JB has thrown away far too many assets - needs to be replaced as GM

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

hahaha funny thing is last year they were 3 points from missing the playoffs...hardly even a regular season wonder, more like an average team.

And didn’t they set a team record too? Oh sorry that was the year before at a whopping 105 points and that includes OTL Shoot-out wins.  In fact they NEVER broke 100 points before OTL became adding  a point and have done it five times since 1999-2000.    All between 100-105 points... which is a big whoopie.    We did it eight times since then including four times in a row and 117 as the high water mark, and also broke 100 points once when it used to be an actual accomplishment.  

 

What happens in Leaf Land ( la la land), is grossly exaggerated, the funniest thing is Kadri ruined their chances at a cup, this was the year to do it before all the cap came in and crushed their dreams.  Now they can try and west coast express it, except this time they have a good goalie but no defense and soon a questionable depth issue.  Their top guys better be on.   When Gardiner went down so did they.  Now no Gardiner at all...and no Kadri, sure they have a PP specialist instead for a year...don’t think it will be enough.   Hole Marner sticks it to them, he’s their best player by far.  And should get paid as such.  Which according to Dubas is at least 11.5 (wow, really wow). 

[CanadianRugby]

12 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

So we're a good team too based on your standard of applying a magical formula that discounts a team that doesn't win because you feel they could/should have.

Well they didn't win in the playoffs but they did win in the regular season.  Tampa had a historic season.  Losing in the playoffs makes them somehow comparable to the Canucks?  OK.  

[CanadianRugby]

12 hours ago, oldnews said:

I'm not going to bother pulling up some of your Leafs pumping posts - people around here get sensitive and wounded when quotes are pulled from the past, as if that is some kind of taboo or unfair practice - but you and I both know better.

 

If you don't understand Canucks fans "making fun of Toronto" you really don't understand sports, rivalries, trash talk - let alone our birthright as Canucks fans.

Yeah.  I like the coverage of the Leafs in Canada about as much as everyone else here.  Making us play at 4PM when the Leafs are in town.  Awful or nonexistent coverage of the 2011 team most of the season.  I hate the media in that way, and I don't want the Leafs to win the cup because the media will be even worse.  That said...

 

You can pick your media source/type now.  If you want only Canuck coverage, there's tons of it.  Do I want the Leafs to win?  No, but at the same time.  I don't really care, the Canucks had crushing losses to the Hawks, Kings and especially to the Bruins.  The amount of trash talk I've received from those fans (friends, co workers) has made me immune to really being butthurt over anyone winning.  I've seen it all.  Though, for me personally the Bruins are still the exception.  Canucks are bigger now, hope they manhandle the Bruins this year.  

So, don't preach to me about fandom or understanding sports.  When you cheer for damn Brad Marchand in the playoffs bud.  

[-DLC-]

9 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Well they didn't win in the playoffs but they did win in the regular season.  Tampa had a historic season.  Losing in the playoffs makes them somehow comparable to the Canucks?  OK.  

The Canucks also had a historic season - most goals for, fewest goals against since '78.  Top power play, third best pk.   So yes, comparable.  Sitting on top of the league is...just that.  Losing in the playoffs is still ... losing.  No matter which team. 

 

 

[Boeserker]

If you don't like what Benning has done here in a few seasons, have a gander at Edmonton's roster as it sits right now, after 5 seasons with McJesus:

 

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian
Granlund - RNH - Chiasson
Khaira - Gaas - Gagner
Lucic - Brodziak - Jurco

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Benning
Lagesson - Russell

Koskinen
Smith

 

 

 

Vomit Inducing

Edited July 7, 2019 by Boeserker

[oldnews]

9 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Yeah.  I like the coverage of the Leafs in Canada about as much as everyone else here.  Making us play at 4PM when the Leafs are in town.  Awful or nonexistent coverage of the 2011 team most of the season.  I hate the media in that way, and I don't want the Leafs to win the cup because the media will be even worse.  That said...

 

You can pick your media source/type now.  If you want only Canuck coverage, there's tons of it.  Do I want the Leafs to win?  No, but at the same time.  I don't really care, the Canucks had crushing losses to the Hawks, Kings and especially to the Bruins.  The amount of trash talk I've received from those fans (friends, co workers) has made me immune to really being butthurt over anyone winning.  I've seen it all.  Though, for me personally the Bruins are still the exception.  Canucks are bigger now, hope they manhandle the Bruins this year.  

So, don't preach to me about fandom or understanding sports.  When you cheer for damn Brad Marchand in the playoffs bud.  

Not a bad post until you buried/deluded yourself in a mountain of straw.

[Baggins]

10 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Yeah.  I like the coverage of the Leafs in Canada about as much as everyone else here.  Making us play at 4PM when the Leafs are in town.  Awful or nonexistent coverage of the 2011 team most of the season.  I hate the media in that way, and I don't want the Leafs to win the cup because the media will be even worse.  That said...

Nobody is, or can, "make us" play at 4pm. The home team sets the start time for every game. The visiting team, or a network, can request a different start time, but it's ultimately the home teams choice. The reason it's always a 4pm start every time the Leaf's visit is they draw the highest TV ratings every year, even all those years they sucked. High TV ratings = $$$ that is shared from national broadcasts. Making it in our own interest to accommodate requested start times for national broadcasts if it means higher ratings. If it's a regional broadcast we're more likely to go with the best time for ourselves as that money isn't shared and goes directly into the home teams pocket.

[Honky Cat]

2 hours ago, Boeserker said:

If you don't like what Benning has done here in a few seasons, have a gander at Edmonton's roster as it sits right now, after 5 seasons with McJesus:

 

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian
Granlund - RNH - Chiasson
Khaira - Gaas - Gagner
Lucic - Brodziak - Jurco

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Benning
Lagesson - Russell

Koskinen
Smith

 

 

 

Vomit Inducing

A very top heavy roster,..salarywise.....McD,Drai,Lucic..which leaves them stuck in 'neutral'.

 

It was only 3-4 years ago people were talking about who would win a cup first..EDM or TOR..?

[Josepho]

2 hours ago, Boeserker said:

If you don't like what Benning has done here in a few seasons, have a gander at Edmonton's roster as it sits right now, after 5 seasons with McJesus:

 

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kassian
Granlund - RNH - Chiasson
Khaira - Gaas - Gagner
Lucic - Brodziak - Jurco

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Benning
Lagesson - Russell

Koskinen
Smith

 

 

 

Vomit Inducing

The Oilers are definitely not what the bar should be. Both the Canucks and Oilers should have better rosters.

[spur1]

7 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Deb, I compared L.A's major rebuild years (06-09) rebuild to ours(16-18?.  Like you said they finished 28th place in 06..  That year they had 9 draft picks, the year after that they had 10, year after that 9 and 10 picks again in the 4th year of the rebuild.  I listed all the core assets they had put in to place during this time, leading to their cup success.  This year they decided on a rebuild, so they headed to the draft with 9 picks and haven't spent any money in free agency..weird..

 

St louis like you said were bad in 06, finishing 8th from last.  That's exactly why they had 9 picks that year, 10 the next and another 10 the year after that.. They went on to be a regular playoff team for years after they built a core from those 3 drafts. 

 

The Canucks finished 28th in 15/16, so you would think we would have an influx of picks for the upcoming draft..wrong.  we made 6 picks that year and it was a 2nd straight year without a 2nd round pick.   The next year we finished even worse at 29th place.  Luckily we got rewarded for a terrible coaching hire so we had an extra pick that year.  Management did nothing to get credit for having 8 picks that year but I digress.  Then the next year we are bad again...and AGAIN we head to that years draft with just 6 picks.  I don't feel like calculating the millions spent in free agency during those three years but I can tell you it was a lot. 

 

The redwings have had ample success for years now but even they know when to tear it all down, get proactive and bring in younger/newer assets at all costs.  16/17 they finished 25th, they had 11 picks that year.  17/18 they finished 27th, they had 10 picks that year.  18/19 they finished 27th, they had another 11 picks that draft.  

 

 

Three year rebuild period for Detroit = 32 picks - four 1st's, six 2nd's and eight 3rd's

 

Three year rebuild period for St Louis = 29 picks - six 1st's, five 2nd's and five 3rd's

 

Four year rebuild for L.A = 38 picks - six 1sts, four 2nds and seven 3rds.

 

Three year rebuild for Vancouver = 20 picks - Three 1sts, three 2nds, three 3rds.

 

Sorry to break it to you but we are building through free agency.  We pick just as much as everybody if not less at the draft so we can't be building through the draft but we do spend bucket loads of money every July 1st and now we're actually pretty tight against the cap, which is unacceptable considering how bad we've been for 5 years 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OH....I see...you find it unacceptable that we now have a pretty good team.

What team do you hope for? Obviously not the Canucks.

 

[Nucker 67]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 11:21 AM, Honky Cat said:

It was only 3-4 years ago people were talking about who would win a cup first..EDM or TOR..?

Remember how excited Lucic was to be signed by EDM? New arena being built, dreams of many Cups being won in. He could hardly contain himself, as if he was chosen on the Bachelorette lol

 

Now he's saying he'd love to play in VAN. "Hey, wait a sec, I think I wanna play with Pettersson!"

 

That EDM roster is pretty bad, considering all of the advantages they've had.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CanadianRugby]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, debluvscanucks said:

The Canucks also had a historic season - most goals for, fewest goals against since '78.  Top power play, third best pk.   So yes, comparable.  Sitting on top of the league is...just that.  Losing in the playoffs is still ... losing.  No matter which team. 

We're talking about the 2018 not the 2011 Canucks. 

[spur1]

1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

We're talking about the 2018 not the 2011 Canucks. 

How about we talk about the 2019/2020 Canucks. 

[cory40]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:15 PM, Generational.EP40 said:

1.) not saying to get ride of him entirely, just at the managerial level as he undoubtably has restocked the prospect cupboard for us which can’t be denied

 

2.) should retain some sort of position, preferably something like president or VP of hockey operations to overlook things and continue sharing his expertise when it comes to drafting/prospects

 

3.) so why should he step down / be replaced as GM? Let’s look:

 

 

That’s shocking. We have almost nothing of significance to show for over JB 5 year tenure.

 

 

 

...it’s no surprise we hired a newbie GM at the time. This critical transition phase the organization is in, we can’t be allowing this much trial&error with the scarce assets we have to work with in the first place. 

 

On top of the asset inefficiency, his inexperience as manager has been evident with the signings as well. Overpaying & giving extended years to questionable players, just unnecessary. All it’s done is become dead weight which can’t be moved and will anchor the roster in the years ahead.

 

That manager inexperience? To continue, he hasn’t been able to commit to a plan or vision since day1. A rebuild was clear as day but the R word was never uttered until Linden became president. Prior to that he dodged it like the plague and would never admit it. Thought he could fast track by trading picks in the beginning when those picks could’ve been paying dividends for us right now. Too much flip flopping between ideologies. Remember “meat & potatoes”? That died shortly but then he couldn’t fully let it go either as evident by drafting Virtanen coming off a major surgery...he just couldn’t help himself. Even now, we struck gold with EP. Rebuild was endorsed but now that we got lucky and EP has fast forwarded that timeline, he thinks we can fight for a playoff(WC) spot. The man can’t help himself and begins jumping the gun too easily, can’t stay focused on the mission. 

 

Just far too much indecisiveness and it’s fair to say we’ve seen enough. Let’s get a proven GM who can be relied on to stay the course, not get ahead of himself, and let the nature of the rebuild take place organically while JB overlooks the draft aspect. I think that would be best for all parties. Stack up on maximum assets, get a cap structure going, get rid of bad contracts in this vital transition phase when we will shortly but surely be on the rise. Hypothetically, targeting an Yzerman or someone along those lines as GM+President would be ideal. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

EDIT

summed up:

 

> JB pro: drafting

> JB cons: everything else about GMing (trades, signings, vision, commitment) 

> get someone who is better than Jimbo at the cons 

> keep Jimbo for the pro(prospects), just in a different/special role AKA I’m not saying cut him loose entirely

JB is building a winner. They all throw away too much. Its what is on the ice that counts.

[spur1]

2 minutes ago, cory40 said:

JB is building a winner. They all throw away too much. Its what is on the ice that counts.

Just shucking the chaff from the wheat. 

[kingofsurrey]

19 minutes ago, spur1 said:

How about we talk about the 2019/2020 Canucks. 

Sure . Always much easier to think next years club will be a playoff team .   Reality is though that the club has not been a playoff team for quite some time and had a terrible top 6 forward group and top 4 D group the last few years......

 

[spur1]

13 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Sure . Always much easier to think next years club will be a playoff team .   Reality is though that the club has not been a playoff team for quite some time and had a terrible top 6 forward group and top 4 D group the last few years......

 

What...I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday?

[bernzie71]

the team is going in the right direction, throwing away assets for more NHL ready players IE ( shinkruk for Grandlund) 2 nd for Vey)  and the trades were lop sided in a few deals over payment. i’ve always liked Jimmy B as a GM . sure he’s missed on a few big trades. but he has said many times he won’t gut the team for the playoffs. 

[Monteeun]

7 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Sure . Always much easier to think next years club will be a playoff team .   Reality is though that the club has not been a playoff team for quite some time and had a terrible top 6 forward group and top 4 D group the last few years......

 

LOL

[Ghostsof1915]

Thought experiment. Let's say for a minute ownership wants to go into a new direction for GM, and simply did not renew Benning. If they promoted Judd Brackett, I don't think much would change. If they brought a completely new GM you have to allow time for the following:

 

Examination of the team, and it's prospects, preferably in game situations. 

Make decisions of who stays, and who goes, and who is worth trading. 

Draft in 2020, UFA's, and then trades.

Green would probably get one season to be looked at before any decisions were made. 

 

So basically it's 2020-21 before you'd see any changes anyways. I don't think a new GM would come with a magic wand that he can fix everything right away. 

In the end, name me a GM that's out there that would want the job, and be BETTER than Benning that's available? Scotty Bowman is a consultant, and is getting up there in age. The only guy I can think of is Bill Armstrong of the St. Louis Blues. (Director of Scouting and Assistant GM) But once again, you're getting a guy who has the same resume as Benning (Assistant GM of a Stanley Cup team) with no track record. 

 

Personally, I'd stick with Benning, its the devil you know versus the devil you don't know. But maybe surround him with assistants who are good at cap management, pro scouting, and contract law. St. Louis has a senior advisor to the scouting staff, and to the GM.  Helping Jim, providing input, and easing his workload probably wouldn't hurt.