Will the Canucks be able to deal with California teams?

[-DLC-]

On 2016-07-10 at 10:57 AM, TimberWolf said:

We are not scaring anyone if that's what anyone thinks. No team is penciling the dates they face the Nucks on the calendar like it's the reincarnation of the broad street bullies coming to town. Every team has guys that are tough in the quantities we do. 

 

I do think we'll be a bit harder to bully but those teams can still outscore us so I doubt very much changes. 

This isn't LIttle Red Riding Hood....It's not about scaring others like a big, bad wolf, it's about winning games. 

 

And if they aren't taking us seriously that'll likely play in our favour.

 

Gone are the days of the broad street bullies...we wanted a faster, younger team...remember?  And we're getting there....

[harrytoolips]

On July 9, 2016 at 6:22 PM, Adarsh Sant said:

The past few years, the Canucks have been getting pushed around by the Bay Area teams. They haven't been able to keep up in speed or size or goaltending or scoring or defense. With the additions of Gudbranson and Eriksson, the return of Sutter, and the help of Virtanen's size, do you think the Canucks will be able to keep up this year? Or are we in for another year of 0-3 road trips against the California teams. Thoughts?

 

Remember the 3-0 road trip we had against them?? I think we'll hold our own, we won't win the division, but we have a decent shot at the playoffs I think..

[gameburn2]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 6:32 PM, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Yes, and Tryamkin is another reason why.  They were already much better with them last year actually.  I'm thinking they'll be around .500 with them. 

Those replays of Tryamkin straightening out some of the Ducks is a hint of the future, and that was without Gudbranson or Hutton a year older ... or Juolevi who could burn them on power plays.   Even without Hamhuis the D is looking better than it has in 5 years, maybe 6.   Trade Edler and train up Pedan and this team is no longer weak on the back end.  And... next year's draft is said to be pretty rich in D... I see JB going for another D in the first round, barring a spectacular forward who just calls out to be drafted.

 

JB believes in building out from the Goal and D and then through the Centre: we've seen this in the draft picks: Juolevi, Demko, Tryamkin, Brisebois, McCann, etc.  Virtanen is a bit of an exception, but that was about getting some speed and presence in the lineup, something we haven't had for a long while, with the exception of Hansen.

 

SJ and LA are on the downswing, Doughty is due for an injury and the big guys in SJ -- with the exception of Burns -- are getting older.  I'm more worried about Edmonton tbh. 

[wai_lai416]

19 minutes ago, gameburn2 said:

Those replays of Tryamkin straightening out some of the Ducks is a hint of the future, and that was without Gudbranson or Hutton a year older ... or Juolevi who could burn them on power plays.   Even without Hamhuis the D is looking better than it has in 5 years, maybe 6.   Trade Edler and train up Pedan and this team is no longer weak on the back end.  And... next year's draft is said to be pretty rich in D... I see JB going for another D in the first round, barring a spectacular forward who just calls out to be drafted.

 

JB believes in building out from the Goal and D and then through the Centre: we've seen this in the draft picks: Juolevi, Demko, Tryamkin, Brisebois, McCann, etc.  Virtanen is a bit of an exception, but that was about getting some speed and presence in the lineup, something we haven't had for a long while, with the exception of Hansen.

 

SJ and LA are on the downswing, Doughty is due for an injury and the big guys in SJ -- with the exception of Burns -- are getting older.  I'm more worried about Edmonton tbh. 

SJ really on a downswing? the team ain't lead by joe thornton and patrick marleau.. it's lead by Pavelski Couture Burns and Hertl.. Joe Thornton and Marleau is more of a complimentary player to their new core which the Sedins should have been by now in their career except we don't have a pavelski couture or burns.

 

you joking? 5-6 years ago we had one of the best defense in the league.. Edler Bieska Tanev Ehrhoff Hamhuis Salo and then alberts and rome as 7-8th depth defenseman.. and those are all in their prime.. I don't know what you are smoking to even suggest our current defense without hamhuis is looking better than it has been in 5-6 years.. right now our defense is full of question marks... will hutton continue to progress and can he handle a full 82 game as he showed plenty of fatigue near the end last year.. how will Tryamkin do in a full season with all the travelling and such? will Edler be healthy? How will the defense play without the veteran of a hamhuis to slowly bring tryamkin up to speed etc etc etc.. the defense isn't worse than last year.. but on paper it ain't much better than last year.. all depends on the development on a hutton or tryamkin

[guntrix]

Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, the California teams have had our number because they're simply better teams? We have to chill on the size obsession fam. 

[gameburn2]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

SJ really on a downswing? the team ain't lead by joe thornton and patrick marleau.. it's lead by Pavelski Couture Burns and Hertl.. Joe Thornton and Marleau is more of a complimentary player to their new core which the Sedins should have been by now in their career except we don't have a pavelski couture or burns.

 

you joking? 5-6 years ago we had one of the best defense in the league.. Edler Bieska Tanev Ehrhoff Hamhuis Salo and then alberts and rome as 7-8th depth defenseman.. and those are all in their prime.. I don't know what you are smoking to even suggest our current defense without hamhuis is looking better than it has been in 5-6 years.. right now our defense is full of question marks... will hutton continue to progress and can he handle a full 82 game as he showed plenty of fatigue near the end last year.. how will Tryamkin do in a full season with all the travelling and such? will Edler be healthy? How will the defense play without the veteran of a hamhuis to slowly bring tryamkin up to speed etc etc etc.. the defense isn't worse than last year.. but on paper it ain't much better than last year.. all depends on the development on a hutton or tryamkin

Pavelski, Couture, and Hertl might be younger than Thornton and Marleau, but they aren't as good imo.  Thornton was their Sedin last year: still their key playmaker and puck control guy.   Burns is their only world-class player going forward -- he is fantastic though, I agree. 

 

I took the question of "handling" the California teams more literally -- that is physically.  With the exception of Bieksa -- and at moments Edler -- that good defensive corps we had 5 or 6 years ago was not as physical as this corps will be when it is led by Tryamkin and Gudbranson -- especially if they play on different pairings.

 

Granted, I did reach a bit in rating a young untested D as highly as this, but I see it more like the Boston D that was so critical to controlling our forwards in the SCF: Tryamkin=Chara, Seidenberg=Hutton or even Juolevi, and Gudbranson=Boychuck.  A Bieksa in his prime is missed, I agree, we don't know if Gudbranson or even Hutton can supply the moments of attack/scoring he provided, let alone the character and grit.  Sbisa and Edler I don't count in the top pairings: the former because he hasn't played consistently enough, and the latter because he is becoming redundant on this team -- and he had a pretty bad year last year.  I can't see him being here that much longer.  I'm also assuming that we draft another D this upcoming year who will start in about 2 years -- or another Gudbranson type trade: Benning looks to be fully committed to building from the back-end out, and the job is not done yet.  It may never be done: drafting/developing D is too important to teams now.  Demko and the drafting of Tryamkin and Juolevi is looking like what Benning may have done best so far.  The President's Trophy teams we had were built around the forwards who were capable of a kind of puck control that reduced scoring chances for the other team, while coincidentally putting up pretty big numbers.   Not keeping Erhoff appears in retrospect to have been an error -- PMD are not as easy to find as might have been thought at the time -- but the commitment was really to the core of the team: puck controlling offensive forwards and the goaltenders.  I see Juolevi as the long-awaited replacement for Erhoff.  Whether Gudbranson can do what Bieksa did is uncertain, but there is good potential there.

[ice orca]

9 hours ago, harrytoolips said:

Remember the 3-0 road trip we had against them?? I think we'll hold our own, we won't win the division, but we have a decent shot at the playoffs I think..

That 3-0 road trip was against all 3 teams that had a playoff berth sowed up. It's a bit of a red herring as those teams were playing not to get injured for the playoff run.

[**Pavel4Life**]

.500 Cali trip this year should be doable.

[Ghostsof1915]

Maybe we should just focus on winning games regardless of who we are facing? Dictate the style of play to make the team match the Canucks, not the other way around. 

[Neko]

10 hours ago, gameburn2 said:

Those replays of Tryamkin straightening out some of the Ducks is a hint of the future, and that was without Gudbranson or Hutton a year older ... or Juolevi who could burn them on power plays.   Even without Hamhuis the D is looking better than it has in 5 years, maybe 6.   Trade Edler and train up Pedan and this team is no longer weak on the back end.  And... next year's draft is said to be pretty rich in D... I see JB going for another D in the first round, barring a spectacular forward who just calls out to be drafted.

 

JB believes in building out from the Goal and D and then through the Centre: we've seen this in the draft picks: Juolevi, Demko, Tryamkin, Brisebois, McCann, etc.  Virtanen is a bit of an exception, but that was about getting some speed and presence in the lineup, something we haven't had for a long while, with the exception of Hansen.

 

SJ and LA are on the downswing, Doughty is due for an injury and the big guys in SJ -- with the exception of Burns -- are getting older.  I'm more worried about Edmonton tbh. 

The amount of misinformation in this post is enough that I can make a sandwich out of it.

 

SJ is actually on an upswing, they'll make the finals if they keep doing what they did this year, and Vancouver had one of the best defense in that timeframe.  Without Hammer, we don't know how the defense will be yet, on paper it looks good but we haven't seen it in action yet.

 

Edmonton will continue to be a bottom dweller for another couple years, Larsson won't put a dent in their defensive needs and they gave away one of their best players.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 hours ago, gameburn2 said:

Pavelski, Couture, and Hertl might be younger than Thornton and Marleau, but they aren't as good imo.  Thornton was their Sedin last year: still their key playmaker and puck control guy.   Burns is their only world-class player going forward -- he is fantastic though, I agree. 

Pavelski is an excellent hockey player who was instrumental in getting the Sharks as far as they went. Definitely better than Marleau.

Quote

I took the question of "handling" the California teams more literally -- that is physically.  With the exception of Bieksa -- and at moments Edler -- that good defensive corps we had 5 or 6 years ago was not as physical as this corps will be when it is led by Tryamkin and Gudbranson -- especially if they play on different pairings.

True. This defense is going to end up being a far greater physical force.

Quote

Granted, I did reach a bit in rating a young untested D as highly as this, but I see it more like the Boston D that was so critical to controlling our forwards in the SCF: Tryamkin=Chara, Seidenberg=Hutton or even Juolevi, and Gudbranson=Boychuck.

Boston didn't have a smooth, offensive, puck mover like Juolevi, so that could put the upcoming defense above the Boston model. As well, Tryamkin is displaying greater poise and physicality in his rookie year than Chara did in his.

Quote

  A Bieksa in his prime is missed, I agree, we don't know if Gudbranson or even Hutton can supply the moments of attack/scoring he provided, let alone the character and grit.

Gudbranson will more than replace the grit and character that Juice supplied.

Quote

Sbisa and Edler I don't count in the top pairings: the former because he hasn't played consistently enough, and the latter because he is becoming redundant on this team -- and he had a pretty bad year last year.  I can't see him being here that much longer.

Edler is projected to be on the top pairing with Chris Tanev, so......

Quote

 I'm also assuming that we draft another D this upcoming year who will start in about 2 years -- or another Gudbranson type trade: Benning looks to be fully committed to building from the back-end out, and the job is not done yet.  It may never be done: drafting/developing D is too important to teams now.

It always has been important, but as Canucks fans, we got used to seeing the last GM trade away picks to supplement the roster, until the last couple of years where he managed to snag Hutton and Horvat.

Quote

 Demko and the drafting of Tryamkin and Juolevi is looking like what Benning may have done best so far.

Might want to add Boeser to that list.

Quote

The President's Trophy teams we had were built around the forwards who were capable of a kind of puck control that reduced scoring chances for the other team, while coincidentally putting up pretty big numbers.   Not keeping Erhoff appears in retrospect to have been an error -- PMD are not as easy to find as might have been thought at the time -- but the commitment was really to the core of the team: puck controlling offensive forwards and the goaltenders.  I see Juolevi as the long-awaited replacement for Erhoff.  Whether Gudbranson can do what Bieksa did is uncertain, but there is good potential there.

Erhoff followed the money and signed in Buffalo. It would have been stupid to keep him, as his game has clearly taken a nosedive. He saw a real shot at the Cup with Buffalo......

 

Juolevi has the potential to be twice the player Erhoff ever was. Mark my words. Mark them!

 

And Gudbranson will be a great addition to this team. While Bieksa was a warrior and stood up for the team, Erik is a beast who dwarfs Bieksa. He's also a leader who has wheels and a great point shot, that I think will be given the freedom to do great things here.

[bobbyg43]

Home games will be better for us if coach matches lines an takes advantage of match ups . Face offs have improved to what degree ?

the D has on paper improved 100% in many facets that bodes better.team speed is margilizingly better.but, remains to be seen if we can win more than we lose in California.

[Inge34]

I guess it is all how you define "deal with". The Canucks were better then .500 against them last year and that was with an injury depleted team. If you mean the Canucks will win some games against California, then they already are.

 

If you mean, will they be more physical against some of the shenanigans that go on. Hell yes! 

 

Edler 6'3" 215, Tanev 6'2" 185

Hutton 6'2" 185, Gudbranson 6'5" 215

Sbisa 6'2" 200, Tryamkin 6'7" 230

Larson 6'0" 190 , Pedan 6'5" 200

 

There is more size, meat and grit on the back end then we've had in decades. Com'on Thornton, Perry and Brown, play your $&!# ass bullying tactics now. Can't wait.

 

[Bertuzzi44ever]

On July 13, 2016 at 8:44 PM, debluvscanucks said:

This isn't LIttle Red Riding Hood....It's not about scaring others like a big, bad wolf, it's about winning games. 

 

And if they aren't taking us seriously that'll likely play in our favour.

 

Gone are the days of the broad street bullies...we wanted a faster, younger team...remember?  And we're getting there....

But Gudbranson isn't fast. 

 

My my fear is size on the back end like tryamkin and Gudbranson these guys are going to be good at shutting down some guys but people in our division who are fast like mcdavid Bennett gaudreau Monohan rnh. DOmi vermette Perry could make them look like pylons.

 

 

rememebr hatcher near the end with philly? In that playoff series with Buffalo....When the Sabres had afinigenov and camel and Roy briere they skated circles around those guys cause they were big and physical and that's all they had

[Salacious Crumb]

6 hours ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

But Gudbranson isn't fast. 

 

My my fear is size on the back end like tryamkin and Gudbranson these guys are going to be good at shutting down some guys but people in our division who are fast like mcdavid Bennett gaudreau Monohan rnh. DOmi vermette Perry could make them look like pylons.

 

 

rememebr hatcher near the end with philly? In that playoff series with Buffalo....When the Sabres had afinigenov and camel and Roy briere they skated circles around those guys cause they were big and physical and that's all they had

You make a great point about speed. Perhaps the 'stache levels up his line matching game and this is the year he plays the beef against Lucic, Thorton etc. and speed vs speed.

[-DLC-]

On 2016-07-15 at 2:11 PM, Bertuzzi44ever said:

But Gudbranson isn't fast. 

 

My my fear is size on the back end like tryamkin and Gudbranson these guys are going to be good at shutting down some guys but people in our division who are fast like mcdavid Bennett gaudreau Monohan rnh. DOmi vermette Perry could make them look like pylons.

 

 

rememebr hatcher near the end with philly? In that playoff series with Buffalo....When the Sabres had afinigenov and camel and Roy briere they skated circles around those guys cause they were big and physical and that's all they had

My point being that you don't have to "scare" anyone out there, you just have to beat them.

 

We have mixed some grit and size in and it doesn't have to be a roster full of that...the recipe for success is a combination of things.  I feel like we're getting there...we have skill, speed and some toughness so it's hard not to be positive about the direction we're heading in.

 

Unless, of course,  you just look for the dark spots in life.  Then you've got bigger worries than the Canucks' win/loss stats. 

[captainhorvat]

Its gonna be fun watching the kings and ducks start to regress you could throw the sharks in thr aswell. I think they overachieved last season similar to many teams with new coaches the first season. 

[Jam126]

On 2016-07-15 at 2:11 PM, Bertuzzi44ever said:

But Gudbranson isn't fast. 

 

My my fear is size on the back end like tryamkin and Gudbranson these guys are going to be good at shutting down some guys but people in our division who are fast like mcdavid Bennett gaudreau Monohan rnh. DOmi vermette Perry could make them look like pylons.

 

 

rememebr hatcher near the end with philly? In that playoff series with Buffalo....When the Sabres had afinigenov and camel and Roy briere they skated circles around those guys cause they were big and physical and that's all they had

He isn't fast but he can keep up.

[The Lock]

On 7/10/2016 at 10:57 AM, TimberWolf said:

We are not scaring anyone if that's what anyone thinks. No team is penciling the dates they face the Nucks on the calendar like it's the reincarnation of the broad street bullies coming to town. Every team has guys that are tough in the quantities we do. 

 

I do think we'll be a bit harder to bully but those teams can still outscore us so I doubt very much changes. 

If they want to bully us and draw penalties to give us chances I'm all for that.

 

I don't care about getting their lunch money. I care about winning games. This is hockey, not UFC.

[The Lock]

On 7/15/2016 at 2:11 PM, Bertuzzi44ever said:

But Gudbranson isn't fast. 

 

My my fear is size on the back end like tryamkin and Gudbranson these guys are going to be good at shutting down some guys but people in our division who are fast like mcdavid Bennett gaudreau Monohan rnh. DOmi vermette Perry could make them look like pylons.

 

 

rememebr hatcher near the end with philly? In that playoff series with Buffalo....When the Sabres had afinigenov and camel and Roy briere they skated circles around those guys cause they were big and physical and that's all they had

Hatcher played a different style of game. Keep in mind Hatcher leaned his game before the lockout changes of 2005. Gudbranson's style's more based on today's NHL. There's a big difference there. (Not to mention Dallas won the cup that year and not Buffalo despite Hull's controversial goal)

 

Gudbranson and Tryamkin are also way better skaters than Hatcher ever was. Hatcher was slow like Valabik: another big defender who couldn't even crack the top 4 of a lineup, barely the top 6 even. Gudbranson's already played big minutes for Florida so to call him a 3rd line defender would be just silly. Not saying you have. Just saying that to compare players.