[Report] Leafs shopping Marleau

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

Yes. Retire as in Datsyuk did. His rights go to ARZ but he retires because he doesn't feel like playing in ARZ for 1 year to end his career. 

 

He'll make 1.25 million to play the season and he'll be 40 yrs old when season starts. I'm not sure he plays. 

 

So Leafs pay his 3 mill bonus on july 1st. Move his rights to ARZ and he retires. Leaves 1.25 mill on the table.

 

 

 

Bit of a shame if he retires anywhere else other than San Jose. I'm so glad the Sedins' careers weren't marred over money or chasing a Cup that may never come and simply looking like an aging desperate mercenary. It's like Iginla and Broduer (although he had financial issues that likely kept him going and kind of gave an ugly ending to an incredible career). I respect Doan for hanging them up as a Coyote for the same reason as well despite wanting to come here when it looked like there was a chance.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, mll said:

He wants to continue to play and has asked Toronto to trade him out West.  Arizona would be willing if: 

 

Why do all players seem to be willing to go to Arizona? With all these assets they're supposedly gaining from taking on all these bad contracts, you'd think they'd start to have a respectable team at some point.

[theo5789]

Dubas has a track record that if you hold out long enough, he will give in to your demands (eg Nylander). Dubas is simply playing a game of chicken with GMs and using the media to make it seem there is interest in hopes of getting a GM to falter and pull the trigger to gain what they can for taking Marleau and consequently Toronto giving up the least amount possible. The longer this drags out only puts more pressure on Dubas and he will being to sweat. I hope the league holds out and forces their hand to give up a big sweetener. The league (other GMs) needs Toronto to get punished for their terrible RFAs signings that has set a precedent for other teams to get into the same cap problems. Gillis got a bad name for being so arrogant and Dubas is acting like it as well thinking he's going to be innovative towards building his team, so hopefully no one gives him any get out jail free cards to further his arrogance.

[Provost]

Marleau would be a good choice if we ever decided to weaponize cap space.  His one year is when Toronto is in a bind, and we have no other use for that cap space for one year because we have to save it for Petterson/Hughes.

We could take on both Zaitsev and Marleau, but would want Kapanen and Liljegren to do it

 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Dubas has a track record that if you hold out long enough, he will give in to your demands (eg Nylander). Dubas is simply playing a game of chicken with GMs and using the media to make it seem there is interest in hopes of getting a GM to falter and pull the trigger to gain what they can for taking Marleau and consequently Toronto giving up the least amount possible. The longer this drags out only puts more pressure on Dubas and he will being to sweat. I hope the league holds out and forces their hand to give up a big sweetener. The league (other GMs) needs Toronto to get punished for their terrible RFAs signings that has set a precedent for other teams to get into the same cap problems. Gillis got a bad name for being so arrogant and Dubas is acting like it as well thinking he's going to be innovative towards building his team, so hopefully no one gives him any get out jail free cards to further his arrogance.

Yep exactly this. They will get to a point that they will be begging teams to take these guys. Just wait them out and just see how cheap these guys will get. We look just fine without fighting over Toronto's scraps thank you very much.

[The Lock]

26 minutes ago, Provost said:

Marleau would be a good choice if we ever decided to weaponize cap space.  His one year is when Toronto is in a bind, and we have no other use for that cap space for one year because we have to save it for Petterson/Hughes.

We could take on both Zaitsev and Marleau, but would want Kapanen and Liljegren to do it

 

Why would Toronto in their right mind trade away one of their best defense prospects when they like.... I dunno.... need defense?..... lol

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Why would Toronto in their right mind trade away one of their best defense prospects when they like.... I dunno.... need defense?..... lol

We definitely don’t want Craponen and  Littlegren.

we want Double Flamingo.

[VIC_CITY]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Dubas has a track record that if you hold out long enough, he will give in to your demands (eg Nylander). Dubas is simply playing a game of chicken with GMs and using the media to make it seem there is interest in hopes of getting a GM to falter and pull the trigger to gain what they can for taking Marleau and consequently Toronto giving up the least amount possible. The longer this drags out only puts more pressure on Dubas and he will being to sweat. I hope the league holds out and forces their hand to give up a big sweetener. The league (other GMs) needs Toronto to get punished for their terrible RFAs signings that has set a precedent for other teams to get into the same cap problems. Gillis got a bad name for being so arrogant and Dubas is acting like it as well thinking he's going to be innovative towards building his team, so hopefully no one gives him any get out jail free cards to further his arrogance.

That may be the current perception around the league but Dubas still holds leverage. If he ever felt Marner amd his agent were willing to go the Nylander route to get top dollar, he'd have no choice but to trade him. They simply cannot afford to pay him $10.5M+ and if that's what it's going to take to get Marner signed, you know there's a GM with a pretty damn good defenseman he'd offer up for him (theoretically making TO a better team either now or in the future depending on what they'd ask for in a trade). So it's not like Marner's agent can just make whatever demands he wants and expect to be a Maple Leaf at the end of the day. For all we know, Dubas could flip Marner for a top 5 pick and then go out and sign Panarin or Karlsson. Meanwhile Marner goes from a contender to a full on rebuild.

 

Edit: who knows, maybe Marner only fetches the......10th OA pick 

[Provost]

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

Why would Toronto in their right mind trade away one of their best defense prospects when they like.... I dunno.... need defense?..... lol

... because he isn’t NHL ready and they need to sign actual NHL defencemen this season as well as make cap room...

 

Their likely ask from us is Tanev who puts them way ahead on defence in the short and medium term compared with keeping Liljegren.

Edited June 3, 2019 by Provost

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

That may be the current perception around the league but Dubas still holds leverage. If he ever felt Marner amd his agent were willing to go the Nylander route to get top dollar, he'd have no choice but to trade him. They simply cannot afford to pay him $10.5M+ and if that's what it's going to take to get Marner signed, you know there's a GM with a pretty damn good defenseman he'd offer up for him (theoretically making TO a better team either now or in the future depending on what they'd ask for in a trade). So it's not like Marner's agent can just make whatever demands he wants and expect to be a Maple Leaf at the end of the day. For all we know, Dubas could flip Marner for a top 5 pick and then go out and sign Panarin or Karlsson. Meanwhile Marner goes from a contender to a full on rebuild.

 

Edit: who knows, maybe Marner only fetches the......10th OA pick 

So they overpay their RFAs and they are going to expect/play hard ball with their top performer this past season to sign a bargain deal? Sure they could trade Marner, but IMO, he's the last of that young trio that I would trade. Obviously they should've dealt Nylander when they had the chance, but if be surprised if they can get the same value as before. Right now, I would look to move Auston Matthews instead (he's an excellent player, but has run into a couple injuries the past couple of seasons and could still net an even greater return like a #1 dman considering he's a center). Marner's team isn't going to ask for anything less than the overpaid values they gave to their other RFAs because that is the bed they made. Is being a Leaf at the end of the day his top priority if they are going to expect him to take a discount when his peers on his same team didn't?

 

Panarin is going to cost the same or close to Marner and EK may be even more. They don't have to room to sign Marner so simply off loading him doesn't mean they can spend that same amount on those guys because they couldn't in the first place. Also it's under the assumption that those players even want to join Toronto who hasn't gotten past the 1st round in 3 years and are in cap trouble already. Doesn't really instill that contender confidence IMO.

 

The simple fact is everyone knows Toronto is screwed and is ripe for the picking for offer sheets. If Toronto isn't willing to pay the price to offload cap, then why should teams be doing any favours to the team that is consequently ruining the cap for everyone else along with their own?

[mll]

15 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Actually thats not correct. Datsyuk was 35+ contract just like Marleau. 

 

That's why Datsyuk was traded. ARZ ate the cap in exchange for flipping 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick also went to DET.  Wings got out of Datsyuks cap hit.. 

 

Doesn't matter about cap relief in ARZ. 

 

The contract was designed to be moved in year 3 so Leafs could get cap relief. 

 

Once he's traded he's off the Leafs books. They sweeten the pot for acquiring team to take on the cap hit. 

 

Like I said Marleau gets 3 mill on july 1st which the Leafs will pay and then trade him.

 

 He'll have 1.25 mill pay for next season. Team acquiring him is only paying 1.25 mill if he plays. Team that takes him is taking on his cap so leafs can get out of it.. 

 

 

 

His bonus is paid in 2 instalments and that might matter for some teams.  Friedman in his 31 thoughts of 12 May:

 

4. Odd quirk in Patrick Marleau’s contract: his signing bonus is paid in two instalments, one in July, one in December. Remember, he controls his future, but that adds a wrinkle to any potential move.

[18W-40C-6W]

11 hours ago, Provost said:

... because he isn’t NHL ready and they need to sign actual NHL defencemen this season as well as make cap room...

 

Their likely ask from us is Tanev who puts them way ahead on defence in the short and medium term compared with keeping Liljegren.

Liljegren is bordering on bust. Canucks fans over rate him, Jesus Jordan Subban had more points than him with the Marlies

 

if we want their best young dman it’s Sandin

Edited June 3, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W

[WHL rocks]

13 hours ago, mll said:

 

His bonus is paid in 2 instalments and that might matter for some teams.  Friedman in his 31 thoughts of 12 May:

 

4. Odd quirk in Patrick Marleau’s contract: his signing bonus is paid in two instalments, one in July, one in December. Remember, he controls his future, but that adds a wrinkle to any potential move.

That's interesting information.  Did he say how it's split ? Is it 50/50.

 

Usually all bonuses are paid July 1st..

 

So is 50/50 that means the new team will be paying him 2.75 instead of 1.25.  Still not too bad.  

 

 I still don't think it'll cost a 2nd rounder to move him.. adds a little more ask from the team taking him tho.

 

I'd rather have Marleau at 2.75 over Schaller at 1.9 we paying him next year again..

[rekker]

I could see Arizona and Chayka helping out Dubas. These two XBox GM' will stick together and help each other out.

[kloubek]

On 6/2/2019 at 6:08 PM, Provost said:

Marleau would be a good choice if we ever decided to weaponize cap space. 

This part of your post I agree on anyway. I see no reason not to try to take on a bad 1 or 2 year contract.  

 

Marleau + Kapanen

For

Tanev 50% retained

 

While this only buys Toronto a year, it gives them a top defender at a ridiculously low salary, and wipes 4m salary off the books.  That gives them enough to re-sign Johnsson, and if they move Kadri they should have enough to sign Marner.

 

It does mean we would need to sign a RD though, and chances are our D becomes even more porous. But on the flip side we have two more options to try out with Horvat and Pearson.

[D-Money]

The thing with Marleau is, reportedly, he only wants a trade to a California team. And the California teams don't have a lot of cap space, particularly SJ.

 

I wonder if Vancouver could do something similar to what Vegas did when Pittsburgh was trading for Brassard. Vegas was included in the deal as a team that would get Brassard, then flip him with retention to Pittsburgh. In theory, we could do the same, and grease the wheels on a Marleau to SJ/LA/ANA deal by retaining a few million, even though he will never be on the team. Maybe SJ would accept Marleau at 50% retained, and the bonus for taking the problem contract off Toronto's hands would go to us.

[mll]

4 minutes ago, D-Money said:

The thing with Marleau is, reportedly, he only wants a trade to a California team. And the California teams don't have a lot of cap space, particularly SJ.

 

I wonder if Vancouver could do something similar to what Vegas did when Pittsburgh was trading for Brassard. Vegas was included in the deal as a team that would get Brassard, then flip him with retention to Pittsburgh. In theory, we could do the same, and grease the wheels on a Marleau to SJ/LA/ANA deal by retaining a few million, even though he will never be on the team. Maybe SJ would accept Marleau at 50% retained, and the bonus for taking the problem contract off Toronto's hands would go to us.

SJ might not even have the cap space to bring back Pavelski.  

[D-Money]

9 minutes ago, mll said:

SJ might not even have the cap space to bring back Pavelski.  

Rumour is Pavelski wants term, but SJ is understandably wary about giving term to a guy who turns 35 next month.

 

Marleau at 50% would likely cost less than half of what Pavelski wants, and only be a 1-year commitment. And bringing Marleau back would be good for the fans, to soften the blow of a favourite like Pavelski walking.

[theo5789]

On 6/3/2019 at 9:08 AM, 18W-40C-6W said:

Liljegren is bordering on bust. Canucks fans over rate him, Jesus Jordan Subban had more points than him with the Marlies

 

if we want their best young dman it’s Sandin

So points are the only indicator of a good dman? A 20 year old bordering on bust?

 

If anything, your example of Jordan Subban alone should make you realize that points aren't everything.

 

I'm not saying Liljegren is a top end defender or whatever, but it's certainly way too early to think his career is written in stone already based on point production.

[rekker]

"REPORT. Leafs Shopping Marleau"           I had to reread the title. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me to see a TSN article. "Marleau,  Shopping With The Leafs" Wouldnt surprise me one bit to see a TSN article showing Marleau shopping at the mall with Marner and Mathews. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by rekker