Discussion: Baertschi losing favour with Willie

[Hairy Kneel]

Baers really belongs in Uticato work on his goalscoring and toughen up some more...Cracknell is a perfect replacement to put toughness where we need it.Amongst the other young guns.

I know about waivers but being entitled because of a 2nd draft pick is on JB hope JB figures out what to do.

[canucklehead44]

Last year I described Linden Vey as surface mould. His play was concerning on the surface, and everybody was freaking out. Looked behind the wall, and yes there was rot. One of the worst corsi's on the team with low quality of competition and high offensive zone starts. 

We again got some surface mould with Sven Baertschi. Look behind the walk and things are fine, no need to panic. His corsi numbers are great, and so far offensively he has been "un-lucky". While I am not saying he is going to be a great player for us, he is not hurting the team. Give him time to develop. Scrape, paint, and lets get ourselves a solid offensive player. 

[Alflives]

Last year I described Linden Vey as surface mould. His play was concerning on the surface, and everybody was freaking out. Looked behind the wall, and yes there was rot. One of the worst corsi's on the team with low quality of competition and high offensive zone starts. 

We again got some surface mould with Sven Baertschi. Look behind the walk and things are fine, no need to panic. His corsi numbers are great, and so far offensively he has been "un-lucky". While I am not saying he is going to be a great player for us, he is not hurting the team. Give him time to develop. Scrape, paint, and lets get ourselves a solid offensive player. 

wow!  Excellent post.  I'm learning more about the value of analytics.  I really appreciate your comparison between the two players and the extended metaphor.  Those combined made it really easy to understand your point.  

are your stats indicating Baer is similar to the Twins when they were young?  I remember them, visually, looking out of sorts, but they were not minus players either, so we're not hurting our team.

[Googlie]

In his Arizona comments (don't remember if pre or postgame) WD was musing about Sven and Jared together on the pp as a second unit.  Vision and finish - the perfect combination.

[Alflives]

In his Arizona comments (don't remember if pre or postgame) WD was musing about Sven and Jared together on the pp as a second unit.  Vision and finish - the perfect combination.

and Bo as the net front presence.  Who would the D be?  Hutton and Tanev?

[canucklehead44]

wow!  Excellent post.  I'm learning more about the value of analytics.  I really appreciate your comparison between the two players and the extended metaphor.  Those combined made it really easy to understand your point.  

are your stats indicating Baer is similar to the Twins when they were young?  I remember them, visually, looking out of sorts, but they were not minus players either, so we're not hurting our team.

In some ways a bit, at least from a skill perspective. I've watched around 90% of the games the Sedins have played since coming into the NHL. Sven's passing game is there, and he is also a strong stickhandler. His speed is a bit better, but I wouldn't call it one of his strengths.

HUGE difference is that the Twins throughout their entire career have spent a lot of time along the boards. Playing the cycle game made them effective early on. Physically though they were weak, and got manhandled on a nightly basis. This would happen to Baertschi, but the big difference is he doesn't battle along the boards nearly as much. 

I got absolutely ripped apart for defending the Sedins early in their career. The skill was there, it just took time. I hope there is some patience with Baertschi. It is only 9 games in. 

 

[Alflives]

In some ways a bit, at least from a skill perspective. I've watched around 90% of the games the Sedins have played since coming into the NHL. Sven's passing game is there, and he is also a strong stickhandler. His speed is a bit better, but I wouldn't call it one of his strengths.

HUGE difference is that the Twins throughout their entire career have spent a lot of time along the boards. Playing the cycle game made them effective early on. Physically though they were weak, and got manhandled on a nightly basis. This would happen to Baertschi, but the big difference is he doesn't battle along the boards nearly as much. 

I got absolutely ripped apart for defending the Sedins early in their career. The skill was there, it just took time. I hope there is some patience with Baertschi. It is only 9 games in. 

 

our management, whether they want to or not, look to be forced into patience.  Unlike Vey (the other second rounder) Baer would be scooped up if put on waivers for purposes of sending him down.  

[canucklehead44]

our management, whether they want to or not, look to be forced into patience.  Unlike Vey (the other second rounder) Baer would be scooped up if put on waivers for purposes of sending him down.  

100%. He is kind of damaged goods after Calgary hampered his development.

He was a difference maker in the Calder Cup run last year and deserved a good crack at the NHL. In an ideal world, he would probably play half the season in each league, alternating call-ups with Gaunce, Grenier, Shinkaruk and Jensen. Probably with Baertschi this year, and Vey last is like you said, we are forced into patience.  

I hate this waiver rule, should be changed to 25 as that seems to be the age a player makes it or not. Detroit drafts mostly out of college and Europe, so their players turn NA pro at 21 or 22 and put in two or three more years in the AHL getting occasional call-ups until ready. 

[Hairy Kneel]

yes the waiver rule hurts the league in general and those young players that need more training

it handcuffs rosters for sure ...too bad

[Alflives]

100%. He is kind of damaged goods after Calgary hampered his development.

He was a difference maker in the Calder Cup run last year and deserved a good crack at the NHL. In an ideal world, he would probably play half the season in each league, alternating call-ups with Gaunce, Grenier, Shinkaruk and Jensen. Probably with Baertschi this year, and Vey last is like you said, we are forced into patience.  

I hate this waiver rule, should be changed to 25 as that seems to be the age a player makes it or not. Detroit drafts mostly out of college and Europe, so their players turn NA pro at 21 or 22 and put in two or three more years in the AHL getting occasional call-ups until ready. 

I guess from the players' perspective it's a way to collect the bigger pay check.  I bet Corrado is a lot happier getting his NHL salary sitting in the press box in TO than he would be playing minutes in Utica.  For fans and team building though, I certainly agree with you.

[Dancin'Droid]

I guess from the players' perspective it's a way to collect the bigger pay check.  I bet Corrado is a lot happier getting his NHL salary sitting in the press box in TO than he would be playing minutes in Utica.  For fans and team building though, I certainly agree with you.

If the player was on a one-way contract then they would still get paid NHL salary in the AHL but they still would rather be on the NHL than the AHL.

[Vanisleryan]

I say send him down....I highly doubt he gets claimed.  He's not physical, he lacks vision, and he's a finisher who can't finish...all this = passenger.  If he occupies a roster spot and they send Jake down then the team as a whole is worse not better.  Jakes points will come but he is providing something we dont have enough of and that is brute force.  What I think of Sven is simple...I'd rather have Mayson Raymond. ..oh wait do think Burke would do that trade....getter done trader Jim.

[higgyfan]

I guess from the players' perspective it's a way to collect the bigger pay check.  I bet Corrado is a lot happier getting his NHL salary sitting in the press box in TO than he would be playing minutes in Utica.  For fans and team building though, I certainly agree with you.

He may like the extra $, but I don't think any pro athlete likes to sit and watch their team play.  For Frankie's sake, I hope he starts playing again, even if it's in the AHL.  He's far to young to be sitting for long periods.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

yes the waiver rule hurts the league in general and those young players that need more training

it handcuffs rosters for sure ...too bad

The Canucks new they'd be in this position, only likely expected he'd have made a bigger impact by now. I still expect a decent season and production by the end of the year. He'll get there.

[Yukoncanuck87]

Holy cow people he's a rookie let him learn n make mistakes. Aside from the 3rd period mishaps I'm really  impressed with the teams overall play. This is what u call a youth movement so take a seat n enjoy the old core disappear. I believe Baertschi is exactly the way the nhl's top talent is trending n that's an advantage for the Canucks but that's just my opinion.

[Hairy Kneel]

He can/should be learning in Utica.

[Fred65]

Holy cow people he's a rookie let him learn n make mistakes. Aside from the 3rd period mishaps I'm really  impressed with the teams overall play. This is what u call a youth movement so take a seat n enjoy the old core disappear. I believe Baertschi is exactly the way the nhl's top talent is trending n that's an advantage for the Canucks but that's just my opinion.

Let him learn from his mistakes. That's the entire point of (A) a farm team...learn there (B) competition for roster spots ...if you can't do it we have some one who can

[Erik Karlsson]

I say send him down....I highly doubt he gets claimed.  He's not physical, he lacks vision, and he's a finisher who can't finish...all this = passenger.  If he occupies a roster spot and they send Jake down then the team as a whole is worse not better.  Jakes points will come but he is providing something we dont have enough of and that is brute force.  What I think of Sven is simple...I'd rather have Mayson Raymond. ..oh wait do think Burke would do that trade....getter done trader Jim.

Thanks for showing you know nothing about Sven...

He lacks vision? That's one of his strong suits and has some of the best vision on the team.

He was never a finisher? He's a playmaker who can also finish... big difference.

[Alflives]

 

Thanks for showing you know nothing about Sven...

He lacks vision? That's one of his strong suits and has some of the best vision on the team.

He was never a finisher? He's a playmaker who can also finish... big difference.

yup.  He's a really good player, who needs time to develop a bit more strength on the puck, much like the Twins needed to do when they were 22.

[alfstonker]

I say send him down....I highly doubt he gets claimed.  He's not physical, he lacks vision, and he's a finisher who can't finish...all this = passenger.  If he occupies a roster spot and they send Jake down then the team as a whole is worse not better.  Jakes points will come but he is providing something we dont have enough of and that is brute force.  What I think of Sven is simple...I'd rather have Mayson Raymond. ..oh wait do think Burke would do that trade....getter done trader Jim.

While I think this is too strong I must say I was much happier with Cracknell's game than Sven's.

It is a pity he has to pass waivers as I think he needs a whole season under Coach Green to bring his game up to NHL level.

He never looks like he has enough time, now compare that with Hutton and more and more now, McCann and you can see why he is being snuffed out on the ice.