The Colt 45s Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Jake at 21/22 will be a much better hockey player. I subscribe to the NFL drafting concept that says the kid has to be three years out of high school, completing his college eligibility, to be drafted. He is going to have a great career, he just needs some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 minute ago, jmfaminoff said: Jake at 21/22 will be a much better hockey player. I subscribe to the NFL drafting concept that says the kid has to be three years out of high school, completing his college eligibility, to be drafted. He is going to have a great career, he just needs some time. Kassian is finally starting to come around but can the Canucks wait that long to finally get a third line guy? Yes, I believe there was way too much emphasis placed on his hitting and size that got him into the first round of the draft and once he tried to make the club. WD concentrated on him being a defense and hitting forward first and scoring forward was not given a priority so I think he basically concentrated on those two area's of his game the last year of junior and in the NHL. He did only have one mediocre year as a scoring forward as well, a man size body vs boys. Unfortunately he is looking to be a top level third liner in the future but with the lack of depth he could be put on the top two lines just because the Nucks have no one else not because he is that much better than others in the NHL, the same as a few other Canuck players, just there because there is a need on this team, not because they would be on any other team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: That's what causes guys like Tyler Johnson to go undrafted. That's also what caused Gillis to get Jensen over Saad and Jenner. If you can't scout, you use some proxy metrics. That's my point, Benning drafted him for the player he is, not the size he is. Thats changing a bit, look at the trend to having at least one smaller more mobile D. I think if you look at Benning's entire draft history, he's got a heck of a mix of player types in there and Jake may yet be a top 6. I forgot about Jensen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frail Granny Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Whether Jake has some fault in his current development or not, I do believe any other team in the league would have gotten more out of him by now. The Canucks have to be one of the worst teams in cultivating top prospects. And if you counter me with Horvat, I'd argue he'd have his 100th point 30 games ago, anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 He just needs to find the right balance between speed, size and endurance. Being bigger means he can hit harder, be tougher to move and more intimidating. His current 215lb isn't huge by NHL standard nowadays, so bulking up wasn't a bad idea, just it has to be done properly with the endurance to move yourself longer on the ice. At the same time, the game is getting quicker, so he needs to keep his speed and even get faster. But lose too much size for speed and your hits won't have as much impact. I do remember how Steve Bernier said he went from 230lbs to like 215lbs to try to get faster to be able to actually hit guys.... except while he did get slightly faster, his hits weren't making other players scared. As for Virtanen, he just needs to physically mature. Guys don't really hit their physical peak until age 24-27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lancaster said: He just needs to find the right balance between speed, size and endurance. Being bigger means he can hit harder, be tougher to move and more intimidating. His current 215lb isn't huge by NHL standard nowadays, so bulking up wasn't a bad idea, just it has to be done properly with the endurance to move yourself longer on the ice. At the same time, the game is getting quicker, so he needs to keep his speed and even get faster. But lose too much size for speed and your hits won't have as much impact. I do remember how Steve Bernier said he went from 230lbs to like 215lbs to try to get faster to be able to actually hit guys.... except while he did get slightly faster, his hits weren't making other players scared. As for Virtanen, he just needs to physically mature. Guys don't really hit their physical peak until age 24-27. Had I had Jake's frame at 17, I'd have made a living in hockey. He has the body for the league, all that's missing is smarts and desire. Physical maturation has zero to do with his inability to play in the NHL and everything to do with him being gifted a roster position, in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Most junior players would love to be making a living in the AHL arguably ( no apologies to the KHL) the second best hockey league in the world. Any sense of entitlement Virtanen likely had after his tryout in the NHL and high pick status is likely disappearing one shift at a time as he plays with plugs or career minor leaguers. He has to earn his way back. It's one hundred percent on him given the chances he already got. Hope he is learning and is working hard every day to make his way back and when he does get his shot he makes the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 29 minutes ago, Frail Granny said: Whether Jake has some fault in his current development or not, I do believe any other team in the league would have gotten more out of him by now. The Canucks have to be one of the worst teams in cultivating top prospects. And if you counter me with Horvat, I'd argue he'd have his 100th point 30 games ago, anywhere else. Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Sbisa, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Jake played okay last season in a traditional positioning system where one guy stays high and two go after the puck, switching up, reading and reacting as the plays develop. On the back-check the winger takes a d-man on the way back. Now they play with more structure like a soccer system where they take a zone on d and track players through then pickup the next guy they have to check. When they're on, they can limit offensive teams' chances and stay competitive within the game. Jake wasn't picking up the system quickly enough and his attention to the details was not where it needed to be. Baertschi and Horvat were having similar issues, but settled down after Burrows started playing with them. Jake will be a top six guy for us eventually. (unless traded of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swizzey Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 When you get dropped from the NHL to the AHL, you lose the hot girlfriend. When you lose the hot girlfriend, your mind goes crazy. Your mind goes crazy because girls are crazy. Now you aren't left with anything but crazy. Not even the crazy girl. This the crazy cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 hours ago, CaNuCkSLoUiE23 said: Exactly. When Horvat played his first season in the NHL, he played with plugs like Kenins and Dorsett. Bo carried that line, and eventually started getting more minutes. Virtanen can't be gifted minutes because of his draft position. He needs to bust his a** game in and game out and earn a spot. You need to familiarise yourself with the meaning of "plug" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Sbisa, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin How many combined games in the minors (cultivating)? A handful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Virtanen needs to learn to lead and drive the play not be a passenger on a skill line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frail Granny Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 51 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Sbisa, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin Don't get me started on that list. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Frail Granny said: Don't get me started on that list. Try again. All those players have developed nicely. If you think they're bad at developing why don't you try again. If you want top prospects, Horvat would be the only one. The other top prospects would be Virtanen, Boeser and Juolevi. None of whom are in the NHL. Horvat has developed well because he has great character. The plan for his development went sideways due to injury. But don't tell me there wasn't a good plan. Virtanen, they messed up his rookie year and his off season training imo. They've got him on track now. Players in general are being developed the right way. They are placed in positions to succeed (that's the plan) and they have to earn their ice time and opportunities. We have a 4th line full of fringe NHLers which is the minimum standard for a prospect to meet before being given a shot. This is as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyBoy44 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 4 hours ago, riffraff said: Every time I press the square root button I come up with Justin Bieber. I'm going to have to respectfully ask you to stop doing that. The neighborhood dogs haven't stopped howling in 4 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Jake should hang out with Bo in the off season, Horvat's training regime probably goes unmatched by any Canuck on the roster. The off season discipline can better secure Jake's NHL ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frail Granny Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: All those players have developed nicely. If you think they're bad at developing why don't you try again. If you want top prospects, Horvat would be the only one. The other top prospects would be Virtanen, Boeser and Juolevi. None of whom are in the NHL. Horvat has developed well because he has great character. The plan for his development went sideways due to injury. But don't tell me there wasn't a good plan. Virtanen, they messed up his rookie year and his off season training imo. They've got him on track now. Players in general are being developed the right way. They are placed in positions to succeed (that's the plan) and they have to earn their ice time and opportunities. We have a 4th line full of fringe NHLers which is the minimum standard for a prospect to meet before being given a shot. This is as it should be. Baertschi and Granlund: Developed by Calgary, and have only shown flashes of promise due to being gifted roster spots, because of one way contracts. Sbisa: Not a prospect at this point, and was developed by Philly and Anaheim. He's arguably regressed since joining the Canucks. Tryamkin: Would be back in Russia, if not for injuries and his one way contract. Willie D was asked this question, and didn't deny it. Stecher: College FA who was already playing at high level day 1. The Canucks had nothing to do with his development. Hutton: Not a top prospect, and has been mediocre at best this year. Horvat: Not being put out in the last minute against Boston says it all really. He doesn't need a muzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 minute ago, 6string said: Jake should hang out with Bo in the off season, Horvat's training regime probably goes unmatched by any Canuck on the roster. The off season discipline can better secure Jake's NHL ambitions. That would be great. Jake needs to not hang out with the guys he has been chumming with the last three summers, that's for sure. He needs a dietician too, and a personal trainer. He's got to come n to camp next year lean (under 210) and super fit (able to play 1minute shifts) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frail Granny Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: That would be great. Jake needs to not hang out with the guys he has been chumming with the last three summers, that's for sure. He needs a dietician too, and a personal trainer. He's got to come n to camp next year lean (under 210) and super fit (able to play 1minute shifts) He trained rigorously with the Canucks training staff this last off season. If he's a pudgy blob, then they should take a lot of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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