UticaHockey Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said: I think there needs to be a change in Utica, things went from excitement to nightmare real quick. Based on what exactly? I know the click-bait Vancouver media has been promoting the narrative that nobody develops in Utica and there are plenty of Canucks fans that buy into this train of thought but do you have any specific reasons for your statement? I think there is a strong chance that Cull and his staff will be replaced and I don't have a strong opinion either way if he stays or if he goes but I do think he has been unfairly blamed for the lack of development of certain prospects in Utica. Since this is the Kole Lind thread let me start out by pointing out that he has been in and out of the line-up this season with multiple injuries and will miss the games this weekend with another injury. But one common theme with the prospects in Utica this season that seem to generate the most "clicks" (Dahlen, Gadjovich, Palmu and Lind) is they are all average to below average skaters and that weakness has been exposed playing in the AHL. All four of these prospects are going to be long term projects and all will need to improve their skating and possibly re-invent their games before getting to the next level if they get there at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, UticaHockey said: Based on what exactly? I know the click-bait Vancouver media has been promoting the narrative that nobody develops in Utica and there are plenty of Canucks fans that buy into this train of thought but do you have any specific reasons for your statement? I think there is a strong chance that Cull and his staff will be replaced and I don't have a strong opinion either way if he stays or if he goes but I do think he has been unfairly blamed for the lack of development of certain prospects in Utica. Since this is the Kole Lind thread let me start out by pointing out that he has been in and out of the line-up this season with multiple injuries and will miss the games this weekend with another injury. But one common theme with the prospects in Utica this season that seem to generate the most "clicks" (Dahlen, Gadjovich, Palmu and Lind) is they are all average to below average skaters and that weakness has been exposed playing in the AHL. All four of these prospects are going to be long term projects and all will need to improve their skating and possibly re-invent their games before getting to the next level if they get there at all. I agree its not all on the coaches, injuries played a big part, but I viewed this team as a contender at the beginning of the year and to miss the playoffs and have a bad development year for most of the canucks prospects who underperformed in Utica looks pretty bad. Again injuries was a big part, but Demko, Juolevi , Dahlen, Lind, and Palmu its hard to say any of these guys had a great year of development in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: I agree its not all on the coaches, injuries played a big part, but I viewed this team as a contender at the beginning of the year and to miss the playoffs and have a bad development year for most of the canucks prospects who underperformed in Utica looks pretty bad. Again injuries was a big part, but Demko, Juolevi , Dahlen, Lind, and Palmu its hard to say any of these guys had a great year of development in Utica. If you viewed this team as a contender at the beginning of the year you had some extremely optimistic expectations. lol Most people I talked with expected us to be at the bottom of the league, including me. Even next year, I'd be surprised if we make the playoffs. I appreciate the optimism but that's.... kind of unrealistic in my opinion and you basically set yourself up for disappointment through impatience perhaps? Edited April 4, 2019 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said: I agree its not all on the coaches, injuries played a big part, but I viewed this team as a contender at the beginning of the year and to miss the playoffs and have a bad development year for most of the canucks prospects who underperformed in Utica looks pretty bad. Again injuries was a big part, but Demko, Juolevi , Dahlen, Lind, and Palmu its hard to say any of these guys had a great year of development in Utica. I really didn't think that all the rookies in Utica were going to light it up. First season in pro is a big jump and more challenging than people realize. KL, JG and the others that are there will be fine after another 1 or 2 years in the "A" and you will see more improvement. Palmu was a long shot at best as a 6th rounder. Not everyone is going to step in right away like Pete, Bo & Brock. Even AG would have benefited from a complete season in Utica and he was a Holby Baker Award Winner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, The Lock said: If you viewed this team as a contender at the beginning of the year you had some extremely optimistic expectations. lol Most people I talked with expected us to be at the bottom of the league, including me. Even next year, I'd be surprised if we make the playoffs. I appreciate the optimism but that's.... kind of unrealistic in my opinion and you basically set yourself up for disappointment through impatience perhaps? He's talking about the Comets.. were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Western Red said: He's talking about the Comets.. were you? Ah I thought he was talking about the Canucks. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, dpn1 said: I really didn't think that all the rookies in Utica were going to light it up. First season in pro is a big jump and more challenging than people realize. KL, JG and the others that are there will be fine after another 1 or 2 years in the "A" and you will see more improvement. Palmu was a long shot at best as a 6th rounder. Not everyone is going to step in right away like Pete, Bo & Brock. Even AG would have benefited from a complete season in Utica and he was a Holby Baker Award Winner. If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. While it's not unheard of, it's quite uncommon for an organization to send a top (and I mean TOP) prospect to the ECHL. Fringe guys go between AHL/ECHL often but your blue-chip guys aren't doing that frequently if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaHockey Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. I have been saying for some time that the Canucks should use the ECHL more often for some of the prospects that are having a tough time adjusting from juniors to the AHL. Tampa Bay and Toronto both utilize their ECHL affiliates for prospect development. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said: If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. Go look at how long Travis Green's Career in the AHL (Just as an example). He was a very offensive player coming out of the WHL and spent the better part of 3 years in the AHL. Give these guys a chance to develop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, dpn1 said: Go look at how long Travis Green's Career in the AHL (Just as an example). He was a very offensive player coming out of the WHL and spent the better part of 3 years in the AHL. Give these guys a chance to develop. He has similar stats to Lind in junior, but spent an extra year there. He put up +50 points in boths full seasons in the AHL though. Kole's gonna have to work hard this offseason to get there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) On 4/1/2019 at 2:11 PM, canuckpuckluck15 said: Yep he is a good one. I took a look at his stats throughout his playing career. There is no way you can put up points at every level and then just fall off a cliff. I have a feeling he will work it out over the off season, come back with a mans physique and really show everyone next year. He definitely has the tools, he just needs to figure out how to use them at this level. It will be exciting once he does, some more firepower for the Canucks. I tell you then next 5 years are going to be fun to watch, these kids are going to light it up and make hockey fun again. Well, I sure hope he does! First year at every level, is an eye opener. Then you either adjust in your second year, stall, or fall off. It is a personal choice, based on drive, and focus. The gifted ones, don't have to go through this phase, but there is a long line of players, who have taken the long route to the NHL. I always use the argument with the younger prospects, that if they don't show well their first year, and you are concerned, look at their entry into their last division they played. In the case of Lind, look at his progression, in the WHL. My question was there growth in every year, when compared to the previous year. But not all make it, but it does underline the need for patience, and not react negatively to fast...…... In some cases, where there has been an injury, it might even take part of 2 years to see that growth...….so just looking at a 1 year snap shot, is probably not the way to go. IMO...…... I am very interested, as you have suggested, to see how Lind comes back...….does he put in the work to make himself better, and does he have the internal makings to make those improvements, and has the hockey gods given him enough talent to continue to improve...…..all questions he should be answering this coming season...….. I will also, add, that it is important to have the correct team-mates to help him improve, as well as the correct coaching...……(There is only so much you can do by yourself) IMO, there is a lot that goes into a players improvement, year to year...…. Edited April 5, 2019 by janisahockeynut 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said: If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. It will certainly shake his confidence, but we will find out what he is made of, that is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 On 4/4/2019 at 4:06 PM, UticaHockey said: I have been saying for some time that the Canucks should use the ECHL more often for some of the prospects that are having a tough time adjusting from juniors to the AHL. Tampa Bay and Toronto both utilize their ECHL affiliates for prospect development. I like the idea to the point of wanting NHL teams to buy ECHL franchises. I suggested this a couple of seasons ago but no one seemed to like the idea. I have never seen a ECHL game or know what their budgets are so I haven't much to base this on. It just seems to me that all of hockey would benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger-Hearted Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Lind with just his 4th goal in the Comets' 8-1 thrashing of WBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 On 4/4/2019 at 2:43 PM, Bure_Pavel said: If they are struggling a lot of other team with send them to ECHL for a stint to gain confidence then bring them back up. Its like we dont even have a ECHL team. To go from like 5th in WHL scoring to not even 0.30 points per game, that's rough and has to be discouraging. Well, it's a big jump from Jr to one of the best pro leagues in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 Just watching the Utica game and Kole Lind just score a beautiful Goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BlastPast Posted April 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 points in his first 18 games; 14 in his last 32. Anybody writing this guy off is way too premature. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, BlastPast said: 2 points in his first 18 games; 14 in his last 32. Anybody writing this guy off is way too premature. Great. Maybe he doesn't need the ECHL after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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