Christopher Tanev | #8 | D

[WeneedLumme]

On August 11, 2020 at 5:46 PM, SilentSam said:

I would say do not re-sign , his 4-5 mil can be used to secure another UFA perhaps that is bigger better stronger, so on. 

 

So for the same price as Tanev's last contract you actually believe that we can sign another's team's UFA that is bigger better and stronger than Tanev? That is completely unrealistic.

[Wanless]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

But can the team afford to keep him? 

 

They are tight against the cap - and they can't afford to keep everyone unless some players take discounts. 

 

I think with Ferlands career being done and on LTIR all the players can be re-signed if a couple players are buried in the AHL to make the cap at the beginning of the year and the caps are reasonable.

 

It's also possible to move baertschi, might need to attach a pick. But that's clearing 5 mil between the 2

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

I remember when you use to bash Luongo, and Edler, and and and. You always seem to have a whipping boy, you just seemed to pick probably the most unwhippable guy lol. Tanev rarely has a bad game, is consistently a plus player, even when the Canucks were terrible. You're wrong. This team is not as good without Tanev. Tanman has covered for Hughes so many times.

I’ve said we should have moved Luongo before we did,  I said we should have moved Edler 3 years ago, and we should have,  and I said we should have moved Tanev for E Kane 3 years ago to Buffalo , Tanev was the player asked for to complete the deal.

i stand by all of those opinions.   I’ve never had a whipping boy,.  But I see the mistakes and hesitation in Tanevs game.. even the block shot last night,  which just missed, he gave 20 feet of gap , time and space on a 2 on 2 situation,.

another in his own end where he gets first puck control and coughs it up,.  Usually flung away blindly in his own end.. yes, I see his mistakes, and there are better players for 4-5 mil..  This his UFA year will want more when the league is changing mid stream to offer RFA’s bigger money and longer term in a more youthful league.

 

 I’ll leave your comfort of Chris Tanev and insecurities of not wishing to move a player through attrition or trade to allow something better to appear.

 

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Wanless said:

I think with Ferlands career being done and on LTIR all the players can be re-signed if a couple players are buried in the AHL to make the cap at the beginning of the year and the caps are reasonable.

 

It's also possible to move baertschi, might need to attach a pick. But that's clearing 5 mil between the 2

Do we have a pick to attach to Bärtschi that another team would take? 

 

JB's given away so many picks recently, it's hard to know what we've got left. I know we don't have a lot for this coming draft. But maybe next year's draft? 

 

[Canucks Curse]

Tanev giving it his all right now, he may ask for 6 million, lets see how playoffs go...Marky doing ok, Toffoli injured

 

we have 18 mill in cap space with the following ppl unsigned

Toffoli

Marky

Tannev

Virt

Gaudette

Stecher

Motte

Leivo

Fantanberg

Domingue

 

OK a few things:

Ferland- very sad but likely will retire and get league compensation, the $3.5mill will come off our books i think

With Miller, Boesser, Pearson killing it in the playoffs I am doubtful we will keep virtanen and will likley trade him, probably for picks ( I could see 2 2nds and a 3rd, or a late first)- especially as we have great organizational depth with Podz, Hogz, Lind, McDonut, Gadjo 

 

Thats 4.75 mill right there

Domingue does not need to be replaced, Leivo has no bargaining power- if we re-sign him its for cheap

Fanatnberg is gone, we do not need him.

 

Now thats 22.75 mill we have:

 

Marky 5.75 mill

Tannev 5 mill

Toffoli 5mill

Stecher 3 mill

Gaudette 1.5 mill

Motte 1.2 mill

 

= 21.45 

= 1.3 million to spare

 

The cap relief provided by Ferland's imminent retirement is critical to us.

 

 

Also consider other potential factors- Sutter is playing really well for the canucks- I bet a we find a team to take him easily- either a contender with some cap retained or a rebuilding team who wants his leadership - NJ or DET... for a 2nd!!! ( a 3rd easily) theres 4.375 schmill- thats the beauty of having players play well... and WTF will happen with LOUIE? we can always utica him for a million in cap space. I think we will be fine and trading virtanen is a good move I think, no room for him with Toffoli who fit like a glove and the young kids coming up behind him

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

So for the same price as Tanev's last contract you actually believe that we can sign another's team's UFA that is bigger better and stronger than Tanev? That is completely unrealistic.

There are more players than Tanev to release than Tanev as a 1-1 ratio in replacement.

... and future wise let’s not forget Edler is gone in a year.. 

Hypothetically,.   Heres 3 players on D that might make room for, let’s say a player of Petrangelo’s caliber..

Fantenburg 1m   Tanev 4.5 m.   Stetcher. 2.3m. ( 7.8m).    

 

Hughes Myers Edler Petrangelo 

 

 

This also leaves room for the D men in our system to appear,  or risk losing them if we get tied up with contract with another aging player.  Rathbone, Joulevi, Rafferty , Tryamkin, Breisbois.  ... mix and match any of these 5 into the Hypothetical 4 above.. and create the time and space for Edlers departure,  keeping a younger less expensive D man out of development, and clearing 6m at that point in time with Erikssons ?? (I think).

 

our D needs to progress, not stay a constant..  and the constant of Tanev even as a 2nd pairing D man are his injuries, time lost creating inconsistent pairings, lack of physical presence and strength, and his age as a UFA in a league that is putting more money on its future to keep,  than its past.

 

 

[theo5789]

55 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

There are more players than Tanev to release than Tanev as a 1-1 ratio in replacement.

... and future wise let’s not forget Edler is gone in a year.. 

Hypothetically,.   Heres 3 players on D that might make room for, let’s say a player of Petrangelo’s caliber..

Fantenburg 1m   Tanev 4.5 m.   Stetcher. 2.3m. ( 7.8m).    

 

Hughes Myers Edler Petrangelo 

 

 

This also leaves room for the D men in our system to appear,  or risk losing them if we get tied up with contract with another aging player.  Rathbone, Joulevi, Rafferty , Tryamkin, Breisbois.  ... mix and match any of these 5 into the Hypothetical 4 above.. and create the time and space for Edlers departure,  keeping a younger less expensive D man out of development, and clearing 6m at that point in time with Erikssons ?? (I think).

 

our D needs to progress, not stay a constant..  and the constant of Tanev even as a 2nd pairing D man are his injuries, time lost creating inconsistent pairings, lack of physical presence and strength, and his age as a UFA in a league that is putting more money on its future to keep,  than its past.

 

 

Unlikely. He logged the most minutes last night in our first real playoff game. Still a beast of a player. He signed his contract to help us (and him) so we don't have to protect him for the expansion while he controls his on destiny in which is to stay in Vancouver. He's got at least 2-3 years more after his contract is done (whether we sign him to those years or go on a year by year basis will be seen.

 

Fantenberg, Tanev, and Stecher are already not included in next year's equation at the moment. We don't add cap by not signing them. We cannot afford Pietrangelo without some major shakeup of the lineup that is next to impossible to accomplish. The whole aging player thing is overstated and Pietrangelo is the same age as Tanev. Yes Pietrangelo is a higher caliber player than Tanev, but if Pietrangelo runs into injury issues or his play drops off, we are more tied down with him especially considering Pietrangelo will likely come with term potentially taking him to 37 years old on a 8+/- million dollar contract. There is still inherent risk signing him as there is to Tanev who has known chemistry here and can play healthier hockey as the depth of the team fills in allowing him to ease his minutes.

[Whorvat]

2 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Do we have a pick to attach to Bärtschi that another team would take? 

 

JB's given away so many picks recently, it's hard to know what we've got left. I know we don't have a lot for this coming draft. But maybe next year's draft? 

 

Given away? 

[5Fivehole0]

5 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I’ve said we should have moved Luongo before we did,  I said we should have moved Edler 3 years ago, and we should have,  and I said we should have moved Tanev for E Kane 3 years ago to Buffalo , Tanev was the player asked for to complete the deal.

i stand by all of those opinions.   I’ve never had a whipping boy,.  But I see the mistakes and hesitation in Tanevs game.. even the block shot last night,  which just missed, he gave 20 feet of gap , time and space on a 2 on 2 situation,.

another in his own end where he gets first puck control and coughs it up,.  Usually flung away blindly in his own end.. yes, I see his mistakes, and there are better players for 4-5 mil..  This his UFA year will want more when the league is changing mid stream to offer RFA’s bigger money and longer term in a more youthful league.

 

 I’ll leave your comfort of Chris Tanev and insecurities of not wishing to move a player through attrition or trade to allow something better to appear.

 

 

 

 

Okay... Except Luongo was an All-Star after traded him. Edler has been putting up solid numbers since his contract year. E.Kanes price was a lot higher than Tanev. If you don't see how Tanev has made Hughes life easier, you don't know much about hockey. Even Tanevs advanced stats, fancy stats, laymen stats, and caiman stats disagree with you. The guys a stud. 

But now that you're done bashing him because he's so terrible, we should get a 1st a 5th a 12th and 23 prospects for him right? 

Whats going on Sam? The team is killing it right now... Tanev clinched the series vs Minnesota and is uncharacteristically putting up meaningful points. The guy literally just scored the most meaningful goal of his career and instilled a confidence only experience can give you.  

Also - Luongo got us Markstrom, and Florida never won ANYTHING with Luongo. Canucks win the trade.

 

  

3 hours ago, Whorvat said:

Given away? 

Yeeted, if you will /s

Edited August 13, 2020 by 5Fivehole0

[SilentSam]

53 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Okay... Except Luongo was an All-Star after traded him. Edler has been putting up solid numbers since his contract year. E.Kanes price was a lot higher than Tanev. If you don't see how Tanev has made Hughes life easier, you don't know much about hockey. Even Tanevs advanced stats, fancy stats, laymen stats, and caiman stats disagree with you. The guys a stud. 

But now that you're done bashing him because he's so terrible, we should get a 1st a 5th a 12th and 23 prospects for him right? 

Whats going on Sam? The team is killing it right now... Tanev clinched the series vs Minnesota and is uncharacteristically putting up meaningful points. The guy literally just scored the most meaningful goal of his career and instilled a confidence only experience can give you.  

Also - Luongo got us Markstrom, and Florida never won ANYTHING with Luongo. Canucks win the trade.

 

  

Yeeted, if you will /s

I’m all about constant change,.  Like I said those players you claim I was bashing,.  I was looking at as opportunities to get better.

so you can agree it was good to move Luongo,.  No?

Do you not think opportunities exist that could have been realized, even though they weren’t?

Your grasping for reasons to prove me wrong,    And I’m laughing.

i have my opinions , and no matter how much they hurt your feelings,  those opinions will not change.

If you can’t be progressive with your team outside of drafting, you get a status quo team..    an example of that is this year’s acquisition of JT Miller,  which had a lot of posters and journalists pooping their pants lol.

sure, go ahead ride Tanev until he turns to dust,.  But I think most of him as a 5m player or better has turned to that.

I’ll leave you with your feel good feelings, and a Stanley Cup out of the ordinary.

dont get me wrong, I’d be happy to see this team win it,  it’s more of the gainful experience for everyone a# a group that will carry them over the next 5 years,.. without a Tanev, of course

Edited August 13, 2020 by SilentSam

[5Fivehole0]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

I’m all about constant change,.  Like I said those players you claim I was bashing,.  I was looking at as opportunities to get better.

so you can agree it was good to move Luongo,.  No?

Do you not think opportunities exist that could have been realized, even though they weren’t?

Your grasping for reasons to prove me wrong,    And I’m laughing.

i have my opinions , and no matter how much they hurt your feelings,  those opinions will not change.

If you can’t be progressive with your team outside of drafting, you get a status quo team..    an example of that is this year’s acquisition of JT Miller,  which had a lot of posters and journalists pooping their pants lol.

sure, go ahead ride Tanev until he turns to dust,.  But I think most of him as a 5m player or better has turned to that.

I’ll leave you with your feel good feelings, and a Stanley Cup out of the ordinary.

dont get me wrong, I’d be happy to see this team win it,  it’s more of the gainful experience for everyone a# a group that will carry them over the next 5 years,.. without a Tanev, of course

K

[stanleysteamersmyl]

Tanev thinks he is a older version of Quinn Hughes.  OT winner and 5 points in 5 games.  

[CanuckCup2022]

Tanev is a very good defenseman. Some "fans" don't know what they are watching I guess.

[Kevin Biestra]

6 points in 6 games.  After all that Rod Langway over the years he's letting out his inner Paul Coffey.

[Canadian]

 

DAD

 

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Provost]

Benning’s comments make it pretty clear to me that Tanev will be re-signed.

 

Apparently his wife is local and they are planning to live in Vancouver permanently in the offseason going forward even if he doesn’t sign here.

 

I would have handicapped him as the 3rd priority after Markstrom and Toffoli, but now I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tanev sign first.  If he is willing to take a hometown discount, that is a good contract to have done before the tougher negotiations.

 

$4 million x 4 years or a higher cap hit with less term are kind of the top end I think we should be offering.  It would require him getting a NMC for expansion though as he could probably get more on UFA market.  Anything more and we should probably move on.

 

Interstingly, the word is that Pietangrelo’s contract miggt start with a 6 instead of a 7... so the market could be pretty depressed for D this summer.  Even a guy like Barrie could end up signing a 1 year deal somewhere and try to cash in once expansion opens up the market and potential suitors more.

[Provost]

TSN is talking about how agents around the league and contacts are saying Tanev isn’t going to command the dollars his camp thinks.

 

Apparently on the open market they are looking at a $30 million over 5-6 years... but the market is more like $4.5 x4.  At the lower price, we could offer that and keep him.... or even a few less dollars and the same term for him to stay where he wants to.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Provost

[BPA]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

TSN is talking about how agents around the league and contacts are saying Tanev isn’t going to command the dollars his camp thinks.

 

Apparently on the open market they are looking at a $30 million over 5-6 years... but the market is more like $4.5 x4.  At the lower price, we could offer that and keep him.... or even a few less dollars and the same term for him to stay where he wants to.

It's cuz its a flat cap (for a couple of years at least) and Covid world (little to no gate revenues).

Should drive prices down for all UFA except the Tier 1 players.

[Provost]

52 minutes ago, BPA said:

It's cuz its a flat cap (for a couple of years at least) and Covid world (little to no gate revenues).

Should drive prices down for all UFA except the Tier 1 players.

Yep, in reality it is probably more like 5 years of flat cap.

 

With the new calculation, they are using two years of revenue history rather than just one.  That means you have to have two GOOD years to significantly increase the salary cap.  It is also a near certainty that the real escrow for the next two years is going to be higher than what is being clawed back from the players, so there will be a time period to pay that back and not raise the cap much until it is.