Make Canada What again?

[Warhippy]

Ok full disclosure, this is something that's been going on for a few days and I'll give the back story because I've been wondering about it

 

I was added on Facebook to a group/page titled Make Canada Great Again.  Now I actually wondered, wtf is wrong with Canada exactly?  Why isn't Canada great now?

 

So I asked.  Very simply.  If Canada isn't great now, what is wrong with it.

 

Admittedly the management end of things has been off for about 20 years or so.  We haven't had a decent management group since the 90s that could make things work and pay down the debt or avoid rampant overspending.  Taxes are high, housing costs are insane.  There's an identity crisis about who is/is not wanting to remain in the nation and the left vs right debate is only getting worse.

 

Now, asking a social media group about anything like this is not the best idea and I had an idea where this would head but I was kind of overwhelmed and honestly saddened by the responses.In order of importance to over 300+ responses and counting

• Immigrants
• Refugees
• Trudeau
• Religion
• The left/Liberal people
• Taxes
• Veterans
• Homelessness and housing costs

 

When I say I was overwhelmed I mean it.  Almost every other post dealt with race.  Full stop, yes almost every other post.  The largest bulk afterwards came against Trudeau and effectively over 60% of the population of the nation that voted left, lean left or happen to have voted Liberally.

 

Ok so it's a one off right?  Sadly no.  I perused 11 separate pages or groups with eh phrase or title of make/making Canada great/again.  Almost universally every post was about refugees, immigration, the left/liberal people and Trudeau.  How the hell I asked myself, can a nation built by and for immigrants and refugees all of a sudden not be great because we're still accepting immigrants and refugees?  How sad is that of a reason to claim Canada isn't great?  Or that people who didn't vote your way are somehow the issue, effectively blaming 2/3rds of the nation because they don't vote your way for believing the nation isn't great

 

So I wanted to ask here.  I've lived and worked all over Canada.  I think it's the greatest nation on the planet myself.  No bias, I really do.  it's got something for everyone and it's so large that if your area of the nation doesn't feel great, there's millions of square kilometres to find a part that is.

 

So in your eyes.  if canada isn't great now, wtf is wrong with it?

 

Gratuitous flag waving emoji

Edited February 7, 2020 by Warhippy

[Canada Hockey Place]

[Shirotashi]

I cant believe people think immigration and refugees are a problem. So much misinformation. We NEED 

immigration in this country badly. 

 

The problem with this country and might as well lump the USA in this is lack of bi partisanship in our

media and our government. Its like your either Liberal or a Nazi.

[Warhippy]

Just now, Canada Hockey Place said:

OK hands down he most acceptable and worthwhile answer to that question.

 

Having this bad boy brought home would make this nation feel pretty damned great again unless it was Toronto who won it, screw those guys it's practically an American city anyway

[Warhippy]

Just now, Shirotashi said:

I cant believe people think immigration and refugees are a problem. So much misinformation. We NEED 

immigration in this country badly. 

 

The problem with this country and might as well lump the USA in this is lack of bi partisanship in our

media and our government. Its like your either Liberal or a Nazi.

I mean you're not wrong.

 

But in all seriousness.  Search any facebook page or group with the make canada great again statements.  Almost every post, every comment is overwhelmingly race related or blaming the entire nations issues on 2/3rds of the rest of the nation based on their political leanings.  Issues that existed 5-10-15-30 years ago are all of a sudden blamed on whatever they feel is the flavour of the day, that flavour is remarkably consistent though.

 

Not many people, when I asked that simple question could answer it without bringing up religion, immigrants or "trudeau" and that's pretty telling when hey consider that one of those 3 issues makes this nation not great

[-SN-]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I mean you're not wrong.

 

But in all seriousness.  Search any facebook page or group with the make canada great again statements.  Almost every post, every comment is overwhelmingly race related or blaming the entire nations issues on 2/3rds of the rest of the nation based on their political leanings.  Issues that existed 5-10-15-30 years ago are all of a sudden blamed on whatever they feel is the flavour of the day, that flavour is remarkably consistent though.

 

Not many people, when I asked that simple question could answer it without bringing up religion, immigrants or "trudeau" and that's pretty telling when hey consider that one of those 3 issues makes this nation not great

These people were always there and are generally a minority, but they have a loud voice now due to:

• Trumpism and the unfortunate normalization of racism, sexism, etc.
• The amplification effect of social media.
• The unwillingness of social media companies to moderate the above.
• Divisive manipulation via mass media (e.g. Murdoch) and social media (e.g. divisive Russian disinformation campaigns).

 

Previously we had a happy medium where people could be as bigoted as they want, as long as they kept it on the down-low. Now they can not only share but transmit their BS in gigantic supportive echo chambers. 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, StealthNuck said:

These people were always there and are generally a minority, but they have a loud voice now due to:

• Trumpism and the unfortunate normalization of racism, sexism, etc.
• The amplification effect of social media.
• The unwillingness of social media companies to moderate the above.
• Divisive manipulation via mass media (e.g. Murdoch) and social media (e.g. divisive Russian disinformation campaigns).

 

Previously we had a happy medium where people could be as bigoted as they want, as long as they kept it on the down-low. Now they can not only share but transmit their BS in gigantic supportive echo chambers. 

Do you think or feel as though the rise of and advent of social media platforms has effectively perpetuated and help create the division we're seeing now?  I can't think of much else outside of media manipulation which is not only prominent but prevalent.  But no media outlet is outright telling people that immigrants are bad or the like.

 

Having looked over 300+ responses, and then perused reddit, 4chan, facebook for groups of the same name it's overwhelmingly the same statements.  

 

I find that incredibly sad to be honest.  What happened to disliking people based on their actions like a normal human being, or because they were leafs fans?

[Chicken.]

3 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

I cant believe people think immigration and refugees are a problem. So much misinformation. We NEED 

immigration in this country badly. 

 

The problem with this country and might as well lump the USA in this is lack of bi partisanship in our

media and our government. Its like your either Liberal or a Nazi.

Immigration is great when they are able and willing to assimilate into Canadian culture. We are a nation of immigrants that still has a national identity to uphold which is increasingly difficult when people cling to their homeland and lack appreciation for their new country’s values. Many are great, a majority I’m sure, but a few bad apples always leave the lasting impression that skews the new Immigrant perception for some. Combine that with rising cost of living and tough job prospects people look for a scapegoat to blame.
I don't fully agree with the sentiment but understand the train of thought, it doesn't help with our government being increasingly divisive with identity politics.

Alas I still find Canada pretty great despite its faults, even though I am bias and fortunate in some circumstances, I see how some have developed a bitterness towards newcomers after slipping through the cracks and struggling to achieve what they want to. Sad.

 

[skolozsy2]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

OK hands down he most acceptable and worthwhile answer to that question.

 

Having this bad boy brought home would make this nation feel pretty damned great again unless it was Toronto who won it, screw those guys it's practically an American city anyway

Doesn't the Cup spend most of it's time at its "home" in the hockey hall of fame every year?  Is anywhere in Canada its home, because the Canadians on the winning team bring the Cup "home" after each season when it's their day with the Cup?  Or by "home", are you referring to Sheffield, England where the Cup was actually built?  So many homes and only Cup to go around. 

 

(Btw, just screwing with you)

[smokes]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To the lucky people Canada is the best nation in the world, but that depends on what your life is like. While I love being Canadian and think Canada is a wonderful country, living in Canada especially in the big city sucks. I lot of people I know go to work so they can get a paycheck, see almost 40% of their paycheck go directly to the government on payday. (The government always gets paid first.) Then the rest of their paycheck goes to rent and to pay off their credit cards just so they can keep using their credit cards next month. It's just a grind. This generation has it even worse. Work in the city live in the suburb, hours of travel time just to save money on rent, pay off student loans while living in a pretty expensive city. On health issues, if you need to go to the ER, you often need to wait 8-9 hours before seeing a doctor. Growing up in Canada and seeing the way it is now, I honestly believe the 70-80's generation of adults had it easier than the pressures people face now.

[JC2]

I personally hate the whole what country is the greatest debate because in the end there is no greatest, all nation's no matter how big and small have their strengths and weaknesses. 

 

    If I could think of one single thing that would improve Canada it would be to start actually putting the people first. Instead of fighting over what it costs why can't the government realize how it can improve the lives of the people. I'm talking about things like a national daycare plan and better medical, more public transportation, affordable housing for all. Nothing ever happens because it always come down to if it's profitable enough. All they ever do is raise taxes to maintain stays quo but I'd bet most people would be ok paying more taxes if they were actually used to improve upon our lives.

[BowtieCanuck]

Immigration has been a part of Canadian culture since Canada has existed and people have forgotten this. Not only that, but immigration is necessary in order for economic growth of any kind to continue. Hell, the birthrate in Canada would be in the negative if there wasn't any immigration.

The problem is people have forgotten and ignored the fact that much of Canadian culture and lifestyle is actually built on what people from other places have brought to Canada and made a piece of Canadian identity.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by BowtieCanuck

[You Mad Bro?]

[inane]

Loud minority does not mean anything. There are always going to be racist douchebags, that doesn’t mean it’s some kind of movement or majority. 
 

also, get off Facebook lol
 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by inane

[RUPERTKBD]

Certainly we have issues (although immigrants/refugees are not one of them) but this already is a pretty great country.

 

People whinging about their lot in life in a first world country should really open their eyes to what people deal with on an every day basis in San Salvador, Kinshasa and Aleppo....

 

I've said this before, in several threads: In my almost 60 years in Canada, there have been a few times when I felt like I was one of those who "fell through the cracks", but when I stepped back and really looked at the situation, I wasn't in the position I was in through anything that a Premier or Prime Minister had, or hadn't done. It was because of something I had, or hadn't done and it was up to me to figure out how to improve my lot in life.

 

The tools are there for people to use, but you have to take the steps. Sadly, it seems that some folks would rather just complain.

[Hey Guys!!]

I’ve worked and lived all over the world and I can tell you with great Shame and certainty that Canadians are actually some of the most whiny, jaded, entitled, offended and frankly rude people on the planet. We have an arrogance, a chip on our shoulder. We think we are better than the US and constantly criticize things about them like Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders when in reality nobody cares what Canada thinks and it’s really actually none of our business. The US doesn’t have a problem with us, they laugh at us, we are that angry nerd in high school that nobody even realizes is angry. Canadians think it’s hip to trust the government with their tax dollars. They think money will make it colder outside. They cry about pipelines, cry about people crying about pipelines. The country is becoming more and more “progressive” while concurrently becoming either homeless or in insurmountable debt. We have been taxed relentlessly for generations and have some of the most embarrassing infrastructure in the developed world. 
I actually choose to work out of country cause I hate being around Canadians in the workplace. There is no respect for chain of command. This board is a perfect micro example of a Canadian workplace. CDC is Notoriously known for supporting a certain narrative. Anyone walks out of line gets pecked at like a chick with a crooked beak until they get themselves banned for trying to beat them off. 
Canada is a beautiful country filled with miserable people. 

[-DLC-]

7 minutes ago, Hey Guys!! said:

I’ve worked and lived all over the world and I can tell you with great Shame and certainty that Canadians are actually some of the most whiny, jaded, entitled, offended and frankly rude people on the planet. We have an arrogance, a chip on our shoulder. We think we are better than the US and constantly criticize things about them like Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders when in reality nobody cares what Canada thinks and it’s really actually none of our business. The US doesn’t have a problem with us, they laugh at us, we are that angry nerd in high school that nobody even realizes is angry. Canadians think it’s hip to trust the government with their tax dollars. They think money will make it colder outside. They cry about pipelines, cry about people crying about pipelines. The country is becoming more and more “progressive” while concurrently becoming either homeless or in insurmountable debt. We have been taxed relentlessly for generations and have some of the most embarrassing infrastructure in the developed world. 
I actually choose to work out of country cause I hate being around Canadians in the workplace. There is no respect for chain of command. This board is a perfect micro example of a Canadian workplace. CDC is Notoriously known for supporting a certain narrative. Anyone walks out of line gets pecked at like a chick with a crooked beak until they get themselves banned for trying to beat them off. 
Canada is a beautiful country filled with miserable people. 

This is stereotyping and it's the basis of bigotry, racism, and everything wrong with Canada/the world.  You say "we" but go on to exclude yourself.

 

Sometimes what we're seeing/getting is a reflection of what we're giving.  This post hints of that to me.

 

I believe Canada, as many other countries, is falling victim to leaders who use their power for agendas that aren't necessarily in the best interest of "the people"...but are for "the rich people".

 

Other than that, this country's great.  And the people are all different....you get whiny, jaded, entitled and the flipside, in some very caring, selfless individuals.  Like any other place.

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

I think you need to look at who would be both creating and attracted to a site that parrots Trump. Ford Nation, alt-right, #wexit.... its the same gang. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

 

• Immigrants
• Refugees
• Trudeau
• Religion
• The left/Liberal people
• Taxes
• Veterans
• Homelessness and housing costs

And then the "list". You and i have both posted the research, and people can easily look it up, immigrants and refugees make money for the host country. Thats why the most recent government panel is recommending an increase between 350,000 to 500,000 more people per year of people from both groups.

 

Trudeau - well thats just sour grapes and poor leadership choices by other parties. 

 

Religion - go practice it, on yourself and your family. No problems there either.

 

Ah the "left" - there's a particular poster that says the Canada of his birth has been irreparably harmed by the left, but when I ask him how or exactly what rights he's lost I get radio silence, or some silly hyperbolic story about something that "could" happen. 

 

There's a group of people out there that believe other people obtaining rights somehow takes away theirs. Its a perverted view of the Charter and is just wrong.

 

Taxes - well, show me the evidence for a better system, I'm all ears.

 

Veterans - a favourite topic of people that want to drape themselves in the flag to bolster their argument. Sad fact is, every gov't since in 1990s has let these folks down.

 

Homelessness - let me guess, they weren't advocating for more affordable housing? 

 

[Hey Guys!!]

18 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

This is stereotyping and it's the basis of bigotry, racism, and everything wrong with Canada/the world.  You say "we" but go on to exclude yourself.

 

Sometimes what we're seeing/getting is a reflection of what we're giving.  This post hints of that to me.

 

I believe Canada, as many other countries, is falling victim to leaders who use their power for agendas that aren't necessarily in the best interest of "the people"...but are for "the rich people".

 

Other than that, this country's great.  And the people are all different....you get whiny, jaded, entitled and the flipside, in some very caring, selfless individuals.  Like any other place.

 

 

 

 

You can’t see it until you live somewhere else then return. You don’t even really notice it while you’re gone either. It’s when you come back you realize how grumpy Canadians are. I am Canadian. I’m not separating myself at all. Look at this rant, it’s so Canadian. I use to have a huge chip on my shoulder about the US. I use to think they were the arrogant ones, but that’s not the case at all. Canada has no flavour, no identity, no history. It’s like we are lost in the world. When someone asks where you are from and you say Canada. They will usually say Eh!! Or sorry eh? Houuuse. And laugh. We are a joke. JT didn’t help that image either. He is actually 100% exactly what the world thinks a Canadian is. Softly stuttering while trying to find the least offensive thing to say. 

[Shift-4]

I want the hats to be blue though