-DLC- Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 21 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said: It is simply too soon for this team to carry the load, the good teams can relax and play, this team has to play with a frantic desperation still, they have to learn to "expect to win" yet. There are just too many older vets that know they are on retirement contracts or maybe have one more deal left if they can be very good supporting cast players. I don't think this is the case AT ALL. Teams have to play hard, even against bottom feeders at times. Especially if they're coming from behind and trying to tie it up. I don't think you understand that most of these guys play for the love of the game as well as the $$. You don't just switch that off...once they step on the ice, most have the competitive juices flowing and are fully engaged. And that's what they were supposed to be....supporting cast to help transition the young guys in and add a bit of grit and experience to the line up. It's too generalized (and unfair) to lump vets all together - who, specifically, are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItTakesAnArmy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: On 11/11/2019 at 5:10 PM, ItTakesAnArmy said: It is simply too soon for this team to carry the load, the good teams can relax and play, this team has to play with a frantic desperation still, they have to learn to "expect to win" yet. There are just too many older vets that know they are on retirement contracts or maybe have one more deal left if they can be very good supporting cast players. I don't think this is the case AT ALL. Teams have to play hard, even against bottom feeders at times. Especially if they're coming from behind and trying to tie it up. I don't think you understand that most of these guys play for the love of the game as well as the $$. You don't just switch that off...once they step on the ice, most have the competitive juices flowing and are fully engaged. And that's what they were supposed to be....supporting cast to help transition the young guys in and add a bit of grit and experience to the line up. It's too generalized (and unfair) to lump vets all together - who, specifically, are you talking about? The old NJD taught the NHL that a system can defeat skill. Even though the old Canadiens also played a trap game the had many highly skilled players, NJD made up for a lack of skill with the system. Vancouver has had the benefit of many players giving 110% because so many were AHL players trying to stick in the NHL, so for the most part coaching was easier in that motivation was already present. I fully understand the concept of love of the game, they can't make here if they didn't love the game, but to some players there is a difference between playing for money or playing for pride. But learning to temper that overwhelming desire is called being professional, learning that pay days are from playing daily and that even in losing if they put out an effort they are rewarded with a paycheck, it is the same win, lose or draw so get over losing, it is the same as winning financially, be "professional". I talked about the support players, they do usually make the difference in the playoffs because they sell their bodies to the game while the skilled guys have to fight through to exercise that skill, Claude Lemieux, a grinder that was a heck of a playoff performer or Kris Draper and Ferland, all had a playoff that they were almost single handedly won a series. The supporting cast I refer to is as a team structure, not just support for 3 young players. This group has a superior bottom six, a group that looks as if they would be successful in the playoffs. This may help the team not get into the "Edmonton/Calgary/Buffalo" rut were so much losing became part of the culture. Losing has become part of the Canuck culture now, many will refute that but if not where is the evidence of winning? A single game? A close loss? Evidence of a losing culture is when the elusive "prospect" that is always almost there is touted as next years backbone or improvement, the selling of hope if you like. Benning still has his job not because he has a winning group or that he has done exceptional work but because seats have been sold. Regardless of his extension his job is now on the line, the media is not giving away a free ride any longer and he may be desperate to make the playoffs at any cost,, he has already dealt away a big part of the future, a first, a third and 7th round picks over the next two drafts, if losing will he deal more? I don't think JV is a bust, just not worthy of his drafted position and where he was drafted is not his fault, that is all on the scouting guru. That said Benning's first draft hae had the the Boston scouting reports added to the Canucks and Boston has a superior scouting department so that first draft had more NHL players than the combined next 4 drafts. Same with OJ, not his fault, just bad judgement. JV and OJ, the evaluation of how good the evaluation is measured by their peers in those draft classes as such they could be considered blown PICKS, not bad players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Bunch of panicky Pollyanna's... Edited November 12, 2019 by aGENT 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I think its all simpler than some think as far as dump n chase. I assume that the preferred way to enter the zone, and the one they usually want to implement, is to carry the puck in. And only if it looks like the blue line is a wall they dump it in. No choice there. The only time they may choose dump n chase as the primary method is if they really believe they are that much faster. Maybe they know the other team has on their 5 and 6 d on for that play. But I just would assume that having the control of the puck on a stick going into the zone is the primary goal each time. And the drop pass, hate it as much as you want, is like a second chance to carry the puck in, instead of just dumping it in. With a player moving at full speed coming from behind is dropped the puck, he can take it and scope out the line for the easiest access point, and moving at good speed, he has a good chance of carrying it in, Does it always work like that? No. If the attacking player still can't see a lane into the zone they will still dump it in. But they will also be moving fast with that method and could get to the puck first. I just think it is all mostly circumstantial. As well, some opponents will stack the line more, some will not. On top of that, within a game each rush is completely different. But I contend that 99% of the time a team's first option is always to carry the puck in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Greener is a great up and coming coach. Just imagine if Willie D was still here. This is what our line combos would look like... Schaller Pettersson Erikkson Boeser Horvat Motte Pearson Miller Sutter Beagle Gaudette Virtanen Tanev Edler Myers Fantenberg Benn Stecher Hughes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Fire them all. This seasons been a joke. Only like top 10 in most categories. Too much talent here being wasted. Should be in first spot right now. 25% PP not good enough. We need to be 30% obviously Fire Benning too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 LE is taking away Big Mac's development time. Big Mac would be great at 8-10 minutes a game. Bashing bodies and eating up crease space. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: LE is taking away Big Mac's development time. Big Mac would be great at 8-10 minutes a game. Bashing bodies and eating up crease space. Wish, . And you shall receive perhaps? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 23 hours ago, kilgore said: I think its all simpler than some think as far as dump n chase. I assume that the preferred way to enter the zone, and the one they usually want to implement, is to carry the puck in. And only if it looks like the blue line is a wall they dump it in. No choice there. The only time they may choose dump n chase as the primary method is if they really believe they are that much faster. Maybe they know the other team has on their 5 and 6 d on for that play. But I just would assume that having the control of the puck on a stick going into the zone is the primary goal each time. And the drop pass, hate it as much as you want, is like a second chance to carry the puck in, instead of just dumping it in. With a player moving at full speed coming from behind is dropped the puck, he can take it and scope out the line for the easiest access point, and moving at good speed, he has a good chance of carrying it in, Does it always work like that? No. If the attacking player still can't see a lane into the zone they will still dump it in. But they will also be moving fast with that method and could get to the puck first. I just think it is all mostly circumstantial. As well, some opponents will stack the line more, some will not. On top of that, within a game each rush is completely different. But I contend that 99% of the time a team's first option is always to carry the puck in. Benning this summer: "The way (coach) Travis (Green) wants to play, he wants to play fast and he wants to get pucks behind the other team’s defencemen and get in on the forecheck, recover pucks and get to the net." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Man Big Mac instead of LE? Maybe Graovac too. Big Mac on Peties line. Anyone knocks Petie down gets knocked down. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Face Doom Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 hours ago, captainhorvat said: Greener is a great up and coming coach. Just imagine if Willie D was still here. This is what our line combos would look like... Schaller Pettersson Erikkson Boeser Horvat Motte Pearson Miller Sutter Beagle Gaudette Virtanen Tanev Edler Myers Fantenberg Benn Stecher Hughes If willie was coaching. Petey wouldn't make the lineup. Boeser would be a scrub and Hughes would be in Utica. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) everyone keeps blaming coaching it really is one of the trainers mainly who is responsible for skate sharpening his quality falls off as the game goes on due to fatigue and so by the end of the 3rd period and ot the edges are just $&!# this is evidenced by recent success of the team come on ... this theory is just as good as all the other ones being put out there based entirely on fan speculation Edited November 13, 2019 by coastal.view 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3rd in division and 3 points out of first with a game in hand on 1st. Positive goal differential. winning record at home. .500 on the road. What's not to like so far? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 36 minutes ago, RonMexico said: 3rd in division and 3 points out of first with a game in hand on 1st. Positive goal differential. winning record at home. .500 on the road. What's not to like so far? Its the coaching.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 In spite of coaching... another win against a tough opponent. Maybe we can blame the janitor next... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, mll said: Benning this summer: "The way (coach) Travis (Green) wants to play, he wants to play fast and he wants to get pucks behind the other team’s defencemen and get in on the forecheck, recover pucks and get to the net." Okay. I don't know how much of that is just a hockey coach answer. But I'm sure on a rush and the seas part and there's a way to carry the puck in, a player will, or should, do that. A 100 % chance of having possession in the O zone is better than a 50% chance of getting it back. I find it hard to believe Green would demand that as a hard rule especially on the PP. I think teams in general usually dump it in because they have no choice. Clogging up the neutral zone etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 10:05 AM, ItTakesAnArmy said: he has already dealt away a big part of the future, a first, a third and 7th round picks over the next two drafts I think you are putting way too much emphasis on draft picks. They're a crap shoot. Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Trading a pick away for a proven player like JT Miller is NOT a bad move when you have a skilled core that just needs a few more pieces. The time to sell the farm and push for a deep playoff run is now while our superstars are young, JB recognizes this. Here are some examples of players that went first overall who never amounted to anything. Most notable is the guy who was drafted in 1999 in front of the Sedins. He ended his career with 64 total goals. A high draft pick doesn't guarantee success! https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/top-10-biggest-busts-in-nhl-draft-history/ On the flip side look at some guys who were late drafts, Nikita Kucherov (58th), or Henrik Zetterberg (210th!). It's a total crapshoot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, kilgore said: Okay. I don't know how much of that is just a hockey coach answer. But I'm sure on a rush and the seas part and there's a way to carry the puck in, a player will, or should, do that. A 100 % chance of having possession in the O zone is better than a 50% chance of getting it back. I find it hard to believe Green would demand that as a hard rule especially on the PP. I think teams in general usually dump it in because they have no choice. Clogging up the neutral zone etc. I dunno man. It seems like every player interview between periods goes something like this; Interviewer: "How are you going to have success in the rest of the game?" Player: "We're going to stick to our game plan. Get pucks in deep and go in hard on the forecheck." Given the fact that the coaches, players, and GM continually say this is their game plan, I'm pretty sure it's their game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Devron44 said: Fire them all. This seasons been a joke. Only like top 10 in most categories. Too much talent here being wasted. Should be in first spot right now. 25% PP not good enough. We need to be 30% obviously Fire Benning too Make all the jokes you want but this team is having success this year despite the abysmal coaching staff, not because of it. This is the most skilled group we've had in a very long time and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit quietly and watch Green and his band of buffoons squander it. p.s. JB is fine. The LE signing was a huge blunder but he has more than made up for it since with draft picks and trades. p.p.s. They should do a mic'd up episode with Newell Brown. I can just imagine him rallying the troops as they head out to start the power play; "Now remember guys, stay as still as possible out there. Don't waste your energy like skating or anything. And just keep passing it around, whatever you do don't shoot until you've passed it around so much that the other team has grown bored and stopped paying attention, then let 'er fly!" After the players roll their eyes and make their way out on the ice NB can be heard shouting "and don't forget THE DROP PASS!!!" Edited November 14, 2019 by CptCanuck16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, CptCanuck16 said: Make all the jokes you want but this team is having success this year despite the abysmal coaching staff, not because of it. This is the most skilled group we've had in a very long time and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit quietly and watch Green and his band of buffoons squander it. p.s. JB is fine. The LE signing was a huge blunder but he has more than made up for it since with draft picks and trades. p.p.s. They should do a mic'd up episode with Newell Brown. I can just imagine him rallying the troops as they head out to start the power play; "Now remember guys, stay as still as possible out there. Don't waste your energy like skating or anything. And just keep passing it around, whatever you do don't shoot until you've passed it around so much that the other team has grown bored and stopped paying attention, then let 'er fly!" After the players roll their eyes and make their way out on the ice NB can be heard shouting "and don't forget THE DROP PASS!!!" This teams PP is quarterbacked by a 20 year old and our best player is in his second year. Lay of the expectations man. I’m very excited for this team and there are so many bright spots but this is an absolute joke to think we’ve arrived as some sort of contender (thats what it feels like your saying) Its the first year I’ve actually said ok we are starting to come out of a rebuild and trajectory up this standing and possibly make the playoffs. Basically your telling me we’ve had success magically Garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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