Benning's Window of Opportunity

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True.  Some great players have come out of the CHL, and been great immediately.  I see OJ as a young boyish looking guy, who still needs to mature a lot physically.  He has that baby face look.  

We agree on that...a late bloomer and that’s exactly what the Dr. Ordered.  If he was Borque, came in and won a Calder no EP, and if he came in and was Chabot the following year, no Hughes and if he came in the next year no Podz.   Benning is a freaking genius. 

[higgyfan]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Only because Pouilet was our third guy.  It was deliberately/accidentally wide open for him.  Otherwise he’d have stayed.  His AHL time wasn’t great, wasn’t bad.  The coaches gave him every opportunity to succeed, giving him PP time off the hop.  His 5 x 5 play was still adjusting.  I’ve tempered my expectations but do think he will get a call up, and wouldn’t be surprised if he makes it difficult for Benning once he gets here.   Benn is on an very tradeable  contract but is also one heck of a D-man, a huge upgrade on Poo, and a decent one on Hutton.   I doubt he lets him go unless OJ overachieves next season. 

I don't mind if Olli stays in Utica until well after Christmas.  He doesn't need to be under a very critical microscope in Canuckland and he can take his time adjusting to the pro game with the other prospects with the Comets.  We know there will be injuries (and lots of them) during the season, but there are several other young guys that deserve there chance.  Saunter, Brisebois, and maybe Teves, Rafferty might get a chance.

[Canuck Surfer]

On 7/17/2019 at 8:16 PM, IBatch said:

You bet...and just as importantly CHI also won a cup with those guys but the best version of that team came later.  In other words like you said at the end the window does not have to be short.

You bet!

 

The Window is about our best players; Brock Boeser, Bo Horvat, Quinn Hughes (?), Elias Pettersson,, then Markstrom and Edler.

 

So there is some question as to how long Edler and Markstrom can be at the top of their game?  Demko is a candidate, and so too is Juolevi (fingers crossed). And Markstrom has only, at 29, just ascended to the development where he has been a true number one? So Demko & Juolevi, whether they can jump in when Edler & Markstrom decline? May determine if our window is extended.

 

Some have noted, or questioned if we may need a 2knd premium D?  If the D core has enough even now? Pitt, for example, won a cup with truly less capacity on D than St Louis this year.  Their team still had the IT factor! But it is a question. If Elias is truly a superstar as he appears is possible? It could be enough. If we make the play off's this year? I can see us repeating, like Calgary with Hamilton & Hamonic, us with JT Miller, the formula of trading draft picks or futures. This time specifically for a core D man.

 

Or in summer 2020 we could clear cap (Roussel, Eriksson, Sutter) and sign Tyson Barrie? It is a question, but there are potential answers.  

 

The supporting cast; JT Miller, Jake Virtanen, I suppose he could join our core players, Tyler Myers, Chris Tanev, Adam Gaudette, Michael Ferland, Troy Stecher, Tanner Perason, Antoine Roussel.  They can determine if a core good enough to win?  Does in fact do it.  They need to have the speed and physicality, enough depth, including the will to win, to smother other teams. Still perform when, inevitably, one or two fall off due to injury. I like our current supporting cast! But teams like Chicago and Boston, even LA, proved you can win more than one cup with interchanging worker bee's! 

[Canuck Surfer]

A lot more pieces are suddenly in place.

 

So everyone is excited!  For the first time in years. 

 

It is fun to be a Vancouver fan at the moment!

[Gaudette Celly]

On 7/17/2019 at 11:10 AM, Hogs & Podz said:

Great post... Like you say along with Sid and Kilgore's post... I'll summarize Bennings tenure so far as: 

Years 1-3 'one step forward and two steps back'.

Years 4 and 5 'two steps forward and one step back'.  This year and going forward?

Okay, this is where it just doesn't add up.  If in the first three years they were effectively going backwards but only the last two going forwards, we would still not be caught up to 2014 when they started.  It's the JD Burke "Gudbranson trade set the rebuild back 4-5 years" mantra.  If all of this is correct, we are now in around 2013.  Does anyone seriously believe that?  Little wonder there are still some asking "When are they going to start rebuilding?"

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

A lot more pieces are suddenly in place.

But how did that happen?  Benning refused to rebuild, and was going backwards for three years.  The rebuild only started in 2017.  It's just not possible unless Benning is an absolute genius and magician, rebuilding a team in just two years...

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Side note 6 of the 11 top scorers on the 16-17 knights team have player games in the NHL. Juolevi playing games this year will make it 7/11 which is a pretty good average if you ask me. 

Old Blazers-good! 

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I don't mind if Olli stays in Utica until well after Christmas.  He doesn't need to be under a very critical microscope in Canuckland and he can take his time adjusting to the pro game with the other prospects with the Comets.  We know there will be injuries (and lots of them) during the season, but there are several other young guys that deserve there chance.  Saunter, Brisebois, and maybe Teves, Rafferty might get a chance.

Your braver then me.  I have a soft spot for Brisbois, he’s progressed nicely and does the little things that usually means you don’t notice him, which is a good thing.  OJ will get lots of primo minutes and every opportunity to succeed given his draft slot and expectations, those other guys have to work that much harder to get their chances.

[Hogs & Podz]

17 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Okay, this is where it just doesn't add up.  If in the first three years they were effectively going backwards but only the last two going forwards, we would still not be caught up to 2014 when they started.  It's the JD Burke "Gudbranson trade set the rebuild back 4-5 years" mantra.  If all of this is correct, we are now in around 2013.  Does anyone seriously believe that?  Little wonder there are still some asking "When are they going to start rebuilding?"

Wasn't meant to be taken literally.  Just making the point that forward progression in most areas of the organization hadn't occured until more recently.  To quantify moves in each department is debatable based on a number of factors.  I was attempting to simplify the subject... Because you know... I know what I'm talking about. 

[189lb enforcers?]

10 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

But how did that happen?  Benning refused to rebuild, and was going backwards for three years.  The rebuild only started in 2017.  It's just not possible unless Benning is an absolute genius and magician, rebuilding a team in just two years...

Ease up on the drama. 

 

If Benning planned to pick top 5-7, please describe how he executed that. This is where EP and QH came from, despite his seemingly doing everything possible to prevent a dive(s) to the bottom, yet those were the result(s). 

 

How the rebuild’s assets were accrued remain a point of contention. Should we only accept the result without assessing anything else when discussing the supposed rebuild? Seems kind of NPC-like to take that at face value, devoid of critical thought, to me anyways. Was this the intended/expected result? This is is key in understanding perspectives here. 

 

His past managerial actions and thus intentions definitely seem like he was doing everything to prevent such results, hence the noise about the supposed rebuild, IMO. No drama needed to state the obvious. 

 

Results vs intentions aka Plan.

Planned or unplanned. 

Accidental, Stealth or Genius. 

 

I think this is an excellent chance to perceive how each of us thinks, not what. 

 

I’m genuinely curious:

 

Objectively, do you think you could convince me that JB was targeting the very top of the draft and lottery all this time while simultaneously loading up/retaining quality vets and Guddy’s, to execute a rebuild effort/Plan? 

 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Accidental, Stealth or Genius. 

Stealth only to those who couldn't read between the rather obvious lines 

[Kelly Green]

I agree the team should make the playoffs next year and continue improving to the point of being true contenders in the years following, but I think people have the Benning/Linden plans backwards.

Imo it was Linden who wanted to trade futures to give the Sedins another shot at the playoffs and Benning who wanted to stick to the original plan. Remembering how angry Trev seemed to be before he quit things clearly weren't going his way.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

But how did that happen?  Benning refused to rebuild, and was going backwards for three years.  The rebuild only started in 2017.  It's just not possible unless Benning is an absolute genius and magician, rebuilding a team in just two years...

If a team was to start a rebuild from scratch today. What would they need to have in order for you to call it a success 5 years from now?  

 

Elite young core, prospect depth, cornerstone goalie, generational center?. what criteria do you use?

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

But how did that happen?  Benning refused to rebuild, and was going backwards for three years.  The rebuild only started in 2017.  It's just not possible unless Benning is an absolute genius and magician, rebuilding a team in just two years...

I'm not sure who you are responding to?

 

I was never a strip down, scorched earth, play the kids at all costs advocate. Trade Tanev, get rid of Sutter, Complain because Vanek was signed, OMG'z, we signed Roussel, the kids are all gunna get waived, etc. Never! Draft and develop yes, but play them when they earn a spot. Your chatter boxing at me is off base. You should take the trouble to pay attention to content when you are responding.

 

I have always supportive of chances to improve where possible. Give or take two / three years ago? I became heavily against spending futures. Open to all other avenues. Up to and including trading for Miller. But I conceded, in this and other threads, that considering the other moves, the Miller trade can work out.

 

Go wink at somebody else please.   

[Rob_Zepp]

23 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Better in goal? Calgary is better for the time being.

[JamesB]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

True.  Some great players have come out of the CHL, and been great immediately.  I see OJ as a young boyish looking guy, who still needs to mature a lot physically.  He has that baby face look.  

As I've gotten older I have discovered that more and more NHL players have that boyish baby face look. Not sure why NHL players keep get younger-looking.

[Battlemonger]

We make the playoffs in 2020; we make it to the conference final in 2021; we win the cup in 2022.

[Cup2022]

1 hour ago, Battlemonger said:

We make the playoffs in 2020; we make it to the conference final in 2021; we win the cup in 2022.

I agree

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Battlemonger said:

We make the playoffs in 2020; we win the Cup in 2021; we win the cup in 2022.

Fify

[Jaimito]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Fify

Nux never lost a conference final yet. 3-0.