Fanuck Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: I would disagree. He has a massive hole in his game that is caused by slow foot speed. He has trouble containing defenders in a stop start situation. Once up to speed he's an excellent smooth skating defender but he is far from agile and it will be a large hurdle for him to overcome to be a quality defender in the NHL. Maybe, but people said BoHo would never reach his full potential because of skating issues back when.......now, well......he's laughing.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, appleboy said: I think OJ will be a solid player just not a star. When you pick 7th you want to get a star type player. That is all I am saying. OJ is hopefully a top 4. I wanted Surgachev or how ever you spell it. I don't think he is a star either. By that logic there would be 7 new stars entering the league every year, which doesn't happen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, Fanuck said: Maybe, but people said BoHo would never reach his full potential because of skating issues back when.......now, well......he's laughing.... Exactly. People act as if a 20yo kid can't improve in virtually every area of his skill-set if he puts in the work and receives the right coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: Maybe, but people said BoHo would never reach his full potential because of skating issues back when.......now, well......he's laughing.... Bo is an outlier and not the norm. You rarely see guys improve their skating to the extent Bo did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Regarding Juolevi's footspeed, it was actually pretty good in his draft year but then regressed as he put on more weight. He was trying to bulk up to play in the NHL (McCann and Virtanen were doing this at the same time), but his game suffered as a result. He get's beat wide more often than he should and has trouble with quicker players. I think the key for him will be getting that quickness and agility back into his game, even if it means sacrificing some size. It shouldn't affect his strength too much and it would give him more time and space to make the plays he can make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Regarding Juolevi's footspeed, it was actually pretty good in his draft year but then regressed as he put on more weight. He was trying to bulk up to play in the NHL (McCann and Virtanen were doing this at the same time), but his game suffered as a result. He get's beat wide more often than he should and has trouble with quicker players. I think the key for him will be getting that quickness and agility back into his game, even if it means sacrificing some size. It shouldn't affect his strength too much and it would give him more time and space to make the plays he can make. Its all about development and players learn as they go along what works and what doesn't. Juolevi has also been hampered by injuries that has resulted in poorer conditioning and strength then ideal. Even though he was out for the year this summer should allow him to get fit and into good condition so that he's more prepared for the coming year then he has been in the last 2. I think he has a very good chance of being able to step in next year and be a key piece in a year or two. Its one of the main reasons Im hesitant to give Edler any more then 2 years with his next contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 3/9/2019 at 3:29 PM, tas said: part of me will always wonder if that was the hill trevor linden died on (successfully, with him pushing for michigan, jim and frank pushing for pro). IFDK what hill TL died on, but he was there to buffer management from the fans, media and an ownership that can get in the way. That's alot of reasons to leave in Van City. What I want to know is how mutual the split was. Did TL have enough and thought JB could handle things without him taking the heat? Looking forward to hearing the story when it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Juolevi's skating has been dissected by a handful of CDCers. Added weight is listed as a problem. First strides are listed as a problem. I have not seen OJ play this year, but the impression I got from various media/ commentators was that he was having trouble when good skaters went wide to his left. He was too slow to adjust. Then the surgery. Could the turning problem and the reason for the surgery not be the same issue ? PS.....last I heard ( 3/4 weeks ago ? ) he was on crutches. Any updates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40Dangles Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 hours ago, stawns said: There's a misconception, intentional or otherwise, that OJ has not been developing, when, in reality, he's been developing into a professional dman very, very well. Though he's had a cpl injuries, we should all be very happy with his Liiga season, which was outstanding, as well as his excellent first half in Utica. I wanted MT, but I had no issues with OJ and understood why JB picked him in that spot. He was, and is and elite level prospect who is developing into an excellent pro. Especially given our lack of high end defensive depth, he’s even more important to us. If he ends up anchoring the first or second pair for his career which he “should”, then he was the right pick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, SingleThorn said: Juolevi's skating has been dissected by a handful of CDCers. Added weight is listed as a problem. First strides are listed as a problem. I have not seen OJ play this year, but the impression I got from various media/ commentators was that he was having trouble when good skaters went wide to his left. He was too slow to adjust. Then the surgery. Could the turning problem and the reason for the surgery not be the same issue ? PS.....last I heard ( 3/4 weeks ago ? ) he was on crutches. Any updates ? I have a bad knee and I have troubles with certain moves. He maybe had something physical that was interfering with his mobility. Thus the surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, SingleThorn said: Juolevi's skating has been dissected by a handful of CDCers. Added weight is listed as a problem. First strides are listed as a problem. I have not seen OJ play this year, but the impression I got from various media/ commentators was that he was having trouble when good skaters went wide to his left. He was too slow to adjust. Then the surgery. Could the turning problem and the reason for the surgery not be the same issue ? PS.....last I heard ( 3/4 weeks ago ? ) he was on crutches. Any updates ? Then it's basically invalid LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 17 hours ago, appleboy said: I think OJ will be a solid player just not a star. When you pick 7th you want to get a star type player. That is all I am saying. OJ is hopefully a top 4. I wanted Surgachev or how ever you spell it. I don't think he is a star either. Going back 10 years. Looking at the players drafted 1-7, one can see very quickly that this is the hope but not the case. 2009 2013 2015 2016 Being the years that thus far have shown more stars than duds over the last 10 years in the 1-7 range. Truthfully, every draft is a crap shoot even at the #1 position (edmonton) http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: Going back 10 years. Looking at the players drafted 1-7, one can see very quickly that this is the hope but not the case. 2009 2013 2015 2016 Being the years that thus far have shown more stars than duds over the last 10 years in the 1-7 range. Truthfully, every draft is a crap shoot even at the #1 position (edmonton) http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html 2015 and 2016 were talked about for couple a years ahead. They new that they were going to be deep. They new that the top ten of those years were going to be special. That is why some of us started on the tank train in 2014. Rebuilding a team is some times about timing. Benning is a draft guru by what we are all told, he should have known. They are starting to think that next year could be another special year. Now is the time to prepare. Start accumulating picks for next year. It is why Toronto blew things up when they did. They lucked out at the draft but there was some solid talent at the top end no matter what happen in the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrCanuck94 Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Feels like I gotta keep posting the same thing in OJ threads because the same points come up, but: He was the #1 dman on his junior team, became the #1 dman on his adult Liiga team (at 19 years old), the #1 dman on his AHL team in the second best league in the world (at age 20). But he is a bust because he didn't make the NHL before being 20 years old. Or because the players drafted around him have played games which have no relation to his development. He has ran his team's power play at every level, he has very high hockey IQ and his passing skills are amazing. He makes mistakes on defence, young dmen do that, he'll learn from them. 1 2 2 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I listened to the things JB is most excited about with Hughes. He can transition the puck out of his zone, great first pass, a shot that gets thru and creates offence. Those were the same or similar statements around OJ. We have such a need for that type of player and more than one. So we have to draft these players because they are nearly impossible to aquire via any other means. Sure we could likely trade for a top d man, but say goodbye to Boeser, Bo or EP40. He will be 100% healthy for the start of next year. Let's give him like two months past the training camp and see how he is doing. Then we can finally see what we have in him as a player. PS before the 'we should have drafted Tkachuk' talk. Hows Deadmonton liking their draft with Poolparty as compared to Tkachuk? Hope OJ becomes the second best Finn in that draft, but makes it close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroCanuck Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 6 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Feels like I gotta keep posting the same thing in OJ threads because the same points come up, but: He was the #1 dman on his junior team, became the #1 dman on his adult Liiga team (at 19 years old), the #1 dman on his AHL team in the second best league in the world (at age 20). But he is a bust because he didn't make the NHL before being 20 years old. Or because the players drafted around him have played games which have no relation to his development. He has ran his team's power play at every level, he has very high hockey IQ and his passing skills are amazing. He makes mistakes on defence, young dmen do that, he'll learn from them. Very well said. God knows Vancouver media knows how to stir up crazy in this market. The key to this rebuild will be patience. We have a lot of good prospects developing that can fill out our team around our elite players. Boeser, Petey, Bo, Hughes and Demko are the leaders of our young growing core. On defense we have Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone who are all developing and could develop into top 4D. Offensively we have a lot of prospects developing. Top 6 potential players are rare, but we have Lind and Madden who could develop into those players. If we are patient we could see a great young core develop into an elite squad. Patience and Solid drafting, preferably a top line LW or Soderstrom this year with our first and a solid RD prospect with our second such as Seider. _____-Pettersson-Boeser............Goldobin, Madden, 2019 draft? Leivo-Horvat-_________..............Lind, 2019/2020 draft? Virtanen-Gaudette-MacEwen...........Lockwood, Gadjovich, Karlsson, Jasek, Motte, Sturm? Hughes-_____............2019/2020 draft?, Stecher Juolevi-Woo Hutton-Stecher............Rathbone, Chatfield, Tryamkin, Brisebois Need some more potential top 6 wingers and another solid RD prospect, but if we are patient and draft well we will see our empty slots slowly filled in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 7 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Feels like I gotta keep posting the same thing in OJ threads because the same points come up, but: He was the #1 dman on his junior team, became the #1 dman on his adult Liiga team (at 19 years old), the #1 dman on his AHL team in the second best league in the world (at age 20). But he is a bust because he didn't make the NHL before being 20 years old. Or because the players drafted around him have played games which have no relation to his development. He has ran his team's power play at every level, he has very high hockey IQ and his passing skills are amazing. He makes mistakes on defence, young dmen do that, he'll learn from them. I love Juolevi as a prospect but a lot of this is just misinformation. Most who are London Knight fans will say that Mete was the #1 Dman on that team and played many more minutes than Juolevi. Juolevi fans will say that because he had to babysit Bouchard but Juolevi was on the second pairing so it's not quite accurate to say he was the #1 Dman on the team Timmonen was the #1 Dman in Liiga. Juolevi played the most in the playoffs because Timmonen was injured. Very impressive for Juolevi to elevate his game to be the guy but he only became the #1 guy because Timmonen got injured. He was the #1 offensive dman in Utica but he also was leading the team and the league for having the worst +/-. I don't think he was their number 1 defender. Pretty sure Sautner would have been considered the #1 defender. With the injuries Juolevi has had and the question marks with his defending it's very reasonable for people to be hesitant about him being an NHL defender. He has some elite abilities that should allow him to be an NHL defender but he has some big hurdles to overcome and is far from a guarantee. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Ihatetomatoes said: I love Juolevi as a prospect but a lot of this is just misinformation. Most who are London Knight fans will say that Mete was the #1 Dman on that team and played many more minutes than Juolevi. Juolevi fans will say that because he had to babysit Bouchard but Juolevi was on the second pairing so it's not quite accurate to say he was the #1 Dman on the team Timmonen was the #1 Dman in Liiga. Juolevi played the most in the playoffs because Timmonen was injured. Very impressive for Juolevi to elevate his game to be the guy but he only became the #1 guy because Timmonen got injured. He was the #1 offensive dman in Utica but he also was leading the team and the league for having the worst +/-. I don't think he was their number 1 defender. Pretty sure Sautner would have been considered the #1 defender. With the injuries Juolevi has had and the question marks with his defending it's very reasonable for people to be hesitant about him being an NHL defender. He has some elite abilities that should allow him to be an NHL defender but he has some big hurdles to overcome and is far from a guarantee. OJwill be in our top four (20+minutes) by Christmas. He’s the same level of player as Dahlin from Buffalo, but smarter defensively. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kushman Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 8 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Feels like I gotta keep posting the same thing in OJ threads because the same points come up, but: He was the #1 dman on his junior team, became the #1 dman on his adult Liiga team (at 19 years old), the #1 dman on his AHL team in the second best league in the world (at age 20). But he is a bust because he didn't make the NHL before being 20 years old. Or because the players drafted around him have played games which have no relation to his development. He has ran his team's power play at every level, he has very high hockey IQ and his passing skills are amazing. He makes mistakes on defence, young dmen do that, he'll learn from them. My concerns about OJ have never been about his ability to play but rather his list of injuries (back surgery, 2 knee injuries) all before even playing a single nhl game. If he can stay healthy, I believe he'll be a nice addition to the team, but that's a big IF... I get the feeling he's the next salo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said: I love Juolevi as a prospect but a lot of this is just misinformation. Most who are London Knight fans will say that Mete was the #1 Dman on that team and played many more minutes than Juolevi. Juolevi fans will say that because he had to babysit Bouchard but Juolevi was on the second pairing so it's not quite accurate to say he was the #1 Dman on the team Timmonen was the #1 Dman in Liiga. Juolevi played the most in the playoffs because Timmonen was injured. Very impressive for Juolevi to elevate his game to be the guy but he only became the #1 guy because Timmonen got injured. He was the #1 offensive dman in Utica but he also was leading the team and the league for having the worst +/-. I don't think he was their number 1 defender. Pretty sure Sautner would have been considered the #1 defender. With the injuries Juolevi has had and the question marks with his defending it's very reasonable for people to be hesitant about him being an NHL defender. He has some elite abilities that should allow him to be an NHL defender but he has some big hurdles to overcome and is far from a guarantee. Wouldn't say it is misinformation, just did not delve into the full detail, but to your points. You could use the same argument for Mete being the #1 offensive D while Juolevi got all the defensive minutes, hence him still being the top D man. Regarding the Liiga situation, it was due to injury but the fact that he elevated and played the role of a #1 is impressive. Don't think that's how a #1 D man is determined, that would be the guy that plays all situations, plays the most minutes and has the most talent, and that was Juolevi, not Sautner. Edited March 13, 2019 by MrCanuck94 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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