[Report] Canucks to part ways with Judd Bracket

[lmm]

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Only in Vancouver would this be news. Dried up rabbit droppings like Burke were salivating waiting time comment on this. 
 

He’s a &^@#ing scout. Not a first line center. Not a coach. Not a star goalie. A scout. 

Practice, We talking about practice?

 

What I find funny is that there is a group on herre that seem to spend a lot of time talking smack about the media.

They also seem to spend a lot of time seeking out the same said media to give them somethihng to talk about.

They HATE the media, but cannot stop clicking.

 

They when you try to make a point about anything, they claim you are parroting the media that they hate.

 

I don't read JD Burke, in fact I read one of his posts last week just to get a taste of what aGENT and and Sam were on about.

Sounds self agrandizing, I don't think I need more.

Honestly, I'd rather listen to Brian Burke than JD.

 

This is where it gets funny, "JD Burke is a moron. Jim is a great GM because he signed Myers for less than JD Burke thought"

"My grandmother can't skate. Jake Virtanen was a great pick because he skates better than my grandmother"

If you don't like JD Burke don't read his stuff, I don't.

If you want to argue the merits if Jim Benning or Judd Brackett, compare them to other GMs or scouts.

 

If you want to talk about JD Burke, start a thread about him. You and aGENT and Sam can have a great time talking about what a fool he is.

To me, JD Burke is like a fly. A parasite? yes. Interesting? no. Worth hating? no. Influential? not to me.

 

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

CanucksAbbyFan2 (@Fan2Abby) Tweeted:
#Canucks Reminder: 

Ted Hampson and Ryan Johnson pushed hardest to select Brock Boeser.  

Ron Delorme was the first to push hard for Elias Pettersson.  

John Weisbrod is friends with Jim Hughes and he literally scouted Quinn Hughes since his birth. https://t.co/G3iy0lCiT6

 

Quick, we need a side by side shot of Quinn with John and Jim to see who he looks more like. Either that or its a weird image of Weisbrod grinning while little Quinn is coming into the world.

[theo5789]

51 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Scouts = future of the franchise

 

Fiirst line centres = trade acquisition 

 

Where would this team be without Petttersson, Hughes, Boeser and maybe Podkolzin, all draft picks selected  by the scouts

 

and all upgrades on Vertanin, McCann and Juolevi

Didn't the scouts pick out these guys too? Don't scouts also pick guys like Patrick White, Jason Herter, Stojanov, etc?

 

Perhaps the system set out for the scouting staff to allow for better assessment and discussion during meeting allows for the scouts to be more successful at their jobs. Doesn't this sound more in line with what has been done now (certainly Brackett believes so as he has said this himself).

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, theo5789 said:

Benning offered him a contract to stay. Brackett had stipulations on signing that required more or total autonomy. How did Benning time this?

 

Why can it not be perceived that Benning saw some holes in the scouting department (as a former scout and director himself) and thus why he wants to get involved more with his experience?

Conversely how can it not be perceived that Brackett sees error/holes and either wishes to eliminate them or not want part of it. It would sully his good name. Benning knew Brackets contract was coming to and end and traded away this years first round pick. Miller is a good acquisition for sure but Vcr is not ready for a good Cup run, heck they're only just scraping in as it is never mind win the whole thing. Vcr will take a run at the Cup when EP & QH have matured and upped their game, I'm confident of that and I'm sure Benning is too. Personally I'd have preferred to keep the draft pick simply because the team is not ready, it will be, but not yet. IMO

[Fred65]

33 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Didn't the scouts pick out these guys too? Don't scouts also pick guys like Patrick White, Jason Herter, Stojanov, etc?

 

Perhaps the system set out for the scouting staff to allow for better assessment and discussion during meeting allows for the scouts to be more successful at their jobs. Doesn't this sound more in line with what has been done now (certainly Brackett believes so as he has said this himself).

Not the current scouts. Different time different era. It's like suggesting the Leafs won the cup in the last century will some how make it better for the current team  sad to say there are fans that believe that

[theo5789]

7 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Not the current scouts. Different time different era. It's like suggesting the Leafs won the cup in the last century will some how make it better for the current team  sad to say there are fans that believe that

And yet DeLorme was part of our atrocious scouting past and was a key figure in getting one of our top franchise players. Brackett is leaving, many of our current scouts are still here. In a post earlier, most of top picks were recommended by scouts that remain in our system today. So what's the problem?

[Squamfan]

 

[spook007]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Conversely how can it not be perceived that Brackett sees error/holes and either wishes to eliminate them or not want part of it. It would sully his good name. Benning knew Brackets contract was coming to and end and traded away this years first round pick. Miller is a good acquisition for sure but Vcr is not ready for a good Cup run, heck they're only just scraping in as it is never mind win the whole thing. Vcr will take a run at the Cup when EP & QH have matured and upped their game, I'm confident of that and I'm sure Benning is too. Personally I'd have preferred to keep the draft pick simply because the team is not ready, it will be, but not yet. IMO

Not to start arguing with you Fred, but so What? Should a GMs plans for the playing staff hinge on, who within the non playing staffs contract is coming to an end??

Sure the egos of staff members has to be further down the list, than dictating what the GMs plan is with his idea and plans for team building. Imagine Oilers lost the plot and said we could have McD for next years 1st round pick, but we declined because we didn’t want to upset a scout... come on...

 

Don’t care, how much of a guru Brackett is, but if Benning spending his 1st and
2nd in next years draft had anything to do with Bracketts decision, then it was all about Brackett and not the Canucks. After all Benning is the one laying the plan for the team, not Brackett. 
 

[wildcam]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

Agree 100%
Worst part is they would still complain if he gave us the cup.
Don’t have problem with different view points, as different perspectives are always important. 
But this constant Benning bashing is nothing short of disgusting. 

Pathetic really... 

OMG...That is the best post,  We win cup and they will still have something negative or stupid to bring up..lol lol 

Benning has done a fantastic job and young talent pool is amazing..We had Gaunce and Horvat as prospects when Benning took over....lol..lol...

If there was a injury we were in big trouble and then Kesler wanted out and demanded Ducks or Pittsburgh trade right away...

So top forwards were Henrik, Daniel, Burrows, Vrabata, Higgins, Hansen, Bonino.....Poor Jim Benning what a pathetic top 6 he started with...

 

[spook007]

5 minutes ago, wildcam said:

OMG...That is the best post,  We win cup and they will still have something negative or stupid to bring up..lol lol 

Benning has done a fantastic job and young talent pool is amazing..We had Gaunce and Horvat as prospects when Benning took over....lol..lol...

If there was a injury we were in big trouble and then Kesler wanted out and demanded Ducks or Pittsburgh trade right away...

So top forwards were Henrik, Daniel, Burrows, Vrabata, Higgins, Hansen, Bonino.....Poor Jim Benning what a pathetic top 6 he started with...

 

Loved them in their primes...

But not much to start up with for Jim. 
 

He may not be perfect, but he has done wonders for our future. 
 

Keep up the good work JB

[theo5789]

14 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Conversely how can it not be perceived that Brackett sees error/holes and either wishes to eliminate them or not want part of it. It would sully his good name. Benning knew Brackets contract was coming to and end and traded away this years first round pick. Miller is a good acquisition for sure but Vcr is not ready for a good Cup run, heck they're only just scraping in as it is never mind win the whole thing. Vcr will take a run at the Cup when EP & QH have matured and upped their game, I'm confident of that and I'm sure Benning is too. Personally I'd have preferred to keep the draft pick simply because the team is not ready, it will be, but not yet. IMO

The Miller trade was an opportunity presented upon itself. Perhaps a player of his calibre is not available whenever you believe we are ready to compete and we spend that 1st on a lesser player at that point. This was more of a trade because of opportunity not because he was trying to time it with Brackett's contract ending (especially considering Benning actually wanted to extend him still). If we are seriously competing in a couple of years and have Miller locked in at a bargain contract still at that point, then it's still a great trade even if it was made in advance of your proposed timeline (although I get the feeling that the Canucks as a whole do not consider themselves write offs for a couple more years and if anything, feel they are that much closer to success with the acquisition of Miller). First we have to make the playoffs to give these young guys the experience and they can use this experience as they mature and be fully prepared players when we are making serious runs.

 

The director of amateur scouting rarely has their name sullied. The GM has more at stake. DeLorme survived longer in this role than many GMs despite the draft track record. Not many even know the directors of other teams. Brackett would have a major ego to think this way.

[wildcam]

36 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

 

I agree and Benning had the final say and took Pettersson... No question Benning had final say on drafting and especially 1st and 2nd rounders..

Sure glad Benning had final decision and  took Pettersson, ... Thanks  Jim Benning - A Grade in 6 years Drafting....

Started with 2014..

Virtanen, McCann, Demko Tryamkin, Forsling...,Unreal  drafting 5 players in his first draft year... ..

 

Judd Bracket was still part time guy then in 2014..

Edited May 30, 2020 by wildcam

[theo5789]

36 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

 

I guess DeLorme will be next to go and Hammarstrom too. Benning will fire himself for being excited about EP and selecting him.

[shiznak]

4 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Judd Brackett is a long way from being at the same level as Al Murray or Trevor Timmons. 
 

And as far as giving up control, here are a couple examples of how scouting department hirings worked in Tampa Bay:

 

 

 

https://www.thespec.com/sports/hamilton-region/2011/06/21/when-stevie-y-called-he-said-yes.html

 

 

 

https://www.syracuse.com/crunch/2018/06/ex-syracuse_crunch_captain_lands_new_job_with_tampa_bay_lightning.html

 

In Montreal, Timmons has run amateur scouting and the draft under 4 GMs, but in that time, he’s watched as stuff like this has happened:

 

 

 

http://intentionaloffside.com/?p=1408

 

Bergevin certainly defers to Timmons often during the draft (similar to how we saw Benning work with Brackett), but the current Habs GM also feels free to hire and fire scouts as he wishes:

 

 

http://allhabs.net/headlines-bergevin-kinsella-fan-power-mortenson/

 

I could go on with this, but I think the point has been made.

 

GMs don’t give up full control of amateur scouting departments to their directors of amateur scouting, especially when it comes to personnel decisions. The type of autonomy that Brackett was reported to have been seeking would really be unprecedented for a director of scouting. Even guys like Murray and Timmons, with decades of experience (and holding titles like AGM, in addition to their director title), have to report to their GM, and have to make decisions in consultation with their GM, and sometimes get overruled entirely by their GM, especially when it comes to hiring/firing scouts.
 

 

It was being reported Judd want to take full control of the scouting department (eg: overseeing the draft, combines, evaluation of prospects, etc). Much like what Murray and Timmins are currently doing. They are the ones who run the draft, not the GM. This is what Judd wants. With Benning’s scouting background, he wasn’t willing to let Judd have that kind of power. No one is reporting Judd having power of personnel decisions with the club.

 

Like I said, it isn’t unprecedented for GMs to let their director of scouting run the entire scouting department. Not all GMs have a scouting background.

Edited May 30, 2020 by shiznak

[GhostsOf1994]

So, brackett is like a draft pick the canucks selected, spent years developing and now seems to be in his prime as he hits UFA.

 

It Sucks but if Benning & Co developed brackett we shouldn't be too concerned.

 

Any scout wanting complete control over who he picks on draft day is reaching above his pay grade.

 

Will Brackett ever be a GM? Doubt it.

Will a scout ever have more say then a GM?No

 

I liked bracketts personality and professionalism.

 

All these conspiracy theories are not even a theory but speculation and ramblings of those smoking too much of their own crop.

 

Lindens gone, he wanted one thing and GMJB saw it differently and JB was right.

 

We only know brackett wanted more control, that's not how director of scouting operates in any pro league.

 

The canucks were right to let him walk, chances are that after whatever deal he signs with a new team will be regrettable for brackett.

 

I think he has seen all the picks Ottawa has and has collectively messed all his shorts.

 

At some point if your team drafts good and develops those players and adds the missing pieces via UFA or trades, you must move excess assets for other areas of weakness.

 

Miller for 1st and 3rd mazanec

Toffoli for madden and a 2nd

Myers via UFA

Ferland( beast come playoffs) ufa

Pearson for guddy

 

 

Madden won't be pushing any of Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat Toffoli Pearson 

Ferland Gaudette Virtanen Podkolzin hoglander out of Vancouver.

 

The 1st and 3rd for Miller will not have an impact on any roster for atleast 1-4 more seasons, about when Millers current deal expires.

 

Unfortunately Ferland got hit by the injury bug, I'm excited for what a healthy, hungry and settled ferkie can do come playoffs.

 

Myers is an excellent acquisition and below market price for what he was being offered.

 

Players that want to be here, belong here.

Staff that want to be here, belong here.

 

 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

16 minutes ago, wildcam said:

I agree and Benning had the final say and took Pettersson... No question Benning had final say on drafting and especially 1st and 2nd rounders..

Sure glad Benning had final decision and  took Pettersson, ... Thanks  Jim Benning - A Grade in 6 years Drafting....

Started with 2014..

Virtanen, McCann, Demko Tryamkin, Forsling...,Unreal  drafting 5 players in his first draft year... ..

 

Judd Bracket was still part time guy then in 2014..

Bottom line previous GM on players developed.

Horvat, Hutton, I guess Hodgson.

 

We already have Boeser, Virtanen, Demko, Pettersson and Hughes. And more in the pipeline.

The team has not drafted this well in ages. Better still we are also finding gems through the NCAA. (Some hits, some misses)

 

 

[TimberWolf]

Bening was a terrible GM with Judd and will continue to be terrible without. Doubt much will change

[Ballisticsports.]

39 minutes ago, wildcam said:

I agree and Benning had the final say and took Pettersson... No question Benning had final say on drafting and especially 1st and 2nd rounders..

Sure glad Benning had final decision and  took Pettersson, ... Thanks  Jim Benning - A Grade in 6 years Drafting....

Started with 2014..

Virtanen, McCann, Demko Tryamkin, Forsling...,Unreal  drafting 5 players in his first draft year... ..

 

Judd Bracket was still part time guy then in 2014..

Maybe when Bracket was working part time in 2014, it was his work and suggestions on players to pick outside the 1st round, that got him his promotion?

Maybe ever since he has been right about every pick that they picked or didn't that he wants more say as having proved it to them?

Maybe it was just me, but came across that  Benning was in divorce court - i made him what he is today, I mentored him, i gave him his opportunity

As we all know, the whole truth is rarely released to the public

Hopefully we retain draft picks in the future and draft well and find gems outside the 1st round, as  we should be getting late round picks like the previous Canucks teams only got for many years

[Provost]

So, some of the “other side” of the story are trickling out from sources in the organization that don’t quite agree with JB’s spin on things.

 

- Brackett wasn’t asking for complete autonomy 

- He Was a key figure at the drafts under Linden but when Linden was fired, he got sidelined and a reduced voice in decisions.  Those people sharing clips of those Linden year drafts as proof of how well things were working are showing what is WAS like when things were working well under Linden and everyone was being heard.

- Benning and a Weisbrod took over staff decisions in his department last summer and fired/hired scouts.

Benning did say publicly in February that he and Weisbrod wanted to be more involved in day to day scouting (the reason for promoting Gear to do more business side responsibility).  That fits a lot more with Brackett being pushed aside than Brackett being a megalomaniac who wanted powers never known in the hockey world as has been suggested.  Benning, by his own admission, was actively reducing Brackett’s role.... so any conditions by Brackett would have almost certainly been about maintaining the scope of his role... not wanting to take over Jim’s duties in an unprecedented set of demands like some are suggesting.

 

Add in Linden heavily praising Brackett when he was interviewed during Sedin week (and tactfully neglecting to mention a Weisbrod and Benning), which makes it clear that Brackett was part of the losing Linden side to a power struggle.

 

Also add in that Benning’s comments on not being interested in the political stuff and also believing in the chain of command are entirely bull crap knowing the recent history.  He made a play and successfully negotiated his last contract to bypass the boss who hired him in Linden, so that he reported directly to ownership where he sold a competing vision that eventually resulted in Linden getting fired.  That is exactly office politics and not caring about the chain of command that is suddenly now a core tenet of his beliefs for his entire career.  It is very clear from many voices that Linden felt betrayed by Benning’s power play, and if anyone doubts Linden’s class they haven’t paid attention to the last 25 years.  JB isn’t the folksy farmer aww shucks dolt some make him out to be.  He seems to be projecting his own faults onto someone else.

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-bracketts-power-play-for-autonomy-costs-canucks-star-scout-his-job?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1590796242

Edited May 30, 2020 by Provost

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

Practice, We talking about practice?

 

What I find funny is that there is a group on herre that seem to spend a lot of time talking smack about the media.

They also seem to spend a lot of time seeking out the same said media to give them somethihng to talk about.

They HATE the media, but cannot stop clicking.

 

They when you try to make a point about anything, they claim you are parroting the media that they hate.

 

I don't read JD Burke, in fact I read one of his posts last week just to get a taste of what aGENT and and Sam were on about.

Sounds self agrandizing, I don't think I need more.

Honestly, I'd rather listen to Brian Burke than JD.

 

This is where it gets funny, "JD Burke is a moron. Jim is a great GM because he signed Myers for less than JD Burke thought"

"My grandmother can't skate. Jake Virtanen was a great pick because he skates better than my grandmother"

If you don't like JD Burke don't read his stuff, I don't.

If you want to argue the merits if Jim Benning or Judd Brackett, compare them to other GMs or scouts.

 

If you want to talk about JD Burke, start a thread about him. You and aGENT and Sam can have a great time talking about what a fool he is.

To me, JD Burke is like a fly. A parasite? yes. Interesting? no. Worth hating? no. Influential? not to me.

 

Only time I tend to 'read' his stuff is when people on here unfortunately regurgitate it and then declare his verbal diarrhea as 'proof' and 'facts'.