Jim Benning, Daniel Sedin, Don Cherry, Travis Green on Sportsnet 650 (updated)

[Stelar]

Lol, just realized that no one talks about Cassell's when discussing the future.  Man his stock has fallen.  

[Gaudette Celly]

5 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

i think that if the yougsters play well in preseason virt, goldo, boeser, rodin  benning will waive dorsett and trade sutter

Not even a remote chance.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

i think that if the yougsters play well in preseason virt, goldo, boeser, rodin  benning will waive dorsett and trade sutter

 

sedin sedin vanek

baertchi bo rodin

eriksson gagner granlund

white burmi virtanen

gaunce/goldobin looks like a more up tempo offensive with a crash fast bang 4th line 

 

 

I like what Sutter brings to the team, but there are also a number of teams that need a solid 3C so you could be correct. That whole Nugent-Hopkins for Sutter thing might start to pick up steam again in camp. If something like that happened they may have to put 925k of Dorsetts salary in the AHL for cap space, but they could also probably trade him if they retained that amount as well. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

i think that if the yougsters play well in preseason virt, goldo, boeser, rodin  benning will waive dorsett and trade sutter

 

sedin sedin vanek

baertchi bo rodin

eriksson gagner granlund

white burmi virtanen

gaunce/goldobin looks like a more up tempo offensive with a crash fast bang 4th line 

 

 

I could see Dorset on LTIR, but I don't see trading Sutter.  

[stawns]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He played 71 games in the NHL last year (Stecher).   My guess (and I don't know, either do you) is that they were worried he was not "quite" ready but once they saw he was through a week or two in AHL, and they had an opening, he was in.   They had a bunch of other options over him but he earned that spot.   

 

Yes, I do believe that if "Goldy" clearly outplays  Rodin he will move up the pecking order in front of him - now that doesn't mean BOTH don't end  up in AHL coz, say, Virtanen and Boeser outplay them both.

 

 

2 spots for young guys also doesn't mean 2 fwds.  I would bet McEneny is the leading candidate for one of those spots.

[smithers joe]

for those who are close, i think green and the coaches, will tell these players, what they need to work on. it is then the players responsibilities to work on those things. not what cdc thinks but what they see.  

[-Vintage Canuck-]

14 minutes ago, Stelar said:

Lol, just realized that no one talks about Cassell's when discussing the future.  Man his stock has fallen.  

I think he has mostly focused on his defensive game rather than improving offensively. Now that the Canucks have a logjam up front and the chance the Comets could see Goldobin, Virtanen, Chaput, Megna, Molino, and maybe even one of Boeser, Boucher or Rodin in the lineup, it will be tough for him to move up the lineup.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

It's nice for an organization to talk,  especially right before camp opens, that ALL spots have to be earned but I think even you Rob realize that's just really 'talk' to a certain degree since we all know that there are really only 2 spots open on the team  (the Benning quote in the op confirmed this).  In all reality,  no matter how bad certain guy's camps go,  they're on the opening roster no matter what.   The twins,  Tanev,  Edler, BoHo, Loui, Hutton, Quads,  Marky,  ect. ....will ALL be on the opening night roster barring injury regardless of how bad their camp goes (and for the record I hope every one of them has a stellar camp).

 

So let's be real, Green can say every guy has to 'earn' a spot,  and I fully understand that's exactly what he's supposed to say publicly,  but in reality when your own GM is openly stating there's room for 2 guys,  then we know not everyone is truly having to 'earn' a spot in the truest sense of the term.

You bet.  If the players are waiveable and have a contract in place, it's usually because they have already done enough to " earn " a spot.  With Vanek signed and Horvat all but done there really isn't more than two spots available for the guys that can be sent back and forth. 

 

Someone else mentioned Green might want to start with the intended team and work with them until systems are in place which makes sense, especially given the amount of flux since the Burrows and Hansen trades.  A lot of new bodies in and out.  After a month or so someone might already be injured, and or it could be a better time to swap some players and introduce the young guys.

 

Also if someone is killing it in the A and had a great pre-season they can be called up for a try out later....

[stawns]

18 minutes ago, Stelar said:

Lol, just realized that no one talks about Cassell's when discussing the future.  Man his stock has fallen.  

Once he was finally healthy, he actually had a solid, though unspectacular, season last year.  I would say he was one of 3-4 players that Green trusted in crucial situations, and when you actually watch him play, it's encouraging.  It's still a bit of a long shot for him to forge an NHL career, but he's certainly got the hockey iq to get there.

[ilduce39]

40 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

Exactly what happened when Hutton made the team and they had to decide on Corrado.  They couldn't find a taker in trade so they waived him, to the chagrin of spittin' mad Sekeres and a good-sized #muhassetmanagement contingent in Canuckville.

That's a good point - JB has shown the ability to risk assets on waivers with Hutton but also hedge his bets and send Stetch down to give Larsen an extended look.  

 

Surprisingly, he's a human being who doesn't follow a rigid set of arbitrary rules devoid of nuance for individual situations.  Much to the consternation of a vocal segment of the fan base.

 

I'm nit picking but when he says "make room" is he clarifying that with "out of camp?"  Whether he's waiting for an injury or not, 10-15 games in the AHL isn't going to ruin anyone.

[ilduce39]

Loved that comment from Daniel - those guys know this market too well - letting that comment slip and giving Green a leg up with the fan base.  

 

That's the accountability you want from your leaders.

[RWMc1]

9 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

That's a good point - JB has shown the ability to risk assets on waivers with Hutton but also hedge his bets and send Stetch down to give Larsen an extended look.  

 

Surprisingly, he's a human being who doesn't follow a rigid set of arbitrary rules devoid of nuance for individual situations.  Much to the consternation of a vocal segment of the fan base.

 

I'm nit picking but when he says "make room" is he clarifying that with "out of camp?"  Whether he's waiting for an injury or not, 10-15 games in the AHL isn't going to ruin anyone.

People also conveniently forget that an out of shape Tryamkin was taking up a roster spot until he was fit enough to play.

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, GrandpaCanuck said:

Making room for young players doesnt mean you waive a vet out of camp. Its not like you cant send a young player to the AHL for a week or two while you work out a trade or decide what veteran to waive. Just because a young player earns a spot on the big club doesnt mean he will be on the starting lineup. Waiting for an injury isnt a cop-out... Its a process, but the sky is not falling if some waiver exempt kids start in Utica even though they had stellar camps. We had over 350 man games lost to injury last year! We dont know what is said behind closed doors, and its not hard to tell Boeser or Virtanen or Dahlen to spent a week or two in Utica while they shuffle players out to make space for the spot they earned. Everyone knows we are going to have injuries. Knowing your likely the first call up is a byproduct of good asset management. Dont waive players unless you have to.

Good post..but wasn't it 400+ manly games lost from dastardly bludgeons?

 

Of course we still 'manned-up' with a mannish manner.

[ilduce39]

6 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

People also conveniently forget that an out of shape Tryamkin was taking up a roster spot until he was fit enough to play.

Oh yeah.  It's a whole lot of hindsight regarding Stetch and Tryamkin - I'm fine with the way the season played out. (Not a lot of sympathy for Tryamkin's deployment or development-related reasons for bolting.)

 

Deserving players always find a way into the lineup.

[Crabcakes]

5 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

That's a good point - JB has shown the ability to risk assets on waivers with Hutton but also hedge his bets and send Stetch down to give Larsen an extended look.  

 

Surprisingly, he's a human being who doesn't follow a rigid set of arbitrary rules devoid of nuance for individual situations.  Much to the consternation of a vocal segment of the fan base.

 

I'm nit picking but when he says "make room" is he clarifying that with "out of camp?"  Whether he's waiting for an injury or not, 10-15 games in the AHL isn't going to ruin anyone.

I'm afraid "nuance" just doesn't register with the vast majority of the sporting media.  It's just not something that the sporting media can sell.  It's got to be black and white; either this way or that way.

 

Changes happen much more slowly than we all like and decisions always depend on a whole series of circumstances.   Making room based on camp performance could take some time.

 

I think that in the case of Stecher, his play was unexpected.  Benning had poached Larsen out of the KHL and based on the things he was doing there deserved a look in real games.  Stecher got his break due to injury and played even better with the big club.   Having seen both play in meaningful games it was clear who was going to play and who was going to watch from the press box.  It's a pretty conservative and careful way to make decisions but the right one was made in the end.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I REALLY like what TG said to the twins..One of my heroes(Van the Man Morrison) sang it out, clear as day:

 

"Green is the colour of Spring!"

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, GrandpaCanuck said:

Making room for young players doesnt mean you waive a vet out of camp. Its not like you cant send a young player to the AHL for a week or two while you work out a trade or decide what veteran to waive. Just because a young player earns a spot on the big club doesnt mean he will be on the starting lineup. Waiting for an injury isnt a cop-out... Its a process, but the sky is not falling if some waiver exempt kids start in Utica even though they had stellar camps. We had over 350 man games lost to injury last year! We dont know what is said behind closed doors, and its not hard to tell Boeser or Virtanen or Dahlen to spent a week or two in Utica while they shuffle players out to make space for the spot they earned. Everyone knows we are going to have injuries. Knowing your likely the first call up is a byproduct of good asset management. Dont waive players unless you have to.

462 to be exact.  Enough to play 8.5 kids the entire season.  No wonder they went ape @$&- and signed all those guys...

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

53 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but he did though, there were other guys that could have been called up and Stetcher earned the first call up spot, and then got a chance to stay. Sure its not right out of camp but its also not zero chance like Subban who wasn't even close to ready. 

 

But I get your point, I was a bit mystified at the Vanek deal since we had already went out and got Gagner for the PP and Vanek isn't a defensive star so why sign him if you want to see more youth? But the flip side is the 2 kids that do make the line-up will have a more competitive team to learn on so thats preferable to a bunch of kids learning how to lose every night. 

Kid(right outa college) got 70 games..yet folks quibble on, & get busy splitting hairs. Too many of us 'cooks' spoilin' the Ramen broth?

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

I'm afraid "nuance" just doesn't register with the vast majority of the sporting media.  It's just not something that the sporting media can sell.  It's got to be black and white; either this way or that way.

 

Changes happen much more slowly than we all like and decisions always depend on a whole series of circumstances.   Making room based on camp performance could take some time.

 

I think that in the case of Stecher, his play was unexpected.  Benning had poached Larsen out of the KHL and based on the things he was doing there deserved a look in real games.  Stecher got his break due to injury and played even better with the big club.   Having seen both play in meaningful games it was clear who was going to play and who was going to watch from the press box.  It's a pretty conservative and careful way to make decisions but the right one was made in the end.

Completely agree - JB made space for McCann out of camp and it was a mistake to keep him up.  

 

He lost Corrado making space for Hutton which was a wash - losing depth hurt but Ben was deserving.  

 

He sent down Stetch to give Larsen a look for the reasons you state (also have to keep in mind FA's could remember if you're getting waived out of camp - not a good look.) That sorted itself out in the end.

 

You can't just take a blanket statement like "we'll make room" and expect it to apply immediately if Juolevi outscores Edler in pre season.  It needs to get weighed against depth, waiver eligibility, past pro performance, etc.  

 

If Vanek drops a log in pre-season he'll probably still have a spot on opening night.  If he stinks up the first 10-15 games though and Goldobin is ripping up the AHL I fully expect a switch to be made.  That's still making room - it's just taking a bigger sample size.

[4thLineGrinder]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I agree with all you say.  I just believe "making space" is different from waiting for injuries.   I want to see JB actually make space for young guys who earn it.

 

sooo now that GB has gone out and got us some real depth that can help us out in a call up situation the only way you will be happy is if we loose some of said depth on the waver wire, do i have your logic right?