ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Ok, cap is staying the same next year. Barrie had no interest in an extension with Colorado. You basically proved his point. You are full of it.. "I love it here. I’ve been here my whole career and I’d like to be a part of it going forward. But at the end of the day, that’s up to management and where they see this going. That’s probably a conversation for a later date. But this is the second home for me. It’s become home. I spend a lot of time here. I love the guys. I love the organization. At the end of the day, it’s a business. But I do love it here." https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/03/tyson-barrie-hopes-to-sign-contract-extension-this-summer.html The only reason av's moved his is because it makes no sense locking in a high cap, long term with Barrie when they have Makar who is 2.0 version.....and they also just added Byram. Barrie loved it in Colorado 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, 6string said: The last sentence: is more like an accelerated welfare than parity, Bettman takes care of his closer friends like in NY, Phil., NJ and others as you mentioned. Unfortunately, I do believe that the NHL is rigged. It's not the fact that it has anything to do with the Canucks. It's the apparent favouritism towards certain markets. The biggest travesty I think is that the Kovalchuk penalty was VERY light for NJ. They were supposed to sacrifice a 1st round pick (as per the rules, which Bettman later waived for them). Kovalchuk also retired early and miraculously, they do not have to pay for the cap recapture penalty which applies for Luongo's and LA's - even retroactively. Afterwards, NJ suspiciously won two lotteries. Both of which I stress were not because of them being last place. Other teams jumped as many as 10 spots to win high(er) draft picks. Canucks being the ultimate loser of everything lost the Pettersson draft (which worked out in our favour). Lost the draft where we drafted Hughes (we won that also) and finally the 10th overall (Podkolzin). The NHL tries to &^@# with teams not named NYR/Phil/NJ and we come up on top. The hockey gods ARE watching. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Analyst82 said: Now we need to hope Tyson does not resign and we get him in free agency next year. I hope he does resign, a re-sign for the Leafs would be bad, bad very bad for us getting him next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dazzle said: Unfortunately, I do believe that the NHL is rigged. It's not the fact that it has anything to do with the Canucks. It's the apparent favouritism towards certain markets. The biggest travesty I think is that the Kovalchuk penalty was VERY light for NJ. They were supposed to sacrifice a 1st round pick (as per the rules, which Bettman later waived for them). Kovalchuk also retired early and miraculously, they do not have to pay for the cap recapture penalty which applies for Luongo's and LA's - even retroactively. Afterwards, NJ suspiciously won two lotteries. Both of which I stress were not because of them being last place. Other teams jumped as many as 10 spots to win high(er) draft picks. Canucks being the ultimate loser of everything lost the Pettersson draft (which worked out in our favour). Lost the draft where we drafted Hughes (we won that also) and finally the 10th overall (Podkolzin). The NHL tries to &^@# with teams not named NYR/Phil/NJ and we come up on top. The hockey gods ARE watching. Spot on! Chicago and Boston are two others who benefit too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dazzle said: I'm honestly surprised you'd agree that Sakic got wrecked in this deal, despite being a COL fan. People talk about Benning being bad at trades and FA signings... this is EASILY Sakic's worst transaction. I am just puzzled by how an apparently smart man like Sakic would make such a horrendous, high risk trade such as this that he didn't need to do - AND for KADRI for crying out loud. You guys didn't need Kadri at all. Awful awful trade. What Av's needed to do this year was bump Soderberg down to a 3rd line role and move Barrie out for a legit 2nd line center and add some scoring wingers. I was pushing for moving barrie to oilers for RNH. But Av's picked up Burakovsky and Dosnkoi which i thought were good moves but then moving out Soderberg for a 3rd? And then this move for Kadri....after Kerfoot has gotten off to a great pro career start? Not sure what is going on? He must be banking on Kadri getting back to his 30 goal seasons. Don't know if he will. Lot's of people were calling for Sakic not too long ago, but then he his a homerun on dealing duchene and I think that bought him some time. If Av's take a step back this year I think the heat will be back on. Edited July 2, 2019 by ForsbergTheGreat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Pickly said: This helps Toronto this season. Even if Barrie walks which is likely Kerfoot for Kadri is a nice swap. Baffled why Sakic made this trade. I would assume that other GM'S realized the asking for one year of Barrie was too high and perhaps Barrie had made it clear that he is going to FA; so other GM'S probably decided to take there chances in FA instead of overpaying Colorado as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You basically proved his point. You are full of it.. "I love it here. I’ve been here my whole career and I’d like to be a part of it going forward. But at the end of the day, that’s up to management and where they see this going. That’s probably a conversation for a later date. But this is the second home for me. It’s become home. I spend a lot of time here. I love the guys. I love the organization. At the end of the day, it’s a business. But I do love it here." https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/03/tyson-barrie-hopes-to-sign-contract-extension-this-summer.html The only reason av's moved his is because it makes no sense locking in a high cap, long term with Barrie when they have Makar who is 2.0 version.....and they also just added Byram. Barrie loved it in Colorado He can love Colorado and still want to leave in FA. Ohlund loved Vancouver then left after 11 seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 The Leafs may not have a greater sum of parts right now than they did last season.... But I think they are a better team now. The difference imo - is that when they lost Kadri to yet another meathead act on his part - possibly ruining the Leafs dreams of revenge on Boston - he left his team in a horrible predicament - they essentiall became a 2.5 line team, with two NHL playoff pairings. Now that isn't all on Kadri - they were already only a 3 line and two pairing team - that much is squarely on Dubas et al. But take the present lineup - even after having to spend a pick to lose Marleau, and add Brown into a Zaitsev dump..... Hyman Tavares Marner Jonsson Matthews Nylander Petan Spezza Kapanen Moore Kerfoot Shore They actually have the makings of a viable 4th line there - and their 3rd line could use work - Spezza may just be a placeholder that doesn't translate, and Petan is still a bit of a question mark, but that is their weak link line, and it's not that bad - Kapanen is a helluva piece there - who might move up but if you move a Nylander to that 3rd line, it's awfully soft imo. Nevertheless, I think Brown was a relatively low price to pay to swap Zaitsev/Ceci contracts. The Leafs could potentially be a more balanced 4 line team this year -whether or not they lost a bit of quality/volume on paper. Reilly Ceci Muzzin Barrie Dermott Harpur I think Hainsey was excellent - a significant loss to free agency - but again, the makeup of these pairings imo is better than it was in their playoff loss. Ceci is a young guy that can move, defend and enable Reilly to be Reilly, perhaps as well as Hainsey in due course. Muzzin Barrie may not be a thing - perhaps the Leafs load up a pairing - but in any event, again you have a pair of potentially good complenents to each other and if they go the other way, Muzzin Ceci could make a good matchup pairing while Reilly and Barrie play pond hockey. Dermott Harpur - some people may look at that as a downgrade on Gardiner/Dermott - but Gardiner Dermott was a disaster imo - Dermott not really ready for a playoff run, at least not while depending on Gardiner, and Gardiner being Gardiner (don't like to lay to much 'blame' on Gardiner, but that was just not a good, viable playoff pairing. At least Harpur is the kind of guy that could enable Dermott, and if not, find a not particularly scarce alternative. Last years Leafs may have been a higher sum of parts, but imo not as well built - not as complementary, not as viable throughout the lineup. They've lost Rosen, Grundstrom, Brown, Leivo/Carcone, wasted some 2nds on rentals, lost a 1st to a bad idea (signing Marleau to 18+million) - but they still have a pretty good forward prospect in Bracco, and a couple good D prospects. They don't have that many holes at this point = a couple, maybe three. Their depth may be an issue though, particularly if they get unlucky with injuries. Now - if the Leafs - under less pressure - could use a Nylander or Kapanen to solidify that blueline - ie add a signifcant upgrade on Harpur, perhaps push Ceci down the lineup - then I think they could make waves beyond the regular season (if healthy). They may as well go 'all-in' at this point - they've used key futures to get to this point - I think they should remain aggressive. They are a 3C upgrade and a RHD, maybe a bottom six upgrade away (Leivo would sure look good as opposed to a Shore type signing away imo) - but where they couldn't afford to retain Hainsey, they managed to make two pretty good deals with Snottawa and Colorado to solve 2/3 of their right side. Perhaps the pressure did forge them a bit. I'd be interested to hear what Babcock thinks of this group relative to what he had to work with a few months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Real losers in this deal are the Giants. Bryam likely starts the season in the NHL after this deal, at least for 9 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Sakic is one unpredictable GM. Never liked the idea of dealing Ryan O'Reilly - think that was a braincramp. They had ROR, McKinnon and Duchene - they should have dealt Duchene - and wound up dealing him anyway.that Turned around and made a killing off that Duchene deal though - back in the saddle. But then this - he likes big deals, but it appears it was his turn to take it on the chin - at least that's what it looks like at this point. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, oldnews said: The Leafs may not have a greater sum of parts right now than they did last season.... But I think they are a better team now. The difference imo - is that when they lost Kadri to yet another meathead act on his part - possibly ruining the Leafs dreams of revenge on Boston - he left his team in a horrible predicament - they essentiall became a 2.5 line team, with two NHL playoff pairings. Now that isn't all on Kadri - they were already only a 3 line and two pairing team - that much is squarely on Dubas et al. But take the present lineup - even after having to spend a pick to lose Marleau, and add Brown into a Zaitsev dump..... Hyman Tavares Marner Jonsson Matthews Nylander Petan Spezza Kapanen Moore Kerfoot Shore They actually have the makings of a viable 4th line there - and their 3rd line could use work - Spezza may just be a placeholder that doesn't translate, and Petan is still a bit of a question mark, but that is their weak link line, and it's not that bad - Kapanen is a helluva piece there - who might move up but if you move a Nylander to that 3rd line, it's awfully soft imo. Nevertheless, I think Brown was a relatively low price to pay to swap Zaitsev/Ceci contracts. The Leafs could potentially be a more balanced 4 line team this year -whether or not they lost a bit of quality/volume on paper. Reilly Ceci Muzzin Barrie Dermott Harpur I think Hainsey was excellent - a significant loss to free agency - but again, the makeup of these pairings imo is better than it was in their playoff loss. Ceci is a young guy that can move, defend and enable Reilly to be Reilly, perhaps as well as Hainsey in due course. Muzzin Barrie may not be a thing - perhaps the Leafs load up a pairing - but in any event, again you have a pair of potentially good complenents to each other and if they go the other way, Muzzin Ceci could make a good matchup pairing while Reilly and Barrie play pond hockey. Dermott Harpur - some people may look at that as a downgrade on Gardiner/Dermott - but Gardiner Dermott was a disaster imo - Dermott not really ready for a playoff run, at least not while depending on Gardiner, and Gardiner being Gardiner (don't like to lay to much 'blame' on Gardiner, but that was just not a good, viable playoff pairing. At least Harpur is the kind of guy that could enable Dermott, and if not, find a not particularly scarce alternative. Last years Leafs may have been a higher sum of parts, but imo not as well built - not as complementary, not as viable throughout the lineup. They've lost Rosen, Grundstrom, Brown, Leivo/Carcone, wasted some 2nds on rentals, lost a 1st to a bad idea (signing Marleau to 18+million) - but they still have a pretty good forward prospect in Bracco, and a couple good D prospects. They don't have that many holes at this point = a couple, maybe three. Their depth may be an issue though, particularly if they get unlucky with injuries. Now - if the Leafs - under less pressure - could use a Nylander or Kapanen to solidify that blueline - ie add a signifcant upgrade on Harpur, perhaps push Ceci down the lineup - then I think they could make waves beyond the regular season (if healthy). They may as well go 'all-in' at this point - they've used key futures to get to this point - I think they should remain aggressive. They are a 3C upgrade and a RHD, maybe a bottom six upgrade away (Leivo would sure look good as opposed to a Shore type signing away imo) - but where they couldn't afford to retain Hainsey, they managed to make two pretty good deals with Snottawa and Colorado to solve 2/3 of their right side. Perhaps the pressure did forge them a bit. I'd be interested to hear what Babcock thinks of this group relative to what he had to work with a few months ago. They still need a quality back up goalie. Still not sold on their grit, very little size and sandpaper there. Still need another quality shutdown D with size. I hate the Leafs so to be honest I am not impartial with my comments. They gained some offence from the D today but lost a lot of center depth. One injury at center and they are screwed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dazzle said: Kinda not really. The fact that Karlsson has a long-term, suspiciously frontloaded contract - the same type of contract that the whole CBA lockout was supposed to be about - was JUST signed. The consequences would be that teams wouldn't be able to afford all their players. However, let's see - New York Rangers signed Panarin for an absurd 11.5 million. Big market team. Seems to be able to spend as much money as they need to do. Not parity. Who else? Philadelphia with Kevin Hayes. Another big market team. Hmm... New Jersey was just gifted two high first round picks. Not a big market team? They used to not be a big market team, but that was many years ago. They signed a HUGE Kovalchuk contract (which they were later allowed to get out of) proving that they are NOT as small market as they might portray themselves to be. The only "parity" that you talk about is Las Vegas and to some extent Seattle picking up players from other teams. My only point with parity, is that a team cannot stockpile talent and spend it's way to a cup. Regardless of the status of the team, the cap will always be the determining factor of what a team will do. I also read somewhere that most of the teams considered to be losing money or small markets are being operated in a way to be losing money in paper but as whole it is still a very profitable business; can't remember the article though but I believe it was about the Panthers. Edited July 2, 2019 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Tomatoes11 said: Lol people here are disregarding the 3rd Colorado got. I am still pissed about the 3rd and the 1st for Miller. Still shaking my head at that trade. If Jost is expendable now cause he is overkill on the 4th line, we should get him if we can’t get Turris for dirt cheap. I'm not sure it's that funny - that 3rd in the scheme of things - with Barrie, Kerfoot and retention going the other way, barely moves the meter wadr. Why would Jost be expendable - he's a winger at this point. It is interesting how bad Turris has been in Nashville - really bad this year - and a 5x6, he might not cost a great deal if they were to cut their losses at this point, but I don't see how or where he'd fit here, and if that cap is manageable (I'm skeptical that an LE could/would be going the other way, but I guess you never know - I never would have guessed that Kadri would carry more value than Barrie in a deal like this one). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, rekker said: They still need a quality back up goalie. Still not sold on their grit, very little size and sandpaper there. Still need another quality shutdown D with size. I hate the Leafs so to be honest I am not impartial with my comments. They gained some offence from the D today but lost a lot of center depth. One injury at center and they are screwed. They were already screwed - one meathead Kadri act in the playoffs and they became a 2 and half line team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, oldnews said: Are you two too Canada-day drunk to actually read this thread? I think so. It's virtually unanimous opinion in here, with a few exceptions, that the Avs got rekt in this deal. Both opinions are stoopid. Kadri is pretty much a Horvat. Nothing wrong with him as a player and the going cost of an excellent 2 way #2C is, well, a Barrie, essentially. Nobody got rekt. It was a good hockey trade. If Barrie is a rental, so? So what? It’s window-playoff time for the Avs too and he might walk as a UFA afterwards anyways. I assume the Leafs and Kadri wanted a trade. The Leafs are too deep at C and Kadri doesn’t want to get buried and paid less for being a soldier behind the big boys, perhaps. I could slice this several ways and it wouldn’t matter. Somehow the Leafs will still be stoopid, I mean I stoped reading after page 8 but it was non-stop Leaf bashing if it wasn’t equal parts Sakic bashing. The Leafs got rid of a bad rep and the Avs found some nastiness they lacked. The Leafs needed a reliable Dman to get the puck to the skilled forwards and the Avs had one to spare to shore up their depth in the top 9. I think this one trade makes both teams better playoff teams. Not bad for Day one. Edited July 2, 2019 by 189lb enforcers? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, oldnews said: They were already screwed - one meathead Kadri act in the playoffs and they became a 2 and half line team. Yes. It's a team built on a house of cards really. I'm not one that thinks this trade pushes them ahead another gear. Also, I think Barrie was a Plan C. I'm thinking they had better suited right hand Dmen targeted for trade but couldn't close a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You basically proved his point. You are full of it.. "I love it here. I’ve been here my whole career and I’d like to be a part of it going forward. But at the end of the day, that’s up to management and where they see this going. That’s probably a conversation for a later date. But this is the second home for me. It’s become home. I spend a lot of time here. I love the guys. I love the organization. At the end of the day, it’s a business. But I do love it here." https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/03/tyson-barrie-hopes-to-sign-contract-extension-this-summer.html The only reason av's moved his is because it makes no sense locking in a high cap, long term with Barrie when they have Makar who is 2.0 version.....and they also just added Byram. Barrie loved it in Colorado Nice to have an asset like Barrie to move for a big return. Question is, what do Leafs do when his contract runs out. Sakic has done a great job of gathering assets without encumbering himself with huge contracts to old hands. He embraced their bad years and converted them into valuable pieces. Makar means they can acquire a valuable two way centre and pick up some great draft spots. Edited July 2, 2019 by Ray_Cathode Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Both opinions are stoopid. Kadri is pretty much a Horvat. Nothing wrong with him as a player and the going cost of an excellent 2 way #2C is, well, a Barrie, essentially. I can't move beyond this comment. Kadri is nothing like a Horvat, beyond a '2C' label. Horvat was a gamer from day one - worked his ass off - legitimate two way center since he stepped into the league and upticking consistently since. Horvat is/was what the Leafs dream Kadri could become. If you look beyond comparable production to context, Horvat is multiples the player that Kadri is, and is only going to continue to extend that gap imo. Kadri on the other hand, idled around for years, 'misundersttood/ 'lazy'/not a hard enough worker (perhaps you can hang some of that on a Phil Kessel culture in Toronto -- but Kadri was was also in the relatively uncoachable conversation - only the loyal types like Burkee really stuck with him. What I think happened - he finally rounded into a pretty good player - the Leafs add some legitimate top 6 forwards and they look to make Kadri into a two way guy - like Horvat - that can handle hard minutes - and produce. Babcock makes inroads there - but really, Kadri continues to be Kadri. He does stupid shizz on a regular basis, doesn't have the emotional intelligence or disciplne to truly handle that transition - may have the tools physically/skill wise, but not the hockey intelligence imo. Interesting that they never use him in a penalty killing role, and yet,he's allegedly a matchup/shutdown center. I don't think he has the attention span, attention to detail or discipline. But what's worse, he lacks judgement repeatedly, at critical, heightened times and nothing throws a monkey wrench into his team quite like that. Leafs in an epic 3rd battle with Boston - Kadri does Kadri. The end. He regressed yet again this year - maybe his ego can't handle being 3rd C to Tavares/Matthews (he should thrive in those conditions, behind two lottery center lines) - whatever it is, I would not question Babcock et al for a minute if they had enough of tyring to get through. He's not even an agitator or rat - unlike Marchand, who drives people nuts, is entirely hateable but effective, Kadri is a liability playing on the edge - doesn't have the impulse control/discipline/emotional intelligence to measure his actions. Marchand is a rat you win with (aside from one of the worst line changes in NHL history lol - karma is a prick Brad). Kadri is one you can't trust. Cannot believe what Sakic gave up for this player - must be the 'change of scenery' theory, but you don't give up Barrie/Kerfoot for that - too many problems/liabilities with the most important muscle Kudos to the Leafs on selling that, that high. Great move. The right move to convert him into another asset - just shocked who that is. Edited July 2, 2019 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post combover Posted July 2, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2019 Sakic gets a top 6 NHL player under contract upgrades his draft position and a solid prospect. Leafs get a solid dman on and expiring contract a good young player and downgrades there draft position it’s a pretty equal deal. Not sure how so many see sakic losing he got pieces back for a player he was going to lose for nothing. I guess we are so use to players leaving for nothing when a gm is pro active and moves the assets for a return it seems “crazy”. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Elias_Pettersson said: Wouldn’t Jost be 3c and Kadri 2c with Soderberg being traded? He wasn’t their second line center in the playoffs. He was 3rd or 4th line in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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