[Report] Eriksson “NOT” likely to be moved on

[captainhorvat]

Dump him in utica and force him to retire.

[erkayloomeh]

13 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

Dump him in utica and force him to retire.

Give him a chance to make the team first 

[theo5789]

8 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Three years of garbage and four more to go at $6mil per, I'd say that's a whole lotta risk for a supposed "window" for a 31-year-old and for which I've still seen no substantiation outside of empty conjecture, hopeful speculation, and wishful thinking.  "Getting out of Edmonton" is hardly a panacea, no more than "coming home". 

 

He is a pure salary dump at this point, with no evidence to the contrary, and Edmonton fans themselves attest to it.  And moreover, we are certainly not in the position to take on such a dump, especially since Holland is likely not willing nor able to pay an equitable price to do so.  Again, it's their bed, let them lie in it.

Well obviously if Holland isn't willing to pay the price to make the deal, then we forget about it. I've said time and time again that it depends on what's added to the deal and not Lucic himself. But I am trying to suggest that camp will decide where he fits in the lineup. The risk we would take on should be mitigated with the additional return we would get. I've hardly been pumping Lucic's tires, but simply suggesting he would battle for a spot and there is opportunity because it's not like the competition blows him away. If Lucic cost around the 3-4 million range, there would be less gripes about him much like Eriksson.

 

We have seen Vancouver "fans" suggest we dump players left and right without much context. There's a lot of the vocal crowd that doesn't know what they're talking about other than pure overexaggerated reactions.

[theo5789]

8 hours ago, Silver Ghost said:

Edmontons top 6 relies almost exclusively on pace. Thats why Lucic couldnt stick there. I watch Edmonton a lot and Lucic is a significant step behind with those faster players. Thats why he has not fit there. He of course has played with some less than stellar linemates since but it is hard to watch reasonably closely and not see that he has lost a step and is not getting to the places he used to in order to produce offensively. 

 

The Canucks have the personnel now to have 4 lines based around speed. Evdn the 4th line will likely rely atleast to some degree on its speed. Thats the style the Canucks want to play. Will Lucic fit in that? He hasnt in Edmonton.

 

The Canucks are not in a place where they should be taking back a worse contract to get a sweetener. They should be co sidering adding a sweetener to get rid of Eriksson long before taking on a Lucic contract. They ars stepping into contender territory now. Contenders need all cap space improving their team. Lucic is a huge risk to be anything but a dead weight that will ge even harder to get rid of.

Edmonton is hardly the prime example of knowing how to utilize their players. We have seen time and time again players leaving that organization and finding themselves performing better. They wanted scoring wingers, but inexplicably never tried Ryan Spooner in that role for example. They made promises for Cagguila about playing with McDavid and never did. I guess no one is good enough for McDavid (or maybe McDavid doesn't make those around him better?). They shifted from playing more of a 4 line game 3 years ago with Lucic's best numbers in Edmonton, then gradually shifted more and more playing McDavid as much as they could.

 

I'm not saying that Lucic will suddenly become a better player here, who knows (we all thought Schenn was done too), but LE is a distraction now and getting rid of him has benefits to us in that sense as well. We need to stop looking at it as if it's LE for Lucic straight up. There would be much more involved in the deal and that will play a big part in the overall trade if it ever happens.

[J-P]

18 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

Give him a chance to make the team first 

This thought has struck me as well. Usually veterans and star players somewhat glide through the pre-season games and that’s fine, but in LE:s case this season just let him earn it and give him time in the top 9 with a playmaker on his line. If he doesn’t grab the opportunity, well off you go. 

[Alflives]

45 minutes ago, captainhorvat said:

Dump him in utica and force him to retire.

I think Loui will retire before he gets put on waivers.  In no way should JB add a sweetener (like Dumbass did to lose Marleau) to dump Loui.  

[Silver Ghost]

40 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Edmonton is hardly the prime example of knowing how to utilize their players. We have seen time and time again players leaving that organization and finding themselves performing better. They wanted scoring wingers, but inexplicably never tried Ryan Spooner in that role for example. They made promises for Cagguila about playing with McDavid and never did. I guess no one is good enough for McDavid (or maybe McDavid doesn't make those around him better?). They shifted from playing more of a 4 line game 3 years ago with Lucic's best numbers in Edmonton, then gradually shifted more and more playing McDavid as much as they could.

 

I'm not saying that Lucic will suddenly become a better player here, who knows (we all thought Schenn was done too), but LE is a distraction now and getting rid of him has benefits to us in that sense as well. We need to stop looking at it as if it's LE for Lucic straight up. There would be much more involved in the deal and that will play a big part in the overall trade if it ever happens.

My point wasnt really about whether Edmonton is a cluster&^@#. Lucic, unlike your examples, WAS given significant opportunity with the top players like McDavid and PP time and he could not keep up and fit their style of play. 

 

Lucic has a worse contract than Eriksson by a significant margin. And he is a worse player at this point. And he is a higher risk to never get his game back based on his lack of speed. There are far more risks with Lucic. 

 

I agree they should get rid of Eriksson ASAP. But not for an even bigger contract headache in Lucic. The Canucks are turning the corner to contenders. That means they are not in the position to take on dead money. I say pay the asset to get rid of the cap hit then see what else you can trade to recoup the organizational depth. Its the smarter overall play by Benning at this point.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Silver Ghost

[oldnews]

13 hours ago, shiznak said:

I’m not sure Leivo is a “better” player or better two-way player, for that matter, than Lucic. As I posted in the Lucic thread, which you seemingly ignored, but let me refresh your memory.

 

Now compare that to Leivo’s 61% offensive zone start time, and his 54% corsi; playing on the top PP unit, with our top offensive players, with over 20+ minutes of more PP time than Lucic. So, let me ask you whose actually the better defensive forward out of the two? Leivo has shown some promising shifts, but he’s way too inconsistent with them. Beside those glimpse of brilliance, he’s been pretty unnoticeable more often than not when he’s on the ice. He just kind of coasts around.

 

I do agree on your assessment that a Eriksson for Lucic swap is probably improbable for both teams as both players have negative value and I highly doubt Lucic “sweetener” is anything more than a second round pick or a B level prospect. If we were to trade for Lucic, I’ll ask Holland to retain 25% of his caphit for Goldobin and a 3rd. Then ship out Eriksson in a different trade for whatever we can get without retaining any salary back. 

You sound like you're asking a rhetorical question with a measure of the usual smarm - but I'll answer it anyway if I didn't already (I have a limit of how much time I'll waste on people that repeatedly choose blinders or mere defensive attitude).   You are confusing yourself by not breaking down Leivo's numbers and oversimplifying the numbers you're trying to interpret - while throwing in some laughable 'eye test' about floating around, ironically, in a comparison relative to Lucic.

 

First, Leivo's minutes with EP were not going to result in what you think would be good underlying numbers.

EP was a rookie - whose underlying numbers were not good - not by any stretch.   EP had 70.5% ozone starts, 51.4% corsi (that is a 19% gap relative to Leivo's 7%) - and only 28% of that ice time with was Leivo - meaning regardless of who was on that wing, EP's line 'lost' the 'puck possession' battle, but often won the 'war', simply by virtue of how elite EP is in converting his chances (19.4% shooting percentage).

 

What you've done is taken a soup of mixed numbers for Leivo and without breaking it down at all into the actual different contexts he played in, while attempting to come to a reductive, small sample implication that Lucic is a 'better shutdown/defensive forward.  Leivo's 'inconsistency' was in his production - your story about him 'floating around' is subjective nonsense.

 

You're also misleadingly suggested Lucic was a fixture on shutdown units - when 19% of his ice time was spent on the shutdown unit with Brodziak - whose underlying numbers are considerably better than Lucic's btw (Brodziak with 31.7% ozone starts, 46.5% corsi) - while the RNH line is not a 'shutdown unit' - that line got a shade under 50% ozone starts.

 

The 'underlying' reality - Lucic's possession numbers were inflated by Brodziak, and his production, while playing with a 69 pt player (RNH) - was horrible.  You can spin that as being an effective 'shutdown' player but I don't think you know what you're talking about.  LE is a far better shutdown forward - whether or not he hits people.   Lucic would either need to regain productivity, or remain a real misfit.   Gambling on the former = not a good gamble imo.

 

Leivo - not only was more productive than Lucic - but when you separate his underlying numbers from the high ozone starts (and relatively low corsi while playing with EP) - you get a better perspective on how he performs in a bottom six role.

 

If you want some 'purer' numbers, look at his outcomes in Toronto, on an otherwise unimpressive shutdown unit (Ennis and Gauthier, players Babcock would not and could not trust in key situations, using Tavares as a shutdown unit when push came to shove)   Leivo's numbers in Toronto = 35.6% ozone starts, 50.7% corsi,  30.1% ozone starts, 48.6% corsi...44 takeaways last year to Lucic's 27.    Your story of Leivo does not compute - and if you need the counter-testimony of informed Leafs fans, read the comments of the Leafs fans on these boards when they lost Leivo due to the Nylander signing.   Leivo is not only a better player than Lucic at this point - he's a fraction of the cost, period.

Edited July 16, 2019 by oldnews

[oldnews]

10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

 

Camp will prove his worth and where he belongs on the roster

 

?  Lucic.  Will.  Be.  Here. For. Camp?

I hope not.

[buddyguy]

To Dallas: Loui Eriksson (30% retained)

                  Jake Virtanen 

 

To VAN: Blake Comeau or Cogliano and a mid - late round pick

 

I honestly don't even know if we'll even get a pick.

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, buddyguy said:

To Dallas: Loui Eriksson (30% retained)

                  Jake Virtanen 

 

To VAN: Blake Comeau or Cogliano and a mid - late round pick

 

I honestly don't even know if we'll even get a pick.

I honestly don' t know if/why  we'd bother giving up a Virtanen to dump Eriksson.

[Nigerian]

I know everyone is on board with LE getting traded, as am I, but with the added depth at forward maybe LE finds his scoring touch with better line mates. That’s the problem since he has been here; scoring. From what I recall with his time in Boston he was notorious for scoring a majority of his goals right in front of the crease, banging in rebounds. I always thought he would be perfect for the twins, when the twins were still the dominent possession duo that they were. They lost their step as the game got quicker and LE was used to coasting off his line mates. I say give him a chance on Horvats line with Miller and see with those two driving the play if he can be useful in the top 6 again. That line would also be one of our best defensive lines as LE is still a great defender. Who knows maybe he picks it up and raises his value a bit before the Trade deadline and he becomes more of an asset rather than a dump. Or maybe he starts the season with an own goal again. 

[captainhorvat]

5 minutes ago, Nigerian said:

I know everyone is on board with LE getting traded, as am I, but with the added depth at forward maybe LE finds his scoring touch with better line mates. That’s the problem since he has been here; scoring. From what I recall with his time in Boston he was notorious for scoring a majority of his goals right in front of the crease, banging in rebounds. I always thought he would be perfect for the twins, when the twins were still the dominent possession duo that they were. They lost their step as the game got quicker and LE was used to coasting off his line mates. I say give him a chance on Horvats line with Miller and see with those two driving the play if he can be useful in the top 6 again. That line would also be one of our best defensive lines as LE is still a great defender. Who knows maybe he picks it up and raises his value a bit before the Trade deadline and he becomes more of an asset rather than a dump. Or maybe he starts the season with an own goal again. 

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I honestly don' t know if/why  we'd bother giving up a Virtanen to dump Eriksson.

Goldy sure, Jake, no thanks. 

[zimmy]

54 minutes ago, J-P said:

This thought has struck me as well. Usually veterans and star players somewhat glide through the pre-season games and that’s fine, but in LE:s case this season just let him earn it and give him time in the top 9 with a playmaker on his line. If he doesn’t grab the opportunity, well off you go. 

Exactly. This might be completely outside of the box thinking and certainly flammable in this forum but why not prop up LE as a potential asset ? I suppose it's easier, and will serve to placate the bloodthirsty rancor surrounding this player, to send him straight to the purgatory of Utica as a punishment for not living up to his contract but if there is any chance to maneuver a trade I'm quessing his value couldn't be any lower. The effort should be in highlighting his positive attributes in order for some other club to take a leap of faith and, colaterally, make the Canucks look good, as well, as an organization that supports all its players (even though admittedly Louie hasn't come close to earning his pay grade or that kind of loyalty).

 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Nigerian said:

I know everyone is on board with LE getting traded, as am I, but with the added depth at forward maybe LE finds his scoring touch with better line mates. That’s the problem since he has been here; scoring. From what I recall with his time in Boston he was notorious for scoring a majority of his goals right in front of the crease, banging in rebounds. I always thought he would be perfect for the twins, when the twins were still the dominent possession duo that they were. They lost their step as the game got quicker and LE was used to coasting off his line mates. I say give him a chance on Horvats line with Miller and see with those two driving the play if he can be useful in the top 6 again. That line would also be one of our best defensive lines as LE is still a great defender. Who knows maybe he picks it up and raises his value a bit before the Trade deadline and he becomes more of an asset rather than a dump. Or maybe he starts the season with an own goal again. 

I don't disagree with the idea that LE is still a decent/good two way player - but it seems like a deeper problem / ie burning bridges - with his agent publicly talking about wanting to be dealt, himself questioning his coaches' deployment....I think the 'let's give Loui a chance with top 6 forwards' thing may have passed.   And let's get real for a moment - the Canucks have about 7 top 6 forwards excluding him - with Baertschi already on the cusp / tweening - so how does LE get gifted another top 6 go around?   That would require a real kick-start on his part - that would be on him to show up and bust his way up the lineup.  I'm not a believer that 's going to happen.  I think he's - at best - in around the 10 spot on the depth chart at present, and with guys like Leivo and Motte as alternatives, LE has an uphill battle due not only to regressed performance, but also fit in those roles.

 

He would be good injury depth to call up from Utica though - if his agent can't find him a home that doesn't involve an unrealistic expenditure on the part of the Canucks.  The Canucks don't 'need' to move him, at least not with any urgency.   Expecting to 1) utilize his NTC to pick a destination and 2) have the Canucks waste an asset to move him - imo is unrealistic = equally unrealistic as expecting another shot in the top 6.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by oldnews

[buddyguy]

43 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I honestly don' t know if/why  we'd bother giving up a Virtanen to dump Eriksson.

What else would you give up as a sweetner? Because I don't think Goldy (for example) will be enough.

[D.B Cooper]

48 minutes ago, buddyguy said:

To Dallas: Loui Eriksson (30% retained)

                  Jake Virtanen 

 

To VAN: Blake Comeau or Cogliano and a mid - late round pick

 

I honestly don't even know if we'll even get a pick.

 

1 minute ago, buddyguy said:

What else would you give up as a sweetner? Because I don't think Goldy (for example) will be enough.

No way would they trade Jake to ditch LE.

Goldy and a pick maybe, but I don’t think Goldy holds any real value.  

 

My best bet would be LE is a Canuck next season.  The buy out will be easier next year, or with any luck he has a half decent season and his contract is easier to trade.

 

Ownership prob doesn’t want 6 mill in the minors, but might be ok with it.  

 

I just want the guy gone.  

I hated the signing from the start and it just keeps getting worse.  

[Solinar]

Miller Pettersson Boesser

Pearson Horvat Eriksson

Baertschi Sutter Ferland

Virtanen Beagle Leivo

 

Motte and Goldobin on the outside looking in, with Roussel on the IR till christmas.  At that time, make a move.

 

For all the talk of Eriksson being moved on, unless he becomes a drama child in the dressing room, there is no way the team is paying a prospect and pick to move on from him this year.   You ride him in that slot above, and hope to hell that he comes around.   He was productive there at the end of the season, and hopefully, that isn't a one off.  Then you trade him July 1st/2nd next year to a cap floor team and might even get a mid round pick to do it.  He is still a useful NHL player, and fills a role we actually need on the team.  Take his salary out of the picture, or pretend he's 2.5 million, and all of this goes away.  Too bad we overpaid to get him, that's on the team.  Now do the hardwork to build him up again.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Solinar

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, Solinar said:

Miller Pettersson Boesser

Pearson Horvat Eriksson

Baertschi Sutter Ferland

Virtanen Beagle Leivo

 

Motte and Goldobin on the outside looking in, with Roussel on the IR till christmas.  At that time, make a move.

 

For all the talk of Eriksson being moved on, unless he becomes a drama child in the dressing room, there is no way the team is paying a prospect and pick to move on from him this year.   You ride him in that slot above, and hope to hell that he comes around.   He was productive there at the end of the season, and hopefully, that isn't a one off.  Then you trade him July 1st/2nd next year to a cap floor team and might even get a mid round pick to do it.  He is still a useful NHL player, and fills a role we actually need on the team.  Take his salary out of the picture, or pretend he's 2.5 million, and all of this goes away.  Too bad we overpaid to get him, that's on the team.  Now do the hardwork to build him up again.

If you're looking to 'pump and dump' him I could see the point.

But I don't think he's earned the right to be penciled in that high in the lineup.

 

And I think if it's about winning games, the best I could personally do is (with Roussel out).

 

Miller EP Boeser

Pearson Horvat Baertschi

Eriksson Sutter Ferland

Leivo/Motte Beagle Virtanen

 

But even there, I don't like the idea of sitting a player like Motte - maybe the team's best relative performer and most consistent effort last year....

 

I'm not sure I'd be willing to send the message that LE deserves ice-time more than a Tyler Motte - who imo is an ideal shutdown unit winger - great puck pursuit, relentless energy, always physical, 9 goals last year, 2 of them shorthanded, while getting 33% ozone starts....LE is certainly a better option if you're moving him up the lineup, but I'm not sure he's earned that or is a better fit on a shutdown unit.   Tough one for Green considering he's questioned being utilized as I'm suggesting here....

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by oldnews