ball here people, if 4 of these guys have made the transition to the NHL by the trade deadline, so that we can make a couple of trades and load up on picks, that's the goal here. Now that I can see Hutton on defense, this might be a decent year, but next year we come storming out of the gate.

Keep your eyes on the rules.

[MeanSeanBean]

There is no way Vey clears waivers. He's young and has offensive upside. People rip on him unnecessarily I think. I agree , that he hasn't really earned his shot this pre-season, but that comes down to PRE-SEASON. It really doesn't matter. If he can hold down the 4th line and give our high end prospects time to develop, he serves his purpose perfectly.

[TOMapleLaughs]

50/50 Vey clears waivers.

But I highly doubt he'd be sent down in the first place.

[Jack Fig]

...except that it will further embolden the incessant vitriol of the Debbies and Nancies.

Debbies and Nancies are good for dating, but lousy for arguing with.

[Warhippy]

I'm amazed how many people don't seem to get this WH.

We paid a 2nd for a stop gap. A guy that will likely be, in his prime, a complimentary, middle 6, 30-40 point guy and allow us the patience and time to not rush our other prospects. That's better than you'll get for most 2nd's. And in the next 1-2 years if/when our other prospects, trades or UFA's make him redundant, we flip him for something else.

The amount of mouth frothing on here over what amounts to a relatively minor role player is as hilarious as it is sad.

As for lineups, I still vote for:

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows

Baer, Horvat, Vrbata

Dorsett, Sutter, Hansen

Prust, McCann, Virtanen

Vey

*Though I think they're strongly considering Cracknell for that 4C spot despite how much McCann's earned a look.

Also people really need to stop putting Vrbata with the twins 5on5. It's clear that's not in the plans short of Burrows being traded/injured etc..

I just fail to see how people are failing to miss the obvious

in 2-3 years we could be a team without

D Sedin

H Sedin

A Burrows

R Vrbata

C Higgins

J Hansen

While we have a young kid named Vey who while underwhelming right now is still a guy who was top 15 in rookie scoring last year in a group that included Ekblad, Nyquist etc.

We NEED that stop gap. people keep crying and clamouring for change. Well, change is coming for good or ill. If we judge the most likely future we have a few top 10 picks coming based on the strength of our division and conference alone without factoring in our teams issues.

We NEED a player like Vey right now so we can start moving towards that future. Without Vey we slap in McCaan. Would you rather risk Vey or McCaan to Burns behind the net in San Jose? Vey or McCaan/Cassels against Nolan in LA? Vey or McCaan/Cassels etc against any number of big bruising D men or forwards in our conference?

Vey is JUST a stop gap. If we can keep him productive, he'll be worth a 2nd to someone in 2-3 years without risking the development of any of our young kids. We need players like him right now as we transition forward. There is a great pick and group of prospects in our future over the next 2-3 seasons.

I would rather have Vey in the line up who can at least stand up to that level of play based on his time on the Monarchs in the LA system than risking the future by tossing rookies in just because Vey is not the flavour of the month anymore

Added in of course this is his second year and he could very quickly as you said become a 30-50 point player on this team. It is in our best interest to simply play him. Because waiving him is stupid, trading him for whatever is even worse and leaving him in the press box is just mind bogglingly wasteful

We have him, he is a cushion and a buffer between the big club and our rookies. And that alone should be the eye opener so many need.

When Linden Vey is the only depth standing between the NHL and our rookies...you should know it is better to let them develop than throwing them in just because we want da youth

[bobby-b]

I just fail to see how people are failing to miss the obvious

in 2-3 years we could be a team without

D Sedin

H Sedin

A Burrows

R Vrbata

C Higgins

J Hansen

While we have a young kid named Vey who while underwhelming right now is still a guy who was top 15 in rookie scoring last year in a group that included Ekblad, Nyquist etc.

We NEED that stop gap. people keep crying and clamouring for change. Well, change is coming for good or ill. If we judge the most likely future we have a few top 10 picks coming based on the strength of our division and conference alone without factoring in our teams issues.

We NEED a player like Vey right now so we can start moving towards that future. Without Vey we slap in McCaan. Would you rather risk Vey or McCaan to Burns behind the net in San Jose? Vey or McCaan/Cassels against Nolan in LA? Vey or McCaan/Cassels etc against any number of big bruising D men or forwards in our conference?

Vey is JUST a stop gap. If we can keep him productive, he'll be worth a 2nd to someone in 2-3 years without risking the development of any of our young kids. We need players like him right now as we transition forward. There is a great pick and group of prospects in our future over the next 2-3 seasons.

I would rather have Vey in the line up who can at least stand up to that level of play based on his time on the Monarchs in the LA system than risking the future by tossing rookies in just because Vey is not the flavour of the month anymore

Added in of course this is his second year and he could very quickly as you said become a 30-50 point player on this team. It is in our best interest to simply play him. Because waiving him is stupid, trading him for whatever is even worse and leaving him in the press box is just mind bogglingly wasteful

We have him, he is a cushion and a buffer between the big club and our rookies. And that alone should be the eye opener so many need.

When Linden Vey is the only depth standing between the NHL and our rookies...you should know it is better to let them develop than throwing them in just because we want da youth

You My Friend... are a Master when spotting the obvious... be kind to those who can't see as well as you can or who are not willing to deal with the truth.

By the way... Why are all of you burning brain-cels over a border line player like Vey... If he's a borderline sitter... why on earth do you think he should be on the Team... Damn Man... That's what's called a losing attitude.

[Warhippy]

You My Friend... are a Master when spotting the obvious... be kind to those who can't see as well as you can or who are not willing to deal with the truth.

By the way... Why are all of you burning brain-cels over a border line player like Vey... If he's a borderline sitter... why on earth do you think he should be on the Team... Damn Man... Thay's what's called a losing attitude.

Well

Since you obviously didn't read my post or follow the discussion i will write this in crayon for you

Vey is a warm NHL ready body

McCaan/Virtanen/Shinkaruk/Cassels/Valk are really not

If you had to risk one player knowing that this season was most likely not going to be a playoff season would or rather risk Vey, or one of your prized prospects

I'll wait for your response and hope you actually go back and read the discussion before making it. Also do avoid calling me names or making assumptions like I just want our team to tank because I want Vey in the line up. it only makes you look bad when you do

[bobby-b]

Well

Since you obviously didn't read my post or follow the discussion i will write this in crayon for you

Vey is a warm NHL ready body

McCaan/Virtanen/Shinkaruk/Cassels/Valk are really not

If you had to risk one player knowing that this season was most likely not going to be a playoff season would or rather risk Vey, or one of your prized prospects

I'll wait for your response and hope you actually go back and read the discussion before making it. Also do avoid calling me names or making assumptions like I just want our team to tank because I want Vey in the line up. it only makes you look bad when you do

What has Vey proved, he played last year and scored a bit... but going forward, it's McCann who should be given the ice time you are willing to give Vey. Vey and others like him need protection... that why the spot given to Prust is wasted... because of the Canucks constant use of players who will break down under the pressure of NHL competition.

This is in a" Lime Green Crayon" color for you... Vey is simply not good enough to waste the opportunity on.

[TheGuardian_]

I just fail to see how people are failing to miss the obvious

in 2-3 years we could be a team without

D Sedin

H Sedin

A Burrows

R Vrbata

C Higgins

J Hansen

While we have a young kid named Vey who while underwhelming right now is still a guy who was top 15 in rookie scoring last year in a group that included Ekblad, Nyquist etc.

We NEED that stop gap. people keep crying and clamouring for change. Well, change is coming for good or ill. If we judge the most likely future we have a few top 10 picks coming based on the strength of our division and conference alone without factoring in our teams issues.

We NEED a player like Vey right now so we can start moving towards that future. Without Vey we slap in McCaan. Would you rather risk Vey or McCaan to Burns behind the net in San Jose? Vey or McCaan/Cassels against Nolan in LA? Vey or McCaan/Cassels etc against any number of big bruising D men or forwards in our conference?

Vey is JUST a stop gap. If we can keep him productive, he'll be worth a 2nd to someone in 2-3 years without risking the development of any of our young kids. We need players like him right now as we transition forward. There is a great pick and group of prospects in our future over the next 2-3 seasons.

I would rather have Vey in the line up who can at least stand up to that level of play based on his time on the Monarchs in the LA system than risking the future by tossing rookies in just because Vey is not the flavour of the month anymore

Added in of course this is his second year and he could very quickly as you said become a 30-50 point player on this team. It is in our best interest to simply play him. Because waiving him is stupid, trading him for whatever is even worse and leaving him in the press box is just mind bogglingly wasteful

We have him, he is a cushion and a buffer between the big club and our rookies. And that alone should be the eye opener so many need.

When Linden Vey is the only depth standing between the NHL and our rookies...you should know it is better to let them develop than throwing them in just because we want da youth

I believe that if the team waits too long they will not have the "mentors" required for the young guys to get a handle on the game, ala Edmonton.

Who would you rather have as mentors, Vey and Sven or the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis and Vrbata while they can still be effective?

That said, facing players larger than 6' 200lbs will always happen regardless of age, Vey is just one of those players that is a tweener, a very good AHL player, but a tad lacking to play the same game in the NHL.

Would it not be good if the team could have Virtanen - McCann - Guance, as a line, for development, getting third or fourth (sheltered) line minutes, like they did with Horvat?

[bobby-b]

I believe that if the team waits too long they will not have the "mentors" required for the young guys to get a handle on the game, ala Edmonton.

Who would you rather have as mentors, Vey and Sven or the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis and Vrbata while they can still be effective?

That said, facing players larger than 6' 200lbs will always happen regardless of age, Vey is just one of those players that is a tweener, a very good AHL player, but a tad lacking to play the same game in the NHL.

Would it not be good if the team could have Virtanen - McCann - Guance, as a line, for development, getting third or fourth (sheltered) line minutes, like they did with Horvat?

I think you're on to something... please post more often, the stale users of this Forum need the spark of youth in order to change thier Old-Time Veiws of Our Home Town Team..

[Canada Hockey Place]

"Mentors" lol.

I guess EDM failed because they couldn't "mentor" Hall and RNH to double shift to play in net or as top pairing D.

Who "mentored" Toews or Keith?

I'm not saying it's not an important factor in player development, it's just a ridiculously overused meme.

[lmm]

I just fail to see how people are failing to miss the obvious

in 2-3 years we could be a team without

D Sedin

H Sedin

A Burrows

R Vrbata

C Higgins

J Hansen

While we have a young kid named Vey who while underwhelming right now is still a guy who was top 15 in rookie scoring last year in a group that included Ekblad, Nyquist etc.

We NEED that stop gap. people keep crying and clamouring for change. Well, change is coming for good or ill. If we judge the most likely future we have a few top 10 picks coming based on the strength of our division and conference alone without factoring in our teams issues.

We NEED a player like Vey right now so we can start moving towards that future. Without Vey we slap in McCaan. Would you rather risk Vey or McCaan to Burns behind the net in San Jose? Vey or McCaan/Cassels against Nolan in LA? Vey or McCaan/Cassels etc against any number of big bruising D men or forwards in our conference?

Vey is JUST a stop gap. If we can keep him productive, he'll be worth a 2nd to someone in 2-3 years without risking the development of any of our young kids. We need players like him right now as we transition forward. There is a great pick and group of prospects in our future over the next 2-3 seasons.

I would rather have Vey in the line up who can at least stand up to that level of play based on his time on the Monarchs in the LA system than risking the future by tossing rookies in just because Vey is not the flavour of the month anymore

Added in of course this is his second year and he could very quickly as you said become a 30-50 point player on this team. It is in our best interest to simply play him. Because waiving him is stupid, trading him for whatever is even worse and leaving him in the press box is just mind bogglingly wasteful

We have him, he is a cushion and a buffer between the big club and our rookies. And that alone should be the eye opener so many need.

When Linden Vey is the only depth standing between the NHL and our rookies...you should know it is better to let them develop than throwing them in just because we want da youth

I agree with the sentiment here, however I think Cracknell needs to be in this discussion.

The problem with Vey is the same as Ballard, Kassian, Baertchi and to a lesser degree Mathias . That is the illusion of getting good value for your trade pieces.

We gave up firsts for Ballard and Kassian, seconds for Vey and Baertchi and Lou for Mathias and fans want to see value while the manager of the day needs to show it. Ballard, Kass and Mathias combined brought back Prust, but that is OK because they were all last regimes mistakes. Vey and Baer are still on JBs report card. So the question is, if MG brought in Vey would he still be here?

[RWMc1]

We have yet to dress a complete lineup. McCaan has played with complementary players so far. Once the season starts, the only spot available will be 4th line center with Prust and Dorsett. He would be better served playing in a more suitable role with similar type players. Benning has to weigh the pros and cons of keeping or sending down.

Horvat already had an NHl body and had his 200 ft. game down. McCaan has a good offensive upside, but risking his confidence and health seems unreasonable to me. The only other option would to use Sutter with Prust and Dorsett as a shut-down line and use McCaan in a more offensive role.

Hutton will be a good option for call-up, but giving up on Corrado to make room for him would be a mistake. We moved Clandenning instead of him so we need to keep him and see how he develops this season. If we don't, then Benning will open himself up to more criticism on the Sutter deal. For that reason alone I beleive that Hutton will be sent down.

[Dr. Crossbar]

I believe that if the team waits too long they will not have the "mentors" required for the young guys to get a handle on the game, ala Edmonton.

Who would you rather have as mentors, Vey and Sven or the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis and Vrbata while they can still be effective?

That said, facing players larger than 6' 200lbs will always happen regardless of age, Vey is just one of those players that is a tweener, a very good AHL player, but a tad lacking to play the same game in the NHL.

Would it not be good if the team could have Virtanen - McCann - Guance, as a line, for development, getting third or fourth (sheltered) line minutes, like they did with Horvat?

You make a great point, and there's merit on both sides of this debate. We're seeing a bit of a change in headspace (from fans and league) with regard to youth and development ... even from just a couple years ago. There's something to be said for capitalizing on a player's momentum in an elevated situation and developing them at that elevated level.

You don't have to coddle every player. Put them in over their head and see if they can continue to climb. The first 9 games is perfect for that.

I mean, I will say this about Torts when he was here ... and this is different but similar ... he put Lack in against the elite teams in the league that season - when no one expected - and Eddie raised his game. Sometimes that's the only way to see what you've got. And sometimes you don't realize that a player can handle more than you think.

People in general are more resilient than given credit for. But this is a business so you more often than not have to take the safe route to develop players. When you're dealing with expensive assets for the future, that's also the smart way.

Me, I'm a "put people in extreme situations to see what they're made of" kind of guy. That doesn't work for everyone.

I think Hutton is a guy who can be developed at the elevated level with more upside than downside. I think he can handle it. Virtanen as well. McCann, not so sure if he can sustain this momentum. Would love to see if he can light it up in the first 9 games. Gaunce is a byproduct of the slow burn development, which is why he's ready.

It's a fine line with no easy answer. Overall, it's a numbers game. Over the summer Benning had to fill in gaps on the roster and sign players without the benefit of what we're seeing from players in pre-season. You have to make those decisions on known NHL players rather than waiting for the unknown with prospects. That comes down to a timing thing, which is frustrating because we're now seeing some guys who could potentially fill those gaps prior the summer signings.

I would have rather seen Benning come out and say, we have 2 or 3 spots and that's it... rather than saying they'd make space for those who belong.

[Canuck Surfer]

Fair enough - imo he's physically capable of making the step and he brings a set of attributes the team probably lacks/needs moreso than McCann (despite how dynamic McCann has looked in flashes) - so if it were one or the other, it won't surprise me if Virtanen stays.

For me, the lineup remains a bit of a puzzle.

I'm not terribly fond of the lack of forecheck they'll get with Baertshi and Vrbata as wings on the second line.

I'm not that keen on the idea of Vey at 4C. I think he was a good risk at the time he was acquired, but the development of a number of young two way prospects puts him in a tight spot - but at the same time, injuries are inevitable, and he'll likely play an important role regardless.

Depending on who/what they could get for Vrbata however, it wouldn't surprise me if he wound up being the guy they deal (if further down the road). In the short run, it also wouldn't shock me if they flipped Vey.

I disagree entirely with the idea that management makes or avoids move to keep themselves from 'looking bad'. I think they won't hesitate to do what they think is right regardless of optics.

Bottom point: yes definitely GMJB has earned the credibility that he makes decisions at face value.

I also have wondered how playing Baertschi & Vrbata together makes sense. At least with a D first, match up centre. Being a 4 line team, earlier in the thread I proposed an alignment that played each on a scoring line (if McCann made it). Radim with the Twins. Baer with McCann & Virtanen. As much is made of Burr with the Twins. Burr is just as effective, its how he broke into the league, playing on a defensive pressure line. Guys like Burr, Hansen, Dorsett and Gaunce all have value as defensive forwards. And could play with Sutter and Bo as shut down lines. To me that would be the great thing about McCann making it; clearly defined scoring and match up lines & roles.

My guess is if they don't extend his contract by mid-season he's gone by the trade deadline. It would create a spot for Hutton while giving him half the season in the ahl playing a larger role first.

We have 3 D men that are UFA at the end of the year. Bart and Weber are, IMO less likely to be here next year than Hamhuis. In fact the left side od our D would look pretty damn good the next 3 to 4 years if Hutton continues to look as good as it has. I think Hamhuis stays as much as an emergence from Hutton at least offers us an option. 3 years from now, if Brisbois emerges, maybe then?

Edler Tanev

Hamhuis xxxxxxx

Hutton yyyyyyyy

Where x is cuurently Corrado (or Bart on his off side), and y Weber.

[aGENT]

Bottom point: yes definitely GMJB has earned the credibility that he makes decisions at face value.

I also have wondered how playing Baertschi & Vrbata together makes sense. At least with a D first, match up centre. Being a 4 line team, earlier in the thread I proposed an alignment that played each on a scoring line (if McCann made it). Radim with the Twins. Baer with McCann & Virtanen. As much is made of Burr with the Twins. Burr is just as effective, its how he broke into the league, playing on a defensive pressure line. Guys like Burr, Hansen, Dorsett and Gaunce all have value as defensive forwards. And could play with Sutter and Bo as shut down lines. To me that would be the great thing about McCann making it; clearly defined scoring and match up lines & roles.

We have 3 D men that are UFA at the end of the year. Bart and Weber are, IMO less likely to be here next year than Hamhuis. In fact the left side od our D would look pretty damn good the next 3 to 4 years if Hutton continues to look as good as it has. I think Hamhuis stays as much as an emergence from Hutton at least offers us an option. 3 years from now, if Brisbois emerges, maybe then?

Edler Tanev

Hamhuis xxxxxxx

Hutton yyyyyyyy

Where x is cuurently Corrado (or Bart on his off side), and y Weber.

Burr playing with the twins has far more to do with making the twins as effective as they can be than it does Burrows.

[Canuck Surfer]

Burr playing with the twins has far more to do with making the twins as effective as they can be than it does Burrows.

The Twins are pretty good. They'll be just fine if they worst we do is handcuff them with Radim.

Look, we all know why Burr is good with the Twins. He does a lot of the dirty work and has enough skills to keep up. I personally think a Burr / Sutter / Hansen line would be a great defensive line. And would score a lot of goals in counter attack.

But the idea was to formulate lines where we did not have to ask guys like Baertschi to start his career with us on a line where his primary responsibility was fore-checking and standing up D men on the boards.

[aGENT]

The Twins are pretty good. They'll be just fine if they worst we do is handcuff them with Radim.

Look, we all know why Burr is good with the Twins. He does a lot of the dirty work and has enough skills to keep up. I personally think a Burr / Sutter / Hansen line would be a great defensive line. And would score a lot of goals in counter attack.

But the idea was to formulate lines where we did not have to ask guys like Baertschi to start his career with us on a line where his primary responsibility was fore-checking and standing up D men on the boards.

It's not so much a matter of performance but punishment. They'll get points whichever of the two wingers is playing with them. That's not the concern.

They'll be less beat up at the end of the season with Burr on that line. Plain and simple.

Moving Vrbata down also spreads the O out more which helps minimize us being as much of a one line team. Which also helps with less punishment on the twins.

[oldnews]

Bottom point: yes definitely GMJB has earned the credibility that he makes decisions at face value.

I also have wondered how playing Baertschi & Vrbata together makes sense. At least with a D first, match up centre. Being a 4 line team, earlier in the thread I proposed an alignment that played each on a scoring line (if McCann made it). Radim with the Twins. Baer with McCann & Virtanen. As much is made of Burr with the Twins. Burr is just as effective, its how he broke into the league, playing on a defensive pressure line. Guys like Burr, Hansen, Dorsett and Gaunce all have value as defensive forwards. And could play with Sutter and Bo as shut down lines. To me that would be the great thing about McCann making it; clearly defined scoring and match up lines & roles.

Good ideas I think Surfer - the only problem I see there is the reason they moved Vrbata off the Sedins line - Benning notes that it was to spread out the scoring, to balance the top 6 a bit more - but Henrik I think got more to the core/reality of it when he noted that with Vrbata on that line, it requires that he (or Dank) be the primary forechecking presence - because Vrbata does not really provide that - something they need. Henrik felt that as opposed to what Burrows brings, with Vrbadass, they wind up with the onus of creating space - as opposed to vice versa. This, needless to say, is less than ideal and puts more of a hard minutes onus on the Sedins - not really how they're ideally utilized. So - while Vrby will likely remain that ideal right handed sniper on the powerplay, I'll be surprised if they're matched up much together 5 on 5.

[poel90]

I'd like to think that at least Hutton actually still has the chance to make the team as he's playing with Sbisa tonight. I'd be surprised if they would plan to split up Hamhuis/Weber or Edler/Tanev. So for Hutton to play with Sbisa to me is a good thing. Quite obviously they're still looking for defenseman number 6 who will most likely play with Sbisa.

That said, I can find very little sense in tonights forward combinations. Vey isn't gonna be the teams 2nd or 3rd Center and as a 4th liner he's not gonna play with Burrows or Hansen. Virtanen also surely isn't gonna play with Baertschi or Horvat. Should he make the team which to me is highly unlikely, he'll be on the 4th line.