(Discussion) Sbisa or gudbranson

[Harvey Spector]

31 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

 

He can be as big and mean as he wants but I'd still take Stecher any day of the week over him and Tanev is miles better. No one expected Stecher to be this good and I think he's made either Tanev or Gudbranson expendable. I'd rather get an OK return for Gudbranson and keep Tanev rather than trade Tanev.

 

I'd rather keep Gudbranson so we don't have to waste a roster spot on a goon when we play teams like Anaheim, LA or Toronto and guys like Matt Martin are jumping Stecher and we have zero pushback. 

 

Gudbranson is a legit heavyweight and something we've been missing from our D since Bieksa left. Sure Tanev is a better D so that means we can get a top 6 forward for him in a trade. I'm not interested in having a lineup where Sbisa is our heavyweight and he has to fight a guy like Matt Martin or Jordan Nolan. I'd rather Guddy take care of those guys and Sbisa can focus on other things. 

 

Guddy is only 24 so we haven't even seen the best of him. I haven't been particularly happy with his play so far this year but I don't want to write him off just yet. We need to see him fully healthy and playing his bone crunching game for a full year before we can fully evaluate him. 

[Ihatetomatoes]

8 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

I'd rather get a top 3 forward for Tanev and not lose either Sbisa/Edler for nothing. 

 

Top 3 guy, Horvat, Eriksson 

Sedin, Sedin, Hansen/Boeser 

Baer/Granlund/Rodin, Sutter, Boeser/Hansen

Chaput? , Gaunce, Dorsett

 

Edler, Stetcher

Hutton, Gudbranson 

Sbisa, Tryamkin 

 

Looks just fine to me. 

What if you could get a 1st for Gud and keep Tanev?

 

For me I look at where this team will be at in 5-8 years. Tanev is 27 so we have 6-7 more years of his prime years. A top 4 with Tanev and Stecher in it is a lot more Cup worthy than a top 4 with Stecher and Gudbranson. I see the arguement for Trading Tanev but for me I'd rather trade Gudbranson. and then you could keep Sbisa/Edler and loose one of Granlund or Baertchi.

 

The team just wins games with Tanev, the Hutton Gudbranson pairing has just been a tire fire

[Ihatetomatoes]

8 hours ago, Harvey Spector said:

 

I'd rather keep Gudbranson so we don't have to waste a roster spot on a goon when we play teams like Anaheim, LA or Toronto and guys like Matt Martin are jumping Stecher and we have zero pushback. 

 

Gudbranson is a legit heavyweight and something we've been missing from our D since Bieksa left. Sure Tanev is a better D so that means we can get a top 6 forward for him in a trade. I'm not interested in having a lineup where Sbisa is our heavyweight and he has to fight a guy like Matt Martin or Jordan Nolan. I'd rather Guddy take care of those guys and Sbisa can focus on other things. 

 

Guddy is only 24 so we haven't even seen the best of him. I haven't been particularly happy with his play so far this year but I don't want to write him off just yet. We need to see him fully healthy and playing his bone crunching game for a full year before we can fully evaluate him. 

 

Planning a team based on fighting goons is kinda silly to me. Fill a 4th line spot with a guy like that if the team needs it not a top 4 defending role. 

 

I do agree that Gud is a good defender and is young but like I said before Stecher has made one of him or Tanev expendable and Tanev is just miles better and still young as well, he could still potentially be good enough when this team has turned the corner to be worth keeping. Just look at our record with and without Tanev. 

[Shirotashi]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:05 AM, Hockey101 class said:

Pesonally I think Gudbranson is a bust the games to fast for him he's been awful. Sbisa's been great our d right now are looking really good, we dont win the last three games with guddy in the lineup. Plus someone said he turned down 4.5mil from fla what a joke we gotta ditch this clown keep Sbisa and expose BIEGA just makes sense going forward when Juolevi is ready we can trade Hutton or Stretch I personally like the D were playing now.

Do people who post in here actually watch hockey?? Sbisa has been great? What?

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

What if you could get a 1st for Gud and keep Tanev?

 

For me I look at where this team will be at in 5-8 years. Tanev is 27 so we have 6-7 more years of his prime years. A top 4 with Tanev and Stecher in it is a lot more Cup worthy than a top 4 with Stecher and Gudbranson. I see the arguement for Trading Tanev but for me I'd rather trade Gudbranson. and then you could keep Sbisa/Edler and loose one of Granlund or Baertchi.

 

The team just wins games with Tanev, the Hutton Gudbranson pairing has just been a tire fire

 

Rather have a young top 3 forward and Gudbranson than a lotto ticket. 

 

I don't like the abuse Tanev takes or how often he's injured due to it. I don't like how he has an NTC starting this summer and I don't like how he'll be exiting his prime by the time were realistically contending again (if that injury history hasn't become a problem before then).

 

We have the D depth to move him. We need the the forward depth only he'd realistically return. 

 

 

[Hugor Hill]

2 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

 

Planning a team based on fighting goons is kinda silly to me. Fill a 4th line spot with a guy like that if the team needs it not a top 4 defending role. 

 

I do agree that Gud is a good defender and is young but like I said before Stecher has made one of him or Tanev expendable and Tanev is just miles better and still young as well, he could still potentially be good enough when this team has turned the corner to be worth keeping. Just look at our record with and without Tanev. 

Normally I would agree with this, as top 4 Dmen are too important to sit for 5 mins or risk getting hurt from fighting. But this Canucks team needs all the scoring you can get and that's why we have grinders Megna and Chaput who can score once in a blue moon instead of some fighting machine.

 

As for what to do with our D core, I generally agree with:

 

42 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Rather have a young top 3 forward and Gudbranson than a lotto ticket. 

 

I don't like the abuse Tanev takes or how often he's injured due to it. I don't like how he has an NTC starting this summer and I don't like how he'll be exiting his prime by the time were realistically contending again (if that injury history hasn't become a problem before then).

 

We have the D depth to move him. We need the the forward depth only he'd realistically return. 

 

Except I doubt we can score a top 3 forward from trading Tanev. Whatever concerns we have regarding keeping Tanev long term are shared by the other 29 GM's as well. Also, every team will face losing guys in the expansion draft, so whichever scoring forward we can get our of trading Tanev will cost us a protection up front. Good luck getting a high end prospect that's not expansion draft eligible either.

 

[aGENT]

42 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said:

Normally I would agree with this, as top 4 Dmen are too important to sit for 5 mins or risk getting hurt from fighting. But this Canucks team needs all the scoring you can get and that's why we have grinders Megna and Chaput who can score once in a blue moon instead of some fighting machine.

 

As for what to do with our D core, I generally agree with:

 

 

Except I doubt we can score a top 3 forward from trading Tanev. Whatever concerns we have regarding keeping Tanev long term are shared by the other 29 GM's as well. Also, every team will face losing guys in the expansion draft, so whichever scoring forward we can get our of trading Tanev will cost us a protection up front. Good luck getting a high end prospect that's not expansion draft eligible either.

 

 

Tanev + say Granlund or Rodin or Baer  does. And likely with a pick coming back too. 

 

You get back a forward who doesn't need protecting. Like say Domi. 

[Hugor Hill]

32 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Tanev + say Granlund or Rodin or Baer  does. And likely with a pick coming back too. 

 

You get back a forward who doesn't need protecting. Like say Domi. 

Tough call to make for Phoenix. I don't know their depth chart well enough to know if they already have enough guys worth protecting. Let's say they agree to Tanev and Granlund, you are asking them trade away their prized young elite talent (and a pick) as well as exposing two more guys to Vegas. I don't know man. Tough call. I wouldn't do it if I were them.

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, Hugor Hill said:

Tough call to make for Phoenix. I don't know their depth chart well enough to know if they already have enough guys worth protecting. Let's say they agree to Tanev and Granlund, you are asking them trade away their prized young elite talent (and a pick) as well as exposing two more guys to Vegas. I don't know man. Tough call. I wouldn't do it if I were them.

 

They have room to protect them, have a need for a RHD and have an analytic GM who would LOVE Tanev. But they're not the only team with room to protect guys. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

11 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

Do people who post in here actually watch hockey?? Sbisa has been great? What?

Nearly 600 5v5 minutes played this season and Sbisa is in the top-30 NHL defensemen in GF%RelTM, top-60 in points/60, and just slightly outside the top-60 in GF%.

 

And going back since last season, Sbisa has played 1200+ 5v5 minutes and ranks top-60 among NHL defensemen in GF% and top-10 in GF%RelTM (minimum 1000 minutes sample).

 

The samples are large enough at this point to say that the version of Sbisa we've seen since 2015-16 is one who demonstrably aids his team when he's playing.

 

Simply put, the Canucks are winning the game, by a significant margin, when Sbisa is on the ice. 

 

His on-ice goals effect has actually been at a "first pairing" rate for more than 1000 minutes played over two consecutive NHL seasons.

 

Eye test wise, I think he's really cleaned up his mistakes and now plays quite a steady game most nights. But how good he's been isn't necessarily obvious until you start looking at the numbers (which are nothing short of "great" IMO).

[Boudrias]

7 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Nearly 600 5v5 minutes played this season and Sbisa is in the top-30 NHL defensemen in GF%RelTM, top-60 in points/60, and just slightly outside the top-60 in GF%.

 

And going back since last season, Sbisa has played 1200+ 5v5 minutes and ranks top-60 among NHL defensemen in GF% and top-10 in GF%RelTM (minimum 1000 minutes sample).

 

The samples are large enough at this point to say that the version of Sbisa we've seen since 2015-16 is one who demonstrably aids his team when he's playing.

 

Simply put, the Canucks are winning the game, by a significant margin, when Sbisa is on the ice. 

 

His on-ice goals effect has actually been at a "first pairing" rate for more than 1000 minutes played over two consecutive NHL seasons.

 

Eye test wise, I think he's really cleaned up his mistakes and now plays quite a steady game most nights. But how good he's been isn't necessarily obvious until you start looking at the numbers (which are nothing short of "great" IMO).

Always look forward to your pearls Sid! Thanks for your efforts.

I am only smart enough for the 'eye test' and I saw Sbisa's game turn early last season. IMHO he is a 2nd pairing d-man right now. Has he topped out? I think he might have a little more offence in him. A stronger forward group might allow his superior skating to shine.

[PhillipBlunt]

13 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

What if you could get a 1st for Gud and keep Tanev?

 

For me I look at where this team will be at in 5-8 years. Tanev is 27 so we have 6-7 more years of his prime years. A top 4 with Tanev and Stecher in it is a lot more Cup worthy than a top 4 with Stecher and Gudbranson. I see the arguement for Trading Tanev but for me I'd rather trade Gudbranson. and then you could keep Sbisa/Edler and loose one of Granlund or Baertchi.

 

The team just wins games with Tanev, the Hutton Gudbranson pairing has just been a tire fire

Based on how the Canucks were slapped around like a red-headed stepchild in the last Stanley Cup run, I'd prefer to have a player like Gudbranson in a prolonged campaign where physical play becomes the norm.

[JM_]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Rather have a young top 3 forward and Gudbranson than a lotto ticket. 

 

I don't like the abuse Tanev takes or how often he's injured due to it. I don't like how he has an NTC starting this summer and I don't like how he'll be exiting his prime by the time were realistically contending again (if that injury history hasn't become a problem before then).

 

We have the D depth to move him. We need the the forward depth only he'd realistically return. 

 

 

 

So if Tanev is in play and not Guddy or Sbisa.... where does he go? Where's the best return? I just can't see anyone giving up a top C for him, because no one has an excess of those. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

So if Tanev is in play and not Guddy or Sbisa.... where does he go? Where's the best return? I just can't see anyone giving up a top C for him, because no one has an excess of those. 

 

How about a top LW?

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

How about a top LW?

 

I like Landeskog... it sounds like COL is willing to move him but I think Benning wouldn't do that 1 for 1 and would also want a pick. But man would Tanev ever solidify that crap D. 

 

GL would give our top 6 some nifty options and might be the piece that moves the Sedins to the 2nd line next year. GL-Bo-Loui? GL-Bo-Boeser? GL-Bo-Jake? Lots of things to try out. 

[Blömqvist]

If we don't trade Tanev for a forward the likes of Domi or Landeskog or Duchene, wouldn't it be easier to trade them a 2nd Round Pick for "Future Considerations" with that being the reassurance for them to select a forward that Vancouver does not protect?

 

So when all is said and done, Las Vegas selects a forward like Markus Granlund (oh no!) or Anton Rodin or Brendan Gaunce AND has an extra 2nd Round Pick for the draft. 

 

This allows us to keep all our defensemen and gives us extra time to trade one of them (like Tanev).

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

If we don't trade Tanev for a forward the likes of Domi or Landeskog or Duchene, wouldn't it be easier to trade them a 2nd Round Pick for "Future Considerations" with that being the reassurance for them to select a forward that Vancouver does not protect?

 

So when all is said and done, Las Vegas selects a forward like Markus Granlund (oh no!) or Anton Rodin or Brendan Gaunce AND has an extra 2nd Round Pick for the draft. 

 

This allows us to keep all our defensemen and gives us extra time to trade one of them (like Tanev).

Great idea, but would the league allow that kind of stuff?

[Canada Hockey Place]

Not only have Edler and Tanev played well as a top pair. They have shown they can be paired with others to make them better. 

 

I can't see why anyone who wants to see this team/D improve would want to move them now. Especially in a discussion over the expansion draft, Gudbranson and Sbisa. 

 

 

 

 

[hammertime]

Erik is 24. He's a good age to come up with this future core and be a leader. I have no doubt that in 2 or 3 years time he will put it all together and become one of the premier contributors for this club. Honestly I'd much rather have him on this team than play against him. Imagine if he landed in Edmonton right now....... NM I don't want to imagine that. I for one am just pretty darn glad he's a Canuck. D take longer to develop especially big nasty ones. Wheres the be patient with Kassian crowd at???

 

Willy Mitchel 2.0 

 

I mean just look at the reaction from Guddy's team mates in FLA when he was traded. They know better than anyone what he brings and what a big part of their team he was. How is that team doing these days after gutting their analytically challenged D. Maybe Gud brings more than the stats guys think. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Erik is 24. He's a good age to come up with this future core and be a leader. I have no doubt that in 2 or 3 years time he will put it all together and become one of the premier contributors for this club. Honestly I'd much rather have him on this team than play against him. Imagine if he landed in Edmonton right now....... NM I don't want to imagine that. I for one am just pretty darn glad he's a Canuck. D take longer to develop especially big nasty ones. Wheres the be patient with Kassian crowd at???

 

Willy Mitchel 2.0 

 

I mean just look at the reaction from Guddy's team mates in FLA when he was traded. They know better than anyone what he brings and what a big part of their team he was. How is that team doing these days after gutting their analytically challenged D. Maybe Gud brings more than the stats guys think. 

The longer JB waits to trade one of Tanev/Edler/Sbisa the lower the return.  Does JB have a plan other than losing Sbisa to expansion?