The curious case of Nikolay Goldobin

[BrockBoester]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Now wouldn’t this be funny if this turned into the “new” Burrows thread - as in he grew a huge pair in the off season, rips it up in the pre-season, earns a spot and scores 60 points and becomes a big part of the next core and a fan favourite. 

That's definitely not going to happen. At least not this year.

Burrows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goldobin at this point

 

Although I would love to see a leadership structure of:
 

C - Eriksson

A - Goldobin

A - Tryamkin

 

(C goes to Tryamkin after Eriksson leaves and then Podz gets the other A)

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, BrockBoester said:

That's definitely not going to happen. At least not this year.

Burrows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goldobin at this point

 

Although I would love to see a leadership structure of:
 

C - Eriksson

A - Goldobin

A - Tryamkin

 

(C goes to Tryamkin after Eriksson leaves and then Podz gets the other A)

Yep I agree there is a .10 chance of that happening but he it’s that high because he does have quite a lot of upside as we’ve seen.   Ha ha on your continued C for Trypumkin.   The point I was making was back before Burrows broke out there was a group of CDCers that wanted him gone; there is a possibility that Goldobin or someone else could do the same - like JV.  Maybe Woo later gets some games and doesn’t make some people happy and then later explodes....OJ too.   You just never really know.   I might be being generous with the 10 % chance Goldy makes it, I laughed when I saw someone call him fools gold as that is more likely then anything at this point - BUT you just never do know with these guys.  Maybe he’s worked like crazy this summer to get stronger and is ready to play a two-way game and show the coach that he’s more valuable then before - or he’s worked hard on his skills and made his shot a deadly laser...that’s pretty much what he will have to do to make it work and stay on the team, starting with an amazing camp and pre-season.   Have to wonder are they keeping him around just to help get Tree back and for future connections with Podz..maybe there is something to that...he’s definitely pushed out of the top six on paper and hasn’t shown much to have value on the bottom six.   Was surprised JB qualified him and I’d have him as the 13th forward at best at this point.   They must be willing to at least give him a shot - or as I’ve suggested before by qualifying him it was JBs way of thanking him for his services knowing full well he’s waiver bait and will get picked up- sure he would have recycled him for a pick at the TDL and the draft if there was any serious interest - which I don’t think there was - but as a cheap freebie he will almost certainly get picked up.

 

Hope  he makes us all happy AND that this thread is not forgotten and rivals Burrows later  - but also understand that the odds are greatly stacked against him.   Again the point was you just never really know- just like way back when we got Burrows, man did other teams regret that. 

[smokes]

Even with the additions of the top six players on the Canucks. I still think Goldy is in the top four in terms of offensive ability. The problem with Goldobin is that Green tried to take an offensive young player and try to turn him into a two way player too early in his career. He's offensive, not defensive. I remember a long stretch where Goldi was the third leading scorer on the team for a long time. He does what he was drafted to do which is put points on the board. Goldy was always billed as an offensive young player so it confuses me sometimes why he has been criticized so much on the defensive end. What left is a confused young kid who no longer believes in the things he does on the ice. It reminds me of a little like Virtanen's situation when he was forced to change his game too early in his career. Also, why do rookies get criticized in public at all? Isn't that what the locker room is for. They did that with Virtanen, Tryamkin and now Goldy. How many other organizations do that to thier young players? What gets me is that there seems to be a double standard in the team. There are huge defensive issues on Boeser's game but he seems to have a pass as no one really talks about it. When I look around the league with young players, most of them are not great defensively but they learn over time. With Goldy it seems like he is being forced to figure it all out too soon.  I can understand the need for the player to play defense because the Canucks were constantly being attacked in their own end but picking on the rookie does no one any favors.

[86Viking]

Goldy got the tough love Hutton got the year before. Maybe he comes to camp and wins a roster spot?

[Ray_Cathode]

5 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Highly doubt we buy out Sutter. No need. Traded maybe, but now doesn't seem to be the time. Hopefully he puts together a respectable season and we move him next offseason. Miller is capable of playing center, but we want him in our top 6 (I can only imagine the backlash of trading a 1st for a 3rd line center). Right now the 3rd line center is being groomed for Gaudette, but it appears we want to make a push this year which would hopefully allow Gaudette to develop with lots of minutes in Utica (see Kesler after the lockout season amongst others, it can be beneficial).

 

The concept of having three lines that can attack and defend sounds good, but it might be spreading out the talent too thin. Sutter when healthy (I know it's a lot to ask of him right now) is a 30-40 point 3rd line center. If Jake can up himself to a 30-40 point guy, perhaps made possible with a more offensive option of Baertschi or Pearson, we might just have that 3rd line that is strong defensively, but pitches in for that secondary scoring anyway.

 

I am curious to see if Goldobin could click on say a line with Miller/Pearson and Horvat. Assuming Ferland is with EP and BB. It will push out/down someone like Baertschi or Pearson and Leivo. So we will see how camp does play out. Goldy is actually one our more skilled guys currently and while I like the physical adds we have made, we could use some more talent to balance it out too.

To trade Sutter you need a buyer, has he done enough to garner an offer? Sutter has missed 71 of his cast 164 games, and only has 15 goals and 17 assists TOTAL over his last TWO seasons at a cap hit of 4,375,000. I don’t see a long line of buyers. The reason for moving Sutter is to get the cap space to sign Goldobin (in the first place) AFTER signing Boeser - that will most likely take 9 mil and we only have about 5.

 

Ferland, Pearson, and Miller are not untalented guys - they bring skill and some edge - Goldie has shown no history or f scoring at their pace, never mind the physical presence and defensive awareness of these vets. I like Goldie, every shift is an adventure on both sides of the puck, sadly for Goldie... he is an adventure on both sides of the puck.

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, smokes said:

Even with the additions of the top six players on the Canucks. I still think Goldy is in the top four in terms of offensive ability. The problem with Goldobin is that Green tried to take an offensive young player and try to turn him into a two way player too early in his career. He's offensive, not defensive. I remember a long stretch where Goldi was the third leading scorer on the team for a long time. He does what he was drafted to do which is put points on the board. Goldy was always billed as an offensive young player so it confuses me sometimes why he has been criticized so much on the defensive end. What left is a confused young kid who no longer believes in the things he does on the ice. It reminds me of a little like Virtanen's situation when he was forced to change his game too early in his career. Also, why do rookies get criticized in public at all? Isn't that what the locker room is for. They did that with Virtanen, Tryamkin and now Goldy. How many other organizations do that to thier young players? What gets me is that there seems to be a double standard in the team. There are huge defensive issues on Boeser's game but he seems to have a pass as no one really talks about it. When I look around the league with young players, most of them are not great defensively but they learn over time. With Goldy it seems like he is being forced to figure it all out too soon.  I can understand the need for the player to play defense because the Canucks were constantly being attacked in their own end but picking on the rookie does no one any favors.

Boeser is at least willing to try on defense though; people were all over him for blocking shots when he took one in an awkward spot.  No one expects a Selke candidate, but a consistent effort in both of ends of the rink is the bare minimum.  Goldobin still hasn't brought that.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

To trade Sutter you need a buyer, has he done enough to garner an offer? Sutter has missed 71 of his cast 164 games, and only has 15 goals and 17 assists TOTAL over his last TWO seasons at a cap hit of 4,375,000. I don’t see a long line of buyers. The reason for moving Sutter is to get the cap space to sign Goldobin (in the first place) AFTER signing Boeser - that will most likely take 9 mil and we only have about 5.

 

Ferland, Pearson, and Miller are not untalented guys - they bring skill and some edge - Goldie has shown no history or f scoring at their pace, never mind the physical presence and defensive awareness of these vets. I like Goldie, every shift is an adventure on both sides of the puck, sadly for Goldie... he is an adventure on both sides of the puck.

I understand trying to fit Goldobin as I've advocated trying to find some lineup options to get him into the top 6, but moving Sutter isn't the solution IMO.

 

I understand trading Sutter requires a buyer, but at this point it's trade or he plays. Buying him out is pointless and would create a hole. I've suggested trading him next offseason after hopefully a healthier and back to normal production (30-40 points while being strong defensively and on faceoffs). If he gets hurt again, he goes on LTIR and his cap hit is moot anyway. We don't need the cap space now to fit in Boeser and likely Goldobin as well on a 23 man roster assuming he earns a spot. A healthy Sutter will be a major asset that I would rather gamble on than hoping that maybe Goldobin figures it out. We have some decent wingers coming up in the system that should mitigate any loss of Goldobin anyway. Some think Gaudette can step into the 3rd line center role, but his sheltered time last season with 40% on draws (Sutter took more draws than him in half the games) and the point production of an injured Sutter would indicate he's not ready barring an incredible offseason in development. EP can play center, but he's not the strongest on draws either, which makes Sutter that much more important in winning possession.

 

Ferland, Miller and Pearson have their own skill sets. Goldobin has the creativity that they do not have. So those aforementioned are good at puck retrieval and going to the hard areas, but you also need players that can finish in the space they open up and the players that can find them in stride. This is something that Goldobin is capable of (to what extent, not sure yet), but it needs to be balanced with the attributes that we lacked before and have added recently.

[mikeyman109]

the only curious thing about Goldobin is who will drive him to the airport.

[Topcheeze86]

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

[RonMexico]

8 minutes ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

 

So easy to blame the coach or the system or whatever...but never the player. This the top level of hockey in the world. Not everyone is going to make it. While he may have all the skills and talent in the world, if he can't apply it, then he's just another player who can't cut the mustard at the pro level. Coming to Vancouver was his change of scenery from SJ. This training camp is pretty much his last kick at the can to be a somebody. It's all up to him to decide.

[Pickly]

10 minutes ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

Ferland and Miller are 20 goal, versatile, top 6 wingers who can play at both ends of the ice. Goldobin is a one trick pony who I think Green has handled just fine. He’s a turnover machine who can’t play defence and despite having some offensive talent he isn’t the kind of player you win playoff games with. The Blues didn’t have a stacked top 6 either and made out just fine this past season. 

[aliboy]

17 minutes ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

He stopped playing him with EP40 because he didn't want him getting easy points, which also affected EP40's production. Nothing worse for a young developing player then to be benched every time he makes a mistake, especially when it's on a team that's supposed to be developing young players. No question he has to elevate his game up a level, I do believe he can do so and quite easily. Problem is, I don't think Green is going to give him a chance.

[Topcheeze86]

2 hours ago, aliboy said:

He stopped playing him with EP40 because he didn't want him getting easy points, which also affected EP40's production. Nothing worse for a young developing player then to be benched every time he makes a mistake, especially when it's on a team that's supposed to be developing young players. No question he has to elevate his game up a level, I do believe he can do so and quite easily. Problem is, I don't think Green is going to give him a chance.

Easy points or not still is points green wants grinders throughout his lineup is what i can see not all offensively gifted artists can go be grinders 

[higgyfan]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:36 AM, Topcheeze86 said:

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

Miller easily has top 6 #s and is a top notch playmaking winger.  He would enhance Pete's line greatly, with his aggressive puck retrieving, great passing, terrific defensive skills and a strong physical presence in the dirty areas.  Imo, unless there is no chemistry with Pete/Brock, Miller is the favourite as their W.

 

Miller would be a great 3C and with his playmaking skills (along with terrific defensive game) he would be better than Sutter.  Seeing as Sutter is the best option for that role (other than Miller), he will likely continue to play there.  The Canucks have a greater need to improve the top 6 so that they can put up ++++pts and Miller is the best candidate.

 

NG just doesn't have the complete package that Miller has.

Edited August 14, 2019 by higgyfan

[RWMc1]

Goldy still needs to get the courage to work the walls to battle for puck possession. He needs to get to the net front for rebounds and screens. He also has to work on his defensive positioning and engagement in our zone. These things are part of our system and if he ignores them he will not get the ice-time. He was gifted ice time based on his skill level. At some point he has to do what the coach expects of him or he will not get said ice time. It was never about one mistake and getting benched. It's all on him now as to whether he sticks or not.

[The_Rocket]

I think the main hold up on a new contract for Goldobin is Benning wants to know what Boeser’s cap hit will be. After eriksson, schaller, and a third player (biega would be my guess) are all waived, the Canucks will have about 8 million in cap space and 2 roster spots. If boeser signs for 7 mill or less, then Benning know he can sign goldy without making any additional moves (i’m Assuming goldobin will get 1 year x 1 million, then cash in for a bigger payday next season when he has arb rights). However, if boeser costs MORE than 7 million, then Benning has to decide if he either moves on from goldobin or trade a different player to make up the cap space for re-signing him.  

 

IMO once boeser signs, we will be getting goldobin news very shortly after

 

[Schmautzie]

2 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

Goldy still needs to get the courage to work the walls to battle for puck possession. He needs to get to the net front for rebounds and screens. He also has to work on his defensive positioning and engagement in our zone. These things are part of our system and if he ignores them he will not get the ice-time. He was gifted ice time based on his skill level. At some point he has to do what the coach expects of him or he will not get said ice time. It was never about one mistake and getting benched. It's all on him now as to whether he sticks or not.

I wonder if playing Ferland on his line would give Goldobin that courage. 

 

Try Ferland - Pettersson - Goldobin in the preseason and see how it works out.

[RWMc1]

34 minutes ago, Schmautzie said:

I wonder if playing Ferland on his line would give Goldobin that courage. 

 

Try Ferland - Pettersson - Goldobin in the preseason and see how it works out.

It shouldn't matter who his line mates are. He needs to be willing to be engaged in physical play. I saw him try to block a shot late last season. It was awkward and I feared for his safety on that play but it was a good sign. It told me that he was willing to engage in ways that are potentially painful. It showed his desire to do the things that the coach wanted. If he continues in that manner, he could take a real step this season. I think he's big enough to take hits to make plays and battle along the boards etc. He definitely has skill; he just needs to round out his game.

[King Heffy]

11 hours ago, Topcheeze86 said:

Green terribly mishandled goldy ...drove his confidence in the ground petey and goldy had immediate chemistry based on there offensive vision and playmaking but again greens mishandling of guys confidence is alarming for me going forward 

 

and ya it appears our first 2 lines look solid but ferland and miller arent exactly offensively gifted forwards so it will be interesting to see what happens maybe there is a chance miller centers the 3rd line if we end up dumping sutter and leaving gaudette for seasoning in the AHL

Green kept feeding Goldobin top 6 minutes and he didn't produce.  He also was pretty clear that he wanted a better effort away from the puck and Goldy didn't even deliver that.  At some point Goldobin will get a wakeup call and it's up to him how he handles it.

[filthycanuck]

On 8/6/2019 at 5:52 AM, IBatch said:

Goldy slowed down when EP came back from injuries and didn’t do much when he wasn’t around.  Think EP coming down to earth had more to do with getting mauled twice and after losing some swagger then NGs sudden “break-out”.   Agree that he still has a chance of playing in the NHL but at this point it’s doubtful it’s here, JB shopped like crazy and you can bet he would have traded NG if he could, nobody wanted our players.   Maybe he wants to keep him around for one last kick at the can and move Pearson and one other player down to fit both Bear and NG in the top six.  Really NG is like our 12th plus guy so why would he do that?  Think JB was just doing him a favour (NG), and that he’s got enough potential for another team to pick him up on waivers.   

 

If EP is good enough to make NG a PPGer for a couple of months, what can he do with Ferland or Miller on his wing?    

 

NO WAY TG puts him back there.  That’s leaves the second line.   Think Bear or Pearson get the L wing spot, and it’s possible that both of them are on the second line and one plays their off wing (Bear).  And that whomever isn’t on the top line of Miller/Ferland is also ahead of NG on the depth chart.  

 

That pushes NG down to the third line...which would only work if it was a scoring line - nothing he has done shows that he can chase guys to the dirty areas and get pucks back which with Sutter as a Center is exactly what the third line will continue to do - 30-35% ozone starts ... JVs got the right side pinned, and LE is still a much better option then NG even if it’s supposed to be an offensive third line.  

 

That leaves the fourth line.  Ok maybe he can play there with Beagle and Motte.  But where does Leivo and someone else I’ve probably missed go?  Schaller is going to Utica.   And so is NG unless we have some pre-season injuries, and someone else will probably give him a shot in their top six, maybe EDM. 

Whos to say that maybe Goldobin had something to do with Petterrsons success on the PP? Its fact that EP40 had large scoring slumps when Leivo was in the PP.  EP40 was still scoring at a torrid pace with Goldobin by his side after the Matheson hit. Im not saying Goldobin is the reason why EP40 had a great scoring output the first half of the sseason, but you have to give the kid credit for at least contributing to it. I think everybodys seen enough Canucks games that you can't just assume this player, that player (Ferland and Miller) playing on Petterssons wing is all of a sudden going to lead to success. Remember Ericsson playing with the Sedins?  They were supposed to be great weren't they?

 

That being said, Goldobin is going to need a great camp to make it in the roster, Im not saying he's going to be a 1st liner right away. Im just stating the fact we shouldn't give up on him just yet. If EP40 is going, the team is going