Crabcakes Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Baertschi certainly doesn't like sitting in the press box. Maybe it'll set a fire under him. I'm not sure that urgency is exactly what he needs in his game though. While I think this is too strong I must say I was much happier with Cracknell's game than Sven's. It is a pity he has to pass waivers as I think he needs a whole season under Coach Green to bring his game up to NHL level. He never looks like he has enough time, now compare that with Hutton and more and more now, McCann and you can see why he is being snuffed out on the ice.I think you may be right here. Maybe it's a case of rushing that is keeping him off the score sheet. But, if his underlying numbers are good, the choice is down to being patient or taking a chance and trying to send him to Utica.Last year I described Linden Vey as surface mould. His play was concerning on the surface, and everybody was freaking out. Looked behind the wall, and yes there was rot. One of the worst corsi's on the team with low quality of competition and high offensive zone starts. We again got some surface mould with Sven Baertschi. Look behind the walk and things are fine, no need to panic. His corsi numbers are great, and so far offensively he has been "un-lucky". While I am not saying he is going to be a great player for us, he is not hurting the team. Give him time to develop. Scrape, paint, and lets get ourselves a solid offensive player. If he were in Utica, he would be one of the lead dogs. Maybe if he had that kind of responsibility, he would develop better. He would be getting twice the ice time as well. He was putting up numbers at a point a game pace in the regular season last year (although it was only 15 games).I think they're in a bit of a jam with Baer. They'll lose him on waivers because he has good potential and corsi etc if they try to send him down. If they keep him up, they have to be patient with slow development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Holy cow people he's a rookie let him learn n make mistakes. Aside from the 3rd period mishaps I'm really impressed with the teams overall play. This is what u call a youth movement so take a seat n enjoy the old core disappear. I believe Baertschi is exactly the way the nhl's top talent is trending n that's an advantage for the Canucks but that's just my opinion.He was drafted in 2011 and has been back and forth from the minors to the NHL ever since. I hardly see him as a "Rookie" compared to McCann, Virtanen, Hutton and even Bo. Who have all coincidentally have outplayed him since their short time in the NHL. Players such as Vey, Baertchi and Jensen for some reason have not been able to transition to the NHL as smoothly as the above mentioned. There is a big difference between the 2 groups of young players and some people fail to see the difference between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuongo Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Sven is no way near as bad as you all make him out to be. Jesus christ you all are brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 OK - let's compare to date:Bo: NHL career ..... 79 games, 14 goals, 13 assists, 27 points and -13 (plus 1 goal and 3 assists in 6 playoff games)Bae: NHL career..... 78 games, 10 goals, 23 assists, 33 points and -4 (0 - 0 in 2 playoff games after 8 and 7 in Utica's run)About a saw-off I would sayThen there's Vey: NHL career..... 93 games, 10 goals, 19 assists, 29 points and -1 (0 - 0 in 1 playoff game.and for comparison:first 75 games, Daniel: 20 goals, 14 assists for 34 points and -3 (4 playoff games with 1g and 2a and -1)first 82 games, Henrik: 9 goals, 20 assists for 29 points and -2 (4 playoff games with 0g and 4a with +1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think Baerstchi needs to watch Vrbata and model himself after him as I think that is Baerstchi's upside but with more of a combination of passing and shooting rather than Vrbata's shoot first mentality.What I mean is that they both have speed and good puck skills and a decent amount of strength. If Baerstchi can learn to be a bit more aggressive on the puck and work on his strength, he can definitely play at Vrbata's level.Guys like Horvat, Gaunce, McCaan has looked good right off the bat because they have always had a high Hockey IQ all their lives. They have the skillset and the intelligence to match.Guys like Virtanen and Baerstchi are more like raw prospects that you have to develop and teach as they have the skillset but need to learn how to play at a higher level. I think we'll be fine as it looks like Benning, Linden and company see this as well .I understood to what detail our executive team think in terms of player development when I read about their plan for Cole Cassels. As a result, I think our young guys are in good shape and its great that we have some guys that can jump in right away but we also have guys that are longer projects that will look extremely good in 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Baertschi is a stop-gap until Lucic signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 OK - let's compare to date:Bo: NHL career ..... 79 games, 14 goals, 13 assists, 27 points and -13 (plus 1 goal and 3 assists in 6 playoff games)Bae: NHL career..... 78 games, 10 goals, 23 assists, 33 points and -4 (0 - 0 in 2 playoff games after 8 and 7 in Utica's run)About a saw-off I would sayThen there's Vey: NHL career..... 93 games, 10 goals, 19 assists, 29 points and -1 (0 - 0 in 1 playoff game.and for comparison:first 75 games, Daniel: 20 goals, 14 assists for 34 points and -3 (4 playoff games with 1g and 2a and -1)first 82 games, Henrik: 9 goals, 20 assists for 29 points and -2 (4 playoff games with 0g and 4a with +1) If only it was only about the numbers though. Baertschi is struggling on the boards. If you are a winger struggling on the boards you have a problem. Coping with that problem, is to play at a lower level until you master the art and develop more physically. Are we going to let Baertschi take another player's place just because he needs time. Weaknesses are exploited in the NHL and that is why we have the A.Would you really prefer to send Gaunce, a guy who has done everything asked of him, just to accommodate Sven? Is that good management of resources?As for Danny and Hank, they played 3 seasons in the Swedish Elite League, against men, before they were 20. Danny and Hank are polar opposites to Sven when it comes to playing off/on the boards and puck possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think Baerstchi needs to watch Vrbata and model himself after him as I think that is Baerstchi's upside but with more of a combination of passing and shooting rather than Vrbata's shoot first mentality.What I mean is that they both have speed and good puck skills and a decent amount of strength. If Baerstchi can learn to be a bit more aggressive on the puck and work on his strength, he can definitely play at Vrbata's level.Guys like Horvat, Gaunce, McCaan has looked good right off the bat because they have always had a high Hockey IQ all their lives. They have the skillset and the intelligence to match.Guys like Virtanen and Baerstchi are more like raw prospects that you have to develop and teach as they have the skillset but need to learn how to play at a higher level. I think we'll be fine as it looks like Benning, Linden and company see this as well .I understood to what detail our executive team think in terms of player development when I read about their plan for Cole Cassels. As a result, I think our young guys are in good shape and its great that we have some guys that can jump in right away but we also have guys that are longer projects that will look extremely good in 2-3 years.this is mostly good except Baer can't skate like Vrby. Virtanen skates great, Baer not so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 As for Danny and Hank, they played 3 seasons in the Swedish Elite League, against men, before they were 20. Danny and Hank are polar opposites to Sven when it comes to playing off/on the boards and puck possession.ofc they are now. But they weren't then, in their rookie season. I was at every home game that year, and they were muscled off the puck quite regularly. Their saving grace was their incredible intuition where the other was at any time - and that's something rare that comes usually after many years of 2 players playing together (Trottier/Bossy, Gretzky/Kurri, even our own Sundstrom/Tanti{ - the twins were born with that.I'm not saying that Bae is another Danny - just that the naysayers always look for the negatives, not at the whole body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Would you really prefer to send Gaunce, a guy who has done everything asked of him, just to accommodate Sven? Is that good management of resources?Yes it is. We'd lose Baertschi on waivers - Gaunce doesn't need waived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 ofc they are now. But they weren't then, in their rookie season. I was at every home game that year, and they were muscled off the puck quite regularly. Their saving grace was their incredible intuition where the other was at any time - and that's something rare that comes usually after many years of 2 players playing together (Trottier/Bossy, Gretzky/Kurri, even our own Sundstrom/Tanti{ - the twins were born with that.I'm not saying that Bae is another Danny - just that the naysayers always look for the negatives, not at the whole body of work.I bow to your eye witness account Googlie as I wasn't there, however the Swedish League was the toughest in Europe back then, it probably still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 however the Swedish League was the toughest in Europe back then, it probably still is.I agree. And with the larger rinks over there board-play skill isn't as important as puck-handling skills .... more time to make plays, avoid checks, etc. Most of the memorable Swedes were centers (Sundin, Naslund, Forsberg, Alfredson, our own Gradin and Sundstrom, Zettereberg) or puck-moving defensemen (Salming, Ohlund, Lidstrom, Larsen)see: http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/nationality/swedish-nhl-players-career-stats.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yes it is. We'd lose Baertschi on waivers - Gaunce doesn't need waived. Yep, no way he gets past the "your trash is our treasure" team of the league in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yep, no way he gets past the "your trash is our treasure" team of the league in Toronto.It sure is helping their cause. LOL. There is a reason why these guys are placed on waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Baertschi needs to play on the 2nd unit pp. The guy has skills and could really shine with the extra space. Instead we have Burrows and Sutter on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 OK - let's compare to date:Bo: NHL career ..... 79 games, 14 goals, 13 assists, 27 points and -13 (plus 1 goal and 3 assists in 6 playoff games)Bae: NHL career..... 78 games, 10 goals, 23 assists, 33 points and -4 (0 - 0 in 2 playoff games after 8 and 7 in Utica's run)About a saw-off I would sayThen there's Vey: NHL career..... 93 games, 10 goals, 19 assists, 29 points and -1 (0 - 0 in 1 playoff game.and for comparison:first 75 games, Daniel: 20 goals, 14 assists for 34 points and -3 (4 playoff games with 1g and 2a and -1)first 82 games, Henrik: 9 goals, 20 assists for 29 points and -2 (4 playoff games with 0g and 4a with +1) To be accurate, I think you have to include the age of the player. Vey and Baer come nowhere close to Bo at 20yrs old. I am certain that by the time Bo reaches 23 + 24, he will have blasted past the other two.I like Baer as a playmaker on a team that has few and want him to be given a lot more time. But lets face it, if he doesn't make use of that time this year, he'll be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 He was drafted in 2011 and has been back and forth from the minors to the NHL ever since. I hardly see him as a "Rookie" compared to McCann, Virtanen, Hutton and even Bo. Who have all coincidentally have outplayed him since their short time in the NHL. Players such as Vey, Baertchi and Jensen for some reason have not been able to transition to the NHL as smoothly as the above mentioned. There is a big difference between the 2 groups of young players and some people fail to see the difference between them.See Grabner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 See Grabner.Grabner can at least kill penalties, because of his skating. Baer adds nothing if he's not getting points. I do like him though. He just needs to hold on to the puck, so he can control the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Grabner can at least kill penalties, because of his skating. Baer adds nothing if he's not getting points. I do like him though. He just needs to hold on to the puck, so he can control the game.I was referring to his running out of time for making the team. These guys seem to take longer to develop; sometimes not until their in the mid 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Baertschi is a stop-gap until Lucic signs.That makes no sense, because we could just play Jensen on the left side, and saved a draft pick for a D-man. Or even Shinkaruk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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