J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W

[N4ZZY]

10 hours ago, Harvey Specter said:

 

I'll take this quote with a grain of salt but it looks like Holtby and Miller has settled this like gents and moved forward. The accountability between teammates is the best course of action right now, especially since the team has tuned out the coaching staff. I sure hope there was a Players-Only meeting sometime during this Toronto stretch. 

Surprised to hear that they didn't have one considering how poorly the team has been playing. 

 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

JT has been making a lot of apathetic plays that are just straight up bad and stupid. His body language again tonight, he is giving up on plays.

Starting to question his attitude as a player. I've been a big supporter since we traded for him, but his level of play has been unacceptable. Starting to see the merit in AV's comments before that Miller simply didn't get it when he was with NYR. Starting to see his old habits come back again, apathy and nonchalance approach to the game.

 

Considering how much of a leader he was last year, starting to get concerned that a major leader in the room and on the team is show casing this sort of behavior. 

 

 

[notafanatic]

13 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

JT has been making a lot of apathetic plays that are just straight up bad and stupid. His body language again tonight, he is giving up on plays.

Starting to question his attitude as a player. I've been a big supporter since we traded for him, but his level of play has been unacceptable. Starting to see the merit in AV's comments before that Miller simply didn't get it when he was with NYR. Starting to see his old habits come back again, apathy and nonchalance approach to the game.

 

Considering how much of a leader he was last year, starting to get concerned that a major leader in the room and on the team is show casing this sort of behavior. 

 

 

I was also a big JT trade supporter when it happened.

Clearly he has significant flaws which were not evident last season.

Your commentary is too kind though,

JT lacks mental toughness.  When the going gets really tough he melts down and can no longer lead.  He also is a bit of a cheater.  He wants his offence the most and will give up his 2 way game to get it.  He is not the complete player I thought he was.  I thought he was Stone-lite.  He is not.  That was a mirage.

 

[aGENT]

14 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

JT has been making a lot of apathetic plays that are just straight up bad and stupid. His body language again tonight, he is giving up on plays.

Starting to question his attitude as a player. I've been a big supporter since we traded for him, but his level of play has been unacceptable. Starting to see the merit in AV's comments before that Miller simply didn't get it when he was with NYR. Starting to see his old habits come back again, apathy and nonchalance approach to the game.

 

Considering how much of a leader he was last year, starting to get concerned that a major leader in the room and on the team is show casing this sort of behavior. 

 

 

I'd wager it's that he REALLY doesn't like losing. He should be using that as motivation but instead is playing frustrated... And it shows. 

 

IMO, stringing some wins together would vastly help a lot of players presently struggling, Miller included.

[J-P]

Not liking Miller's body language or giveaways. Got the flames back into the game as he caused the equalizer by being too cute with the pass in the d zone. 

 

Miller's my main worry going forward, i think most other players will turn it around and even if not they're still young whereas Miller's in his prime and expected to be a leader both with his play and his attitude. As EP is still struggling i think this is even more of an issue. 

 

To be fair, some of this was evident with him last season as well but overshadowed by his great play overall.

[oldnews]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:37 PM, Lazurus said:

A blind man can see

good summary of your point.

[Wilbur]

JT Miller cracked the top 100 in all-time Canuck scoring with his assist tonight.

 

97.  Rosaire Paiement	RW	147	44	47	91
98.  J.T. Miller	LW	89	31	60	91
99.  Steve Bozek	LW	191	46	44	90
100.  Radim Vrbata	RW	142	44	46	90
101.  Loui Eriksson	RW	250	38	52	90

[JustABandwagoner]

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jt-miller

 

He has 2 more years signed after this one. Is it worth considering what "value" he has on the trade market considering we are a dumpster fire. 

[WeneedLumme]

Sure^^, because as we know, it's really easy to replace point-per-game players, so when one of ours has a slump, JB should immediately dump him and grab another one. And of course this season's one month sample size of Miller's play is far more significant than last year's whole season sample size.

Edited February 26, 2021 by WeneedLumme

[Boudrias]

Thought Miller had a solid game. Thought he made Gaudette’s game more effective. Top 3 lines were all a threat. 

[JustABandwagoner]

9 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Sure^^, because as we know, it's really easy to replace point-per-game players, so when one of ours has a slump, JB should immediately dump him and grab another one. And of course this season's one month sample size of Miller's play is far more significant than last year's whole season sample size.

I never said to trade him. I said to look at his value on the trade market. Maybe there may be a team that overpays for him. 

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

I never said to trade him. I said to look at his value on the trade market. Maybe there may be a team that overpays for him. 

In other words, shop him around. Yeah, that generally causes a player to feel wanted and to play better.

[JustABandwagoner]

2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

In other words, shop him around. Yeah, that generally causes a player to feel wanted and to play better.

I mean if a team really wants him and overpays why not!?!?!? (not saying a team will). Hockey is a business. Can't be soft with all these "relationship" things. 

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

I mean if a team really wants him and overpays why not!?!?!? (not saying a team will). Hockey is a business. Can't be soft with all these "relationship" things. 

Because if you try that and no team is willing to overpay for him so you subsequently end up keeping him, then you have a player who knows that you don't really want him that much because you were trying to get rid of him.

 

Doing foolish things like that is a guarantee of poor morale for the team, which in turn guarantees poor performance from the team, which is why no competent GM will shop a player around unless they really don't want the player any more and don't care who knows it.

 

And it's not as if point-per-game players are easy to acquire. Dumping one because he has been going through a slump for some weeks, even though he is still producing very close to a point per game, is a really knee jerk, short sighted, silly idea.

[Gurn]

2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Because if you try that and no team is willing to overpay for him so you subsequently end up keeping him, then you have a player who knows that you don't really want him that much because you were trying to get rid of him.

This is assuming the player finds out you were trying to trade them, since Miller does not have any trade restrictions there is no need to tell him, till the deal is done.

Also, so what if he finds out?

Players get traded, it is part of pro hockey.

Trading any player does not have to be a knee jerk reaction, it can be an honest, rational attempt to better your team.

Final thing, it is not necessary to get "overpaid" in order to make a deal, when the value is good enough you take the deal.

[WeneedLumme]

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

This is assuming the player finds out you were trying to trade them, since Miller does not have any trade restrictions there is no need to tell him, till the deal is done.

When a player is being shopped around the league, word gets out.

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Also, so what if he finds out?

He will know that he is not wanted by his team. Which is not that big a deal if you are for sure going to move him, but is not a smart thing to do if you don't succeed in getting what you want for him, because then you have an unhappy player, which does not improve morale, performance or his value.

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Players get traded, it is part of pro hockey.

Trading any player does not have to be a knee jerk reaction, it can be an honest, rational attempt to better your team.

Trading a player does not have to be a knee jerk reaction, but when it is a knee jerk reaction to a one month slump where he is still producing but is not up to his peak effectiveness, it is stupid.

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Final thing, it is not necessary to get "overpaid" in order to make a deal, when the value is good enough you take the deal.

Maybe in NHL21, but in the real world dumping a top player (there are currently only 20 players in the NHL who have produced more points than Miller this year and there were only 16 last year) is something a team only does if they have a surplus at his position and a gaping hole that the trade would fill. Or if he demanded a trade, or if they can't afford to keep him. If none of those applies, no competent GM is going to trade him, even if Raymond, Ballard and a pick may appear to be sufficient value to some.

[JustABandwagoner]

5 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Because if you try that and no team is willing to overpay for him so you subsequently end up keeping him, then you have a player who knows that you don't really want him that much because you were trying to get rid of him.

 

Doing foolish things like that is a guarantee of poor morale for the team, which in turn guarantees poor performance from the team, which is why no competent GM will shop a player around unless they really don't want the player any more and don't care who knows it.

 

And it's not as if point-per-game players are easy to acquire. Dumping one because he has been going through a slump for some weeks, even though he is still producing very close to a point per game, is a really knee jerk, short sighted, silly idea.

Look at NSH. Didnt they openly say they will be open to shopping everyone besides XYZ player smfh

 

A GM isnt doing their job if they dont at least listen to calls 

 

Sounds like you also don't know how to maximize value. What i mean by this is, based on what I can see, you will only trade someone who demands a trade. Sounds like you wont even shop someone like Pearson

Edited February 27, 2021 by DontMessMe

[Kootenay Gold]

I think what is missing in this conversation is the two very different levels of discussion that go on at a management level. GM's are constantly discussing possible trades, swaps etc between themselves and the GM's of other teams; that is their job. These exchanges are going on throughout the year and usually unbeknownst to the players or their agents.

 

It is only when the banter between GM's becomes a lot more detailed concerning a possible trade, that the player's and agent's are involved in the conversation.

[WeneedLumme]

6 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

Look at NSH. Didnt they openly say they will be open to shopping everyone besides XYZ player smfh

Saying you are open to moving everyone is nothing at all like shopping one individual player, which is what is necessary to establish his maximum value.

6 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

 

A GM isnt doing their job if they dont at least listen to calls 

Listening to calls is not how you find out the value of a player.

6 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

 

Sounds like you also don't know how to maximize value. What i mean by this is, based on what I can see, you will only trade someone who demands a trade. Sounds like you wont even shop someone like Pearson

Actually I have a great deal of experience in maximizing value. The way an NHL GM would do that would be to first, look at his player depth charts for all the other NHL teams.

 

Then he would call the GMs of each team that both needs a player like the one he wants to move, and has assets that he covets and thinks he might be able to pry away from the other GM.

 

If you have a useful player, like Miller, most times there would be a good chance that you can orchestrate a bidding war that way and squeeze a very high price out of someone.

 

However, you don't move a valuable asset unless you either are forced to, or are improving your team by moving an asset where you have surplus depth, for one that fills a significant hole. And I really don't think we have a surplus of point-per-game top line players who can play any forward position and are strong on faceoffs, PK and PP.

 

And right now, Covid/ the salary cap/ the ED have devastated the trade market. We got Schmidt, a top pairing Dman, the most valuable type of asset in the NHL, for a 3rd round pick in 2022, remember? The chance of getting a good price for JT or anybody else right now is very slim.

 

When you talk to a number of different GMs while trying to move a player, word will get out, it's not like just talking to one which might stay a secret. 

 

When you try and fail to trade a player, you devalue that player in two ways. One, he knows he is not wanted, which is not a good thing.

 

And two, should you get serious about moving him later, the fact that you tried and failed to move him previously makes him less valuable the next time around.

 

If there is anything here you can't follow, just let me know, I would be happy to clarify.

 

 

[EternalCanuckFan]

Anyone else of the opinion that it might not be a bad idea for the Canucks to give the line-up a run with Miller at C apart from Pettersson?  Miller has looked good in the middle and moving forward, that would provide much more flexibility for the team since they have more Ws than Cs that are likely to be ready to make the jump soon.  As it stands, moving Miller to C would allow the line-up to look like this (players under team control - not necessarily saying this should be the line-up order btw):

 

Hoglander-Petterson-Boeser

LW-Horvat-Gaudette

Roussel-Miller-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Options for open positions/alternates:  Podkolzin (I assume he will be signed), Hawryluk (appears he's a RFA this summer?), Bailey (also still a RFA this summer apparently), Lind, Jasek, Lockwood, Gadjovich (long shot, IMHO, but would be nice to see, especially after his play so far this season), Michaelis, Focht

 

While it doesn't look significantly different from:

 

Miller-Petterson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Gaudette

Roussel-3C-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

the options for the 3C position are super limited within the system and I don't think the Canucks can be players for some of the "big" names who would probably fill that role (e.g. Lowry, Laughton, etc.). 

 

We'll see if the Canucks make any moves for the TDL this season and what happens at the Expansion Draft which may significantly alter personnel expectations heading into  the off season, but whatever the case is, I think moving Miller to C will give the Canucks significantly more balance instead of trying to throw money in efforts to fix their lack of C depth.  It also forces Miller to play more responsibly.  The Canucks have existing W depth in the system to at least try and promote from within, and there will likely be more Ws than Cs available in FA so to me this makes the most sense for Miller's role in the future.

Edited March 17, 2021 by EternalCanuckFan