IBatch Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, aGENT said: The first is HIGHLY unlikely to happen. Far more likely those guys are moved for some combination of picks and/or prospects. AKA = not better short term (which I'd be fine with FWIW). There's still people here who hate the Bonino trade (particularly after he went on to win a cup as clearly the key cog in the Pens win ). He was also our 2C at the time. Are you saying a 2C isn't a 'significant' player? Burrows is a Canuck legend, past his prime or not. And getting Dahlen for him was outright thievery particularly given he was past his prime. You'd think you'd commend Benning on that rather than condemning him... At the time OTT had a top three pool and Dahlen was ranked fifth best in their system but no way they'd do that deal again if they knew he'd flourish the way he did (Chabot and a murderers row of centers). I live near OTT and the media here is as brutal as any other Canadian market and the Burrows trade is often brought up when they want to add a dagger to the cauldron of crap their franchise seems to be going through...recently Anderson said he's too old for drama effectively giving management notice to shop him if the deals right...maybe we could offer them Boucher, and then flip him har har. Pretty much wherever I read a team report from a media source (recently fantasy mags) Benning is given props for this deal. He could end up a fixture in our top six for the next decade or so, much like Burrows was with the last core, that's excellent asset management. As far as the Bonino trade goes, it was a good trade both ways...anyone would look good as third line center behind Crosby and Malkin. Sutter is still on our team and just might be the next and last guy traded for something else this team needs in the future OR is kept for his veteran leadership and defensive play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 14 hours ago, Rush17 said: Lol. Do you guys remember when Brendan Gaunce was our projected future first line center lol. Man times were bleak back then. I don't recall that. I remember him being considered a potential middle six or prototypical 3C. Gaunce scarcely scored more than a ppg - even at the OHL level. But he did mirror and translate his progress/development/production at the AHL level - which was promising. Realistically though he was a 26th overall pick in an era the team perenially drafted late. He was projected for character, being a two way player, hard worker....I don't recall him projected as a 1C by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: Some of Benning's trades and/or signings have not been great. But one person cannot continually be successful in every single transaction they make. The great thing about Benning is how he has been able to make the Canuck's prospect pool one of the best in the NHL. And he has done that with an average or below average number of draft picks each year. His drafting has been top notch. If the team is able to begin competing soon (I do believe that will be next year) and Benning continues to be able to draft quality, then that is how a team remains competitive for years. If our drafting would have been even half this good in previous years, we could have kept inserting a very good prospect now and again on ELCs to keep the cap down while our great players continued to win. I am not trying to get into a debate about specific GMs in any way. I am concentrating on drafting with this post. I guess what I am saying is, I think the rebuild goes for one more year but hope the great drafting continues long term. It's true(your 3rd para)..but had we drafted better in the 2006~2012 period, it's hard to say how things would be now. Our window would have lasted longer. Then our fall-off wouldn't have been so dramatic. We likely wouldn't have wound up with so many of the brilliant prospects that we currently boast. At the end of the day, I'd contend our plummet(starting Torts yr) was nicely timed & executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 8 hours ago, IBatch said: That might be premature. I hope so though. Me too, me too. We have to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 hours ago, EdgarM said: Vegas needed no "Elite" player(s) to make it the finals. "Big Gamers" those players that will "show up" in the playoffs are what we need. There are plenty of teams with good key players but its what comprises your 23 man roster is what really matters. You failed to include other players that made those teams great and failed to say why the Leafs have not made it farther in the playoffs. Players such as Malholtra and Dorsett may be the glue that holds everything together and we don't need to "tank" to acquire such players either. I didn’t fail to include anything. You failed to see the point. I was being glib and your reaction is beyond the jibe considering I wasn’t quoting you to begin with. Every team has to start somewhere and this group of prospects and young roster players has a lot of promise. I cannot recall a previous young batch of players with as much upside and I have been an avid fan since the 82 cup team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Silky mitts said: I hate this Vegas argument.. for starters their season is most likely the exception not the norm. Plus you can say fleury definitely played elite , and so did karlsson. And they got spanked by the caps and their elite players. No answer for ovechkin, kuznetsoz, backstrom etc. I’m sorry but elite players definitely correlate to success. Regardless if it is the "norm" or not, they made it to the finals. So....players do not need to BE "Elite" they just need to "PLAY ELITE" now? OK now I have heard them all. Oh I guess they then decided NOT to play "Elite" against Washington yet they did in all the other series? Huh!? AND.....I guess L.A., San Jose and Winnipeg do not have "Elite" players. Yeah you make sense alright. Its so clear to me now. And I would say that a team in their inaugural season who makes it to the Stanley Cup Finals, constitutes a "SUCCESS". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, appleboy said: If players like Tanev , Sutter , Edler or other vets are moved why would anyone want anything but draft picks. Right now our future is bright because of the way the club has drafted. Give Benning as many draft picks as possible. Let things develop slowly. Agreed...mostly. If Tanev, Sutter, or Edler were traded I am sure Benning would consider a high end prospect that is 20 or 21 years old as that fits with the core...such as Dahlen, in addition to draft picks. Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating trading any of those players right now but if any of them were, another high end prospect already in their D+1 or 2 years would be very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 hours ago, appleboy said: If players like Tanev , Sutter , Edler or other vets are moved why would anyone want anything but draft picks. Right now our future is bright because of the way the club has drafted. Give Benning as many draft picks as possible. Let things develop slowly. The reason you may not want picks is because you look at those deals in context. First, Edler - you may accept picks at this stage, particularly with the depth of LHD emerging in the system. However, where Sutter or Tanev are concerned, picks do not cut it. The picks you'd be talking about are too low percentage - unless you believe bottomfeediers and also-ran teams will be in the market to add these players. Doubtful that's the case. Teams looking to acquire these types of players will be playoff teams. Those teams pick in the 17-31 range - picks that come with percentages AT BEST in the range of 25-30% chances of becoming NHL regulars, let alone of the quality of players these two are. The argument that Benning is good at drafting has nothing to do with what you accept for roster players values. Multiples of later, low percentage picks do not make risk sense in deals for players like this - you need a more proven NHL ready or near ready asset as a principle imo - and additionally, this team does not need volumes of draft picks - they've achieved their 'rething' without conforming that approach - they don't need to 'stockpile' the picks at this stage. What they need to do is retain their picks and stay on course - and if they're dealing players like Tanev or Sutter - trade forward for younger but relatively proven assets that make sense. The reality is that both of them are outstanding fits at this stage, so any return is going to have to represent both irresistable value and in a form that also fits the team's needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Regardless if it is the "norm" or not, they made it to the finals. So....players do not need to BE "Elite" they just need to "PLAY ELITE" now? OK now I have heard them all. Oh I guess they then decided NOT to play "Elite" against Washington yet they did in all the other series? Huh!? AND.....I guess L.A., San Jose and Winnipeg do not have "Elite" players. Yeah you make sense alright. Its so clear to me now. And I would say that a team in their inaugural season who makes it to the Stanley Cup Finals, constitutes a "SUCCESS". And who won the cup? Washington’s elite talent, all the past cup winners have elite talent. Isn’t that the goal ? To a win a cup eh bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Silky mitts said: And who won the cup? Washington’s elite talent, all the past cup winners have elite talent. Isn’t that the goal ? To a win a cup eh bud. And where do teams mostly get their elite talent? Yes, at or near the top of the drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Silky mitts said: And who won the cup? Washington’s elite talent, all the past cup winners have elite talent. Isn’t that the goal ? To a win a cup eh bud. OK so all "elite" teams with talent or with players that play "elite" win cups? LA won a cup and proceeded to miss the playoffs the next year. What? All past teams who won a cup have a goalie and 22 other players on the team so how many exactly have to be "elite"? Sorry to say there is no perfect recipe for success no matter how you try to convince otherwise. You put together the best 23 man roster you can and hope for the best ,ala Vegas last year. We had at least 2 "Elite" players lead us to ZILCH for the past 17 years so don't give me that "elite" crap as a recipe for success....bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, Alflives said: And where do teams mostly get their elite talent? Yes, at or near the top of the drafts. Yeah that’s why we need another top five pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, EdgarM said: OK so all "elite" teams with talent or with players that play "elite" win cups? LA won a cup and proceeded to miss the playoffs the next year. What? All past teams who won a cup have a goalie and 22 other players on the team so how many exactly have to be "elite"? Sorry to say there is no perfect recipe for success no matter how you try to convince otherwise. You put together the best 23 man roster you can and hope for the best ,ala Vegas last year. We had at least 2 "Elite" players lead us to ZILCH for the past 17 years so don't give me that "elite" crap as a recipe for success....bud. LA won two cups in a span of four years bud... lol . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, EdgarM said: OK so all "elite" teams with talent or with players that play "elite" win cups? LA won a cup and proceeded to miss the playoffs the next year. What? All past teams who won a cup have a goalie and 22 other players on the team so how many exactly have to be "elite"? Sorry to say there is no perfect recipe for success no matter how you try to convince otherwise. You put together the best 23 man roster you can and hope for the best ,ala Vegas last year. We had at least 2 "Elite" players lead us to ZILCH for the past 17 years so don't give me that "elite" crap as a recipe for success....bud. Most cup winners have atleast 4 elite talents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Silky mitts said: LA won two cups in a span of four years bud... lol . bur still missed the playoffs the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, EdgarM said: OK so all "elite" teams with talent or with players that play "elite" win cups? LA won a cup and proceeded to miss the playoffs the next year. What? All past teams who won a cup have a goalie and 22 other players on the team so how many exactly have to be "elite"? Sorry to say there is no perfect recipe for success no matter how you try to convince otherwise. You put together the best 23 man roster you can and hope for the best ,ala Vegas last year. We had at least 2 "Elite" players lead us to ZILCH for the past 17 years so don't give me that "elite" crap as a recipe for success....bud. We had the Twins and Bobby Lou. We didn’t have the Elite D man. I think JB is building a core group of elite players: Pettersson and Boeser, Hughes and Juiolevi, and Demko. We have elite players in all positions. I don’t think our team has ever covered all the key positions before. No D man in 2011. No goalie in the Naslund era. No D man in ‘94 or ‘82. now, we finally have all the key spots filled. Once these guys are all up here, then JB can tinker with the extra spots to make the team the best it can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Silky mitts said: Most cup winners have atleast 4 elite talents Oh Most, oh OK got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, EdgarM said: bur still missed the playoffs the next year. Yeah it happens when your team parties hard , and you won another cup your motivation isn’t really there anymore lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Alflives said: We had the Twins and Bobby Lou. We didn’t have the Elite D man. I think JB is building a core group of elite players: Pettersson and Boeser, Hughes and Juiolevi, and Demko. We have elite players in all positions. I don’t think our team has ever covered all the key positions before. No D man in 2011. No goalie in the Naslund era. No D man in ‘94 or ‘82. now, we finally have all the key spots filled. Once these guys are all up here, then JB can tinker with the extra spots to make the team the best it can be. We had Ehrhoff, Salo, Hamhuis, Elder in 2011. We had Brown and Lumme in 94'. Your right about the Nazzy era but we had King Richard in 82 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Oh Most, oh OK got it. Yeah bud is that a difficult concept to understand? Lol even all the past decade has the number of four elite players . Btw it’s just a Internet forum on a Friday night , have a beer don’t take things too serious . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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