[Signing] Maple Leafs re-sign Travis Dermott

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Well signing on super cheap $700k deals doesn’t suggest “cashing it” at all.  It suggests giving up cash to win.  Bottom feeding teams would have paid them more just for name recognition to fans.

 

I wouldn’t want to play against that line and they would do pretty well matching up with most 4th lines in the league.  They would certainly produce well beyond their $2.1 million total price tag.  78 points total last year between them (26 points average).  If they were on a line together this year they probably beat that production.

 

Don't mistake them being well past their prime with not still being capable NHLers.  
 

Really though, it is pretty obvious they were signed for culture reasons and not just for on ice performance... much like we signed Sundin back in the day.  

You lost me at the end.   Most overpaid vet so far in the history of the NHL.   Was a ridiculous contract ... not part of the group that believes he showed the Sedins the path either.    The Sedins at that time were already producing like Sundin did for the majority of his career.   10 million back then would be like 16 million now cap percentage wise.   Imagine JT or anyone signing at that price. And it’s not like he was the Crobsy or Ovi of the day either ... more like the Backstrom or something ha ha. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by IBatch

[GhostsOf1994]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

You lost me at the end.   Most overpaid vet so far in the history of the NHL.   Was a ridiculous contract ... not part of the group that believes he showed the Sedins the path either.    The Sedins at that time were already producing like Sundin did for the majority of his career.   10 million back then would be like 16 million now cap percentage wise.   Imagine JT or anyone signing at that price. And it’s not like he was the Crobsy or Ovi of the day either ... more like the Backstrom or something ha ha. 

Sorry Ibatch, i disagree.

 

Mats sundin is a hall of famer that carried TML for a decade, basically by himself.

 

The impact Mats had on the team and not only the Sedins is immeasurable. 

 

The 2 years after, kesler exploded with his 2 highest point totals of his career.

 

The 2 years after mats was here, didn't the twins win back to back scoring titles?

 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, mll said:

It's his qualifying offer but on a 1-way deal.  Dermott did not have arbitration rights but will in a year.

I bet I can guess what he chooses. 

[Bure_Pavel]

53 minutes ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Yes.

 

The timing of the Tavares signing was suspect, especially since the team didn't have their other core pieces locked up.  I don't think it's a surprise that their best playoff showings were in 2017 and 2018 as they had much more depth in their forward and defence groups compared to 2019 and 2020.

 

They're slowly getting back to a deeper team with the moves they're making this year.  Let's see if it pays off.

The main question still surrounding the team, is which team will eliminate them in the first round next year? 

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Sorry Ibatch, i disagree.

 

Mats sundin is a hall of famer that carried TML for a decade, basically by himself.

 

The impact Mats had on the team and not only the Sedins is immeasurable. 

 

The 2 years after, kesler exploded with his 2 highest point totals of his career.

 

The 2 years after mats was here, didn't the twins win back to back scoring titles?

 

Yes two years after.   No I don’t buy into this idea that six months of Sundin made such a big impact.     Yes he was a HHOFer,  but a marginal one, they definitely aren’t all created equally - but at least he retired before regression.   He wasn’t a top five C during his era but pretty close - hence the Backstrom comparison.    If we are going to play this game then might as well say Messier made Naslund a three time first team all-star. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by IBatch

[NorthWestNuck]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Well signing on super cheap $700k deals doesn’t suggest “cashing it” at all.  It suggests giving up cash to win.  Bottom feeding teams would have paid them more just for name recognition to fans.

 

I wouldn’t want to play against that line and they would do pretty well matching up with most 4th lines in the league.  They would certainly produce well beyond their $2.1 million total price tag.  78 points total last year between them (26 points average).  If they were on a line together this year they probably beat that production.

 

Don't mistake them being well past their prime with not still being capable NHLers.  
 

Really though, it is pretty obvious they were signed for culture reasons and not just for on ice performance... much like we signed Sundin back in the day.  

Don’t get me wrong, I was more referring to the action movie stars cashing in on their names.

 

But I absolutely agree, I think that line could have flashes of their former selves where they dominate opposing bottom six lines and the rest of the time they’ll be competent players that will have trouble with some younger and faster lines. Although I disagree with them leaving cash on the table to come to Toronto. I don’t think there were any other significant offers from any other teams.

also, yes I too think they will have a positive impact in the locker room and on the ice beyond stats.

Edited October 23, 2020 by NorthWestNuck

[AV.]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes two years after.   No I don’t buy into this idea that six months of Sundin made such a big impact.     Yes he was a HHOFer,  but a marginal one, they definitely aren’t all created equally - but at least he retired before regression.   He wasn’t a top five C during his era but pretty close - hence the Backstrom comparison.    If we are going to play this game then might as well say Messier made Naslund a three time first team all-star. 

Well, did Naslund ever go on record to talk about the presence of Messier in the same way that Kesler went on record to talk about Sundin?

 

Also, very questionable to suggest that Sundin wasn't a top 5 C of his era.  I'd say only Forsberg/Sakic/Modano were clear of him, with Fedorov and Lindros on par or not too far behind.  I wouldn't really put names like Yzerman, Lemieux , and Messier into the mix because a good portion of their careers had been played during the 1980s even if they officially ended things in the mid-2000s.  Not trying to start a debate but Sundin was as legit as they came and I don't think he's a marginal HHOFer either.

[Provost]

32 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes two years after.   No I don’t buy into this idea that six months of Sundin made such a big impact.     Yes he was a HHOFer,  but a marginal one, they definitely aren’t all created equally - but at least he retired before regression.   He wasn’t a top five C during his era but pretty close - hence the Backstrom comparison.    If we are going to play this game then might as well say Messier made Naslund a three time first team all-star. 

You don’t have to buy it, but the actual players involved talk publicly about it and I think they probably know better.  It wasn’t two years after Sundin left that Kesler broke out... it started right the next season.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/leafs-hour/ryan-kesler-new-podcast-leafs-minus-kadri-burke-sundin-canuck/

 

The Sedins have talked about it and how they got his autograph as kids.

Gillis also says it was Sundin who told him that Henrik should be captain.

 

Immediately following Sundin playing with them, was the heyday of those players.  Art Ross and Hart the next year for Henrik... then the next couple of years culminating in the 2011 run.

[Gollumpus]

2 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

A family site that allows pictures of middle fingers to be used a response against users?

 

Not surprised the mods "missed" this.

What? He's showing us that he has an owie on his middle finger. Where's the problem?

 

                                                               regards,  G.

[CaptKirk888]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Yep... and if you ask Kesler and the Sedins, they gush about what a positive impact it was on them to play with him.   
 

I think the same idea is behind Jumbo on the Leafs.  Instant respect in the locker room, and maybe their younger players will be more focussed.  Heck, if they signed Perry... a little Corey Perry rubbing off on them wouldn’t hurt at all.  Everyone hated playing against him but wanted him on their team.

 

edit:  I maybe could have formed the sentence better than “Corey Perry rubbing off on them”.... but either meaning could be equally accurate, so I will leave it...

I was thinking the same until I saw your edit haha. It wouldn't hurt, but it might not feel good either?

[GhostsOf1994]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes two years after.   No I don’t buy into this idea that six months of Sundin made such a big impact.     Yes he was a HHOFer,  but a marginal one, they definitely aren’t all created equally - but at least he retired before regression.   He wasn’t a top five C during his era but pretty close - hence the Backstrom comparison.    If we are going to play this game then might as well say Messier made Naslund a three time first team all-star. 

Naslund has been quoted saying messier contributed massively to his own development as a leader. Barf messier barf.

 

Sundin 

1994/95 47 points in 47gp #22 out of fwds

1995/96 83p in 76gp #26 put of fwds

1996/97 94 in 82gp #7 out of fwds

1997/98 74p in 82gp #15 out of fwds

1998/99 83p in 82gp #12 out of fwds

1999/00 73p in 73gp #17 out of fwds

2000/01 74p in 82gp #37 out of fwds

2001/02 80 in 82gp #4 out of fwds

2002/03 72p in 75gp #25 out of fwds

2003/04 75p in 81gp #13 out of fwds

 

Many of these years had, jagr, bure, selanne, kariya,hull, shanahan, palffy, amonte, fleury,naslund, mogilny as wingers.

 

The year naslund and bertuzzi were were #2 & 3 for league scoring, where was mats?

 

#4 and the top scoring C that year, the closest in points on the laffs that year was Darcy Tucker with 59. DARCY TUCKER

 

During that time period mats sundin is #2 in points only behind Joe Sakic for Centers.

 

#4 out of all forwards for points over that 10 year span. Behind Jagr, Sakic and Selanne.

 

Forget top 5 center, he was a top 4 fwds.

[Elias Pettersson]

You know your career is going in the toilet when your entry level salary in 2015 at age 19 is higher than your salary in 2020.  

[Gawdzukes]

16 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

We'll see.

 

They've add nice elements to their team that they haven't had before, at least not since Dubas took over.  If they manage to add Perry/Weegar/both, their lineup is suddenly looking fairly strong.

lol, you Leaves are delusional, turn yella and fall off the tree already, you'll be back with your golf clubs soon enough

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Naslund has been quoted saying messier contributed massively to his own development as a leader. Barf messier barf.

 

Sundin 

1994/95 47 points in 47gp #22 out of fwds

1995/96 83p in 76gp #26 put of fwds

1996/97 94 in 82gp #7 out of fwds

1997/98 74p in 82gp #15 out of fwds

1998/99 83p in 82gp #12 out of fwds

1999/00 73p in 73gp #17 out of fwds

2000/01 74p in 82gp #37 out of fwds

2001/02 80 in 82gp #4 out of fwds

2002/03 72p in 75gp #25 out of fwds

2003/04 75p in 81gp #13 out of fwds

 

Many of these years had, jagr, bure, selanne, kariya,hull, shanahan, palffy, amonte, fleury,naslund, mogilny as wingers.

 

The year naslund and bertuzzi were were #2 & 3 for league scoring, where was mats?

 

#4 and the top scoring C that year, the closest in points on the laffs that year was Darcy Tucker with 59. DARCY TUCKER

 

During that time period mats sundin is #2 in points only behind Joe Sakic for Centers.

 

#4 out of all forwards for points over that 10 year span. Behind Jagr, Sakic and Selanne.

 

Forget top 5 center, he was a top 4 fwds.

Ha ha ... cherry picking stats, I can do that too.   How about Pierre Turgeon as a comparison, two years apart in age, within 50 games played and within 20 or so career points, also a 500 goal scorer  ... does that make him  top five center  and a top four forward of his era?      If he was that good how come zero first team and only two second team all-star selections?    If he was so good how come he never came close to an Art Ross playing against the guys who killed it in the 80’s, now in their 30’s and still wiping the floor with him in the 90’s?  Those guys count too you know, they did play in his “era”.    Yes maybe I’m being a little harsh, he was very good for a very long time but the Cs then we’re pretty stiff competition.   PGP guy.  Forsberg, Francis,Gilmour, Turgeon, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Yzerman, Sakic, Lemieux, Gretzky, Fedorov, Lindros, Modano, Oats.... Marginal is harsh will take that back I but I stand by that he wasn’t a top five center - for most of his career.    Just because guys aged out doesn’t mean he wasn’t playing against them, or had their careers cut short to injury as was the case for LaFontaine, Forsberg and Lindros.    Yzerman on one knee...was also a PGP just before calling it a career.    

Also I’ve read anything I can find about what the Sedins have said about Sundin.   Maybe someone can provide a link because it’s not much.   Other then telling them to relax in the playoffs and just play their game like it’s a regular season one.   Hmmm.   Ok.   Well it worked once I suppose.  

Edited October 24, 2020 by IBatch

[GhostsOf1994]

Cherry picked. Right.

 

Turgeon likely would have have had a better career if not for the infamous hunter hit.

 

 

You cant argue the fact. Over a 10 year span mat sundin was the 2nd highest point producing C in the NHL. 

 

Top 4 in points over that time.

 

Cherry picked my 

[189lb enforcers?]

There aren’t many pivots I’d pick ahead of Sundin, beyond the obvious. 
 

His play and his character were a full measure of excellence. 
 

Those were the days. 
 

Now, the league has some comparables, but it’s a stretch. 
 

Who is today’s Lindros? Sundin? Trottier? 

Let alone Lemieux. 
 

I feel lucky to have had those experiences and even though I like watching EP, he’s not even close to even a Modano right now. My favourites were all the physical players, like Lindros, and even Sundin, who was an absolute bull and I’m sure his physical stats were not accurate.
 

The guy was an absolute force, just didn’t fight or maim, but could do everything with three players literally hanging from him, I always thought he had one of the best shots in the game. His wrister or snapper were Bure good.

 

Nostalgic.
That era was incredible.   

Edited October 24, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

There aren’t many pivots I’d pick ahead of Sundin, beyond the obvious. 
 

His play and his character were a full measure of excellence. 
 

Those were the days. 
 

Now, the league has some comparables, but it’s a stretch. 
 

Who is today’s Lindros? Sundin? Trottier? 

Let alone Lemieux. 
 

I feel lucky to have had those experiences and even though I like watching EP, he’s not even close to even a Modano right now. My favourites were all the physical players, like Lindros, and even Sundin, who was an absolute bull and I’m sure his physical stats were not accurate.
 

The guy was an absolute force, just didn’t fight or maim, but could do everything with three players literally hanging from him, I always thought he had one of the best shots in the game. His wrister or snapper were Bure good.

 

Nostalgic.
That era was incredible.   

Lindros was really one of a kind.   For anyone reading this who doesn’t remember or wasn’t around back then I’d suggest googling his hits.  And his highlights.   Yes it’s an iconic moment when he was hit by the Stevens train, but his hits were simply unreal.   If you want to see 200-220lb players fly 20 feet and crash into the boards then do watch.   Makes the tiny (Hits that are recorded ) bumps today look like pee-wee hockey.   For as 3-4 year period or so there was nobody as good all around as him at C.    Messier’s glow died when he went to the Canucks ... think he scored 45ish goals and 90 plus points the year before.   Even though we shouldn’t talk about him he was pretty darn good too.    Those were the days for sure.   Rodeo time.   Guys like Shanny, Larionov, Federov, Bure, Selanne..Kariya, Mogilny, Lemuiex,  .... hate to say it but EP and QHs wouldn’t have survived back then.   Had to be strong enough to get hooked, smashed, held on to and still do your thing.  Even Gretzky managed it ok right up until he retired.   Back to Lindros, when your line weighs 750lbs with your equipment... that says a lot about what hockey was like back then.   Yes Sundin deserves his due - but I hate to read hyperbole of how he set the Sedins off.   And still could name 5 c’s I’d rather have on my team during that era.   Alfie was pretty close.   So was Turgeon.   Messier, Francis, Gilmour, Gretzky, Lemuiex, Federov, Lindros, Sakic, Yzerman, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Forsberg were all better in the 90’s, maybe Oats too, once they aged out things changed but he didn’t.   I never thought of him as a top C though.    And still highly doubt his six months with us helped the Sedins and some seem to think he did.    Naslund sung Messier’s praises more then i remember the Sedins singing Sundin 6 months. 
 

Edit:   I also wonder if he was say a WNP Jet/ARI player for most of his career if he’d be as touted.   He’s 11 PGP for centre’s during his era if you just take the 90’s as his sample size. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by IBatch

[189lb enforcers?]

46 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lindros was really one of a kind.   For anyone reading this who doesn’t remember or wasn’t around back then I’d suggest googling his hits.  And his highlights.   Yes it’s an iconic moment when he was hit by the Stevens train, but his hits were simply unreal.   If you want to see 200-220lb players fly 20 feet and crash into the boards then do watch.   Makes the tiny (Hits that are recorded ) bumps today look like pee-wee hockey.   For as 3-4 year period or so there was nobody as good all around as him at C.    Messier’s glow died when he went to the Canucks ... think he scored 45ish goals and 90 plus points the year before.   Even though we shouldn’t talk about him he was pretty darn good too.    Those were the days for sure.   Rodeo time.   Guys like Shanny, Larionov, Federov, Bure, Selanne..Kariya, Mogilny, Lemuiex,  .... hate to say it but EP and QHs wouldn’t have survived back then.   Had to be strong enough to get hooked, smashed, held on to and still do your thing.  Even Gretzky managed it ok right up until he retired.   Back to Lindros, when your line weighs 750lbs with your equipment... that says a lot about what hockey was like back then.   Yes Sundin deserves his due - but I hate to read hyperbole of how he set the Sedins off.   And still could name 5 c’s I’d rather have on my team during that era.   Alfie was pretty close.   So was Turgeon.   Messier, Francis, Gilmour, Gretzky, Lemuiex, Federov, Lindros, Sakic, Yzerman, LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Forsberg were all better in the 90’s, maybe Oats too, once they aged out things changed but he didn’t.   I never thought of him as a top C though.    And still highly doubt his six months with us helped the Sedins and some seem to think he did.    Naslund sung Messier’s praises more then i remember the Sedins singing Sundin 6 months. 
 

Edit:   I also wonder if he was say a WNP Jet/ARI player for most of his career if he’d be as touted.   He’s 11 PGP for centre’s during his era if you just take the 90’s as his sample size. 

Good read. 
We probably disagree some on Sundin, who was like Iginla in that he was basically a one-man-team. Sundin rarely had any decent wingers. I mean, certainly no Almo, like LaFontaine or whatever. He had guys like Steen. Yawn. Lol 

 

Anyways, thanks for another trip down memory lane, bud. 

[IBatch]

53 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Good read. 
We probably disagree some on Sundin, who was like Iginla in that he was basically a one-man-team. Sundin rarely had any decent wingers. I mean, certainly no Almo, like LaFontaine or whatever. He had guys like Steen. Yawn. Lol 

 

Anyways, thanks for another trip down memory lane, bud. 

Sundin and Iginla are great comparables.    I really do think that the quality of talent took a huge dip overall in the 2000’s...its somewhat obvious just by the players in their 30’s that were better then the players in their 20’s that went on to play in the 2000’s.    Really think the three lockouts robbed some guys of a strong case into the HHOF as well, or at least shortened their overall careers and stats and Sundin for sure was one of those guys.   When a 37ish year old Zubov scores 73 points after the lockout- its not hard to imagine how many very good NHLers stats suffered during the dead puck era either.   Lidstrom couldn’t win a Norris until the old guard was mostly done or retired...during his 20-30’s.    The amount of talent in the 90’s might have been the best ever.

 

Edit:  Right now I’m encouraged with the amount of extraordinary Ds coming into the league as in Dahlin, Heiskanen (who I think is the best of the bunch), Makar and our very own QHs.   It’s not much different then when Bourque, Coffey, Housley and Larry Murphy came in.    It’s been too long.   Ovi and Crosby are this generations Gretzky and Mario in a way, well maybe inbetween Jagr and Sakic - nothing wrong with that.   Highlights from the 90’s hold up just fine to today’s game, with the exception fourth lines mean an entirely different thing now. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by IBatch

[ruilin96]

On 10/23/2020 at 7:27 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

You know your career is going in the toilet when your entry level salary in 2015 at age 19 is higher than your salary in 2020.  

Covid has a lot to do with it. Dermott is a decent bottom pairing defenseman, and if it wasn't for COVID, he probably would've made slightly north of $1 million.