[Proposal] Would the Canucks be a contender with another Top 6 Forwarded added to the group via UFA?

[Patel Bure]

Would the Canucks be a contender with another Top 6 Forwarded added to the group via UFA?

 

Make no mistake about it.   Benning could free up cap space if he really wanted to by offering Rathbone plus a 2021 1st rounder as sweeteners to move a bad contract.  That package would easily free you of Sutter+ and maybe even Loui.     Benning however, has expressed the desire to preserve as many picks and prospects as possible due to the Miller and Toffoli deals.   Still, one can't help but wonder what a guy like Hoffman could do for this team even if it was just for one year.   

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoffman

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Sutter or Eriksson

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Benn

 

Rafferty or Chatfield

 

Demko

Holtby

 

Hoffman, Schmidt, and Holtby collectively, would be significant upgrades over Toffoli, Tanev, and 2019 Demko.     While people can argue that 2020 Demko is a significant downgrade from 2020 Markstrom, these past playoffs suggest otherwise.   Yes, the Canucks altered their style of play when Markstrom went down, but those saves that Demko made were textbook.  In many respects, Demko's three game performance was on par with McLean's 1994 and Luongo's 2007 performances.   Seriously....watch the tapes if you don't believe me.   That performance by Demko was not some flash in the pan Craig Billington or Matt Murray type thing where those guys looked decent behind beastly teams, but I digress.

 

The point I'm making this is:    The Canucks, with the addition of Hoffman via UFA, would be a better team on paper than the team that lost in Game 7 of the 2nd round last month.    

 

Would one season of Hoffman, plus a possible third round appearance, be enough to convince you to move a 2021 1st rounder and Rathbone in order to get rid of a bad contract (Sutter+ or Eriksson) so that a guy like Hoffman could be brought in?       

 

 

 

[CanucksCountry]

I think we are really close, i'd say one more Rhd is also needed 

[Patel Bure]

Just now, CanucksCountry said:

I think we are really close, i'd say one more Rhd is also needed 

That's what I'm wondering as well.     

 

In this covid era discounted contracts world, could guys like Hoffman and Hamonic/Vatanen be had, collectively, for 5 million?   Again, one year deals.   

 

-Hoffman for 3 million

-Hamonic or Vatanen for 2 million.    

 

Rathbone and 2021 1st for a team (Detroit) to take Baertschi and Sutter off our hands.    

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoffman

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Eriksson

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Vatanen

 

Benn

 

Demko

Holtby

 

Surely, the team above would join the big boys.........right?

[Coconuts]

Rathbone is a nice prospect, but he's unproven at the pro level. Him and a 1st might move Eriksson, but it's not moving Eriksson and Sutter even if there was a team out there looking to take on 10m+ in cap space. I'm really reluctant to move our two young pieces for a guy who's 30, we're not in picking up pieces to put us over the top territory yet. 

 

Hoffman isn't worth the lapse in top flight talent entering our prospect pipeline. He alone isn't enough, our defense needs to be better as a whole before I'd consider us a contender. Our third pairing looks pretty iffy right now, and all it'd take is one of our top four going down for things to look ugly. Juolevi looks promising, but as of right now we don't have much proven NHL quality at 5-7 besides Benn. 

 

Sutter will expire at the end of the year, Eriksson can either be bought out or flipped at 50% retained with a year left on his deal at much lower cost. We're better off riding out the season, seeing if any of our youth can change how we approach next offseason and the expansion draft, and continuing to build or prospect pool by actually having our top pick at the next draft.

 

This is without even going into what a player like Rathbone turning out as a viable PMD could do for our defensive depth via him playing on the third pairing in a year or two. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Coconuts

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Hoffman is not what we need. 

 

Next.

We don't need a proven and consistent 25-30 goal scorer?                   

 

Psycho girlfriend or not, I wouldn't say 'next' to that.  

 

Bring in Hoffman for a year, put up with the pyscho girlfriend, make significant headway in the playoffs, and then part ways amicably in the off-season.  

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

Rathbone is a nice prospect, but he's unproven at the pro level. Him and a 1st might move Eriksson, but it's not moving Eriksson and Sutter

Sorry I should clarify:

 

I meant one or the other, not both.  Eriksson OR Sutter (Maybe Sutter + Baertschi if we're being optimistic)

[CanucksCountry]

2 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

That's what I'm wondering as well.     

 

In this covid era discounted contracts world, could guys like Hoffman and Hamonic/Vatanen be had, collectively, for 5 million?   Again, one year deals.   

 

-Hoffman for 3 million

-Hamonic or Vatanen for 2 million.    

 

Rathbone and 2021 1st for a team (Detroit) to take Baertschi and Sutter off our hands.    

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Hoffman

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Motte-Beagle-MacEwen

 

Eriksson

 

Edler-Schmidt

Hughes-Myers

Juolevi-Vatanen

 

Benn

 

Demko

Holtby

 

Surely, the team above would join the big boys.........right?

I am guessing Hoffman is looking for the 5-6 range or else he would more then likely had been signed, i'd honestly rather going for a cheap deal With Hamonic or Vatanen i'd do my best to get Cernak out of Tampa 

[I.Am.Ironman]

I am not really on board with spending assets to clear 1 year of cap to 'go for it' this year. Why take that gamble when we cant go to games?

[Coconuts]

I'm also strongly of the opinion that if we're looking to do something drastic like pay the price required to move Eriksson, it'd better be because we're taking advantage of a cap strapped team like Tampa. Not to fish in free agency for guys who've walked on their teams who are likely at or approaching the tail end of their prime. That's the sort of move you make as an established contender, not the move you make after making the playoffs for the second time in seven years. And whoever we bring in needs to be worth whatever it costs to dump cap along with whatever we have to give up for said player. 

 

If we're freeing up cap space I strongly feel it should be to take on a piece/pieces that could grow with this core longer term. Something like a Cernak or Sergachev. I'm not interested in spending youth on diminishing assets when our competitive window is just opening. 

 

I understand fan excitement about playoffs, and spitballing via proposals, but I don't see the appeal in fast-tracking our way to being more competitive when we don't have to as a team on the rise. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Coconuts

[smithers joe]

aren’t we a mil  and a half over the cap?  

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

That's what I'm wondering as well.     

 

In this covid era discounted contracts world, could guys like Hoffman and Hamonic/Vatanen be had, collectively, for 5 million?   Again, one year deals.   

 

-Hoffman for 3 million

-Hamonic or Vatanen for 2 million.    

 

Rathbone and 2021 1st for a team (Detroit) to take Baertschi and Sutter off our hands.    

 

Personally, I don't see the cost being that great...............

 

Sutter is almost a wash, meaning in a non covid year, he proabaly brings back a small return............Now.......Sutter + 2020 4th maybe Sutter and DiPietro

Baertschi to the minors saves $1,050,000 ......Benn to the Minors saves another $1,050,000.....$4,375,00 + $2,100,000 - $1,500,000 = $5,000,000

 

There is your $5,000,000 spend it wisely!

 

 

[Phil_314]

Hell no to trading Rathbone for 1 year of cap relief.  Even for Loui I'd be perfectly content just writing him down to the minors.

We could possibly get Hoffman for cheap if this UFA drags out long enough and he fears not having a job.
Til then, I'd say we just wait it out and go with the current group we have, esp. if we risk losing a potential blue-chipper.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just now, Phil_314 said:

Hell no to trading Rathbone for 1 year of cap relief.  Even for Loui I'd be perfectly content just writing him down to the minors.

We could possibly get Hoffman for cheap if this UFA drags out long enough and he fears not having a job.
Til then, I'd say we just wait it out and go with the current group we have, esp. if we risk losing a potential blue-chipper.

I am in total agreement with you on this Phil

 

Rathbone has the potential to be a very good Dman

 

Like Fox good!

[Elias Pettersson]

Some posters need to do the math by looking at CapFriendly.  With a few internal moves we can clear up to $3.3 million in cap space. 

 

Ferland on LTIR

Baertschi to Utica

Eriksson to Utica

 

That would free up $5.6 million right there.  If we are $1.5 million over the cap now then with those 3 moves it would put us $4.1 million under the cap.  We call up Hawryluk and Juolevi and send down Rathbone and we have $3.3 million with 21 players, 13 forwards and 6 defencemen.  

 

If we run with 22 players then all we need to do is sign one more player.  We could probably get a guy who can play in the top 6 for under $3 million, or pick up another right handed Dman.  If Ferland can actually play and we don’t put him on LTIR then he would be the guy playing in our top 6 with BO and Pearson.  

 

I’m sure Benning’s plan is to wait it out and see where Ferland is at over the next few weeks.  Whether Ferland will play next year will determine our next move I think.  Either way Benning has already traded last year’s 1st and 2nd round pick for Miller and a now departed Tofffoli, so I don’t see him trading future picks unless it is for a young player who can grow with this team, not to clear cap space to pick up a UFA who can help us for one year.  

Edited October 29, 2020 by Elias Pettersson

[Gurn]

I'd like to save enough cap money this year so there is no bonus spillage.

This team needs as much cap space as they can get next year, to sign the players that matter  Petey and Quinn

plus either re-sign or replace  Edler, Pearson, Gaudette, and Sutter plus at least one other d spot for Benn being gone

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I think with next season in jeopardy/with so many question marks, I think its better to be patient, not making rash decisions to add pieces, but let our prospects develop/gain experience and tool up for the following season.

 

That way we can measure exactly what we are missing, and what prospects/young players can step in, and which ones we can begin to peddle off for a legitimate run.  I think be patient, suck up the big loser contracts in Erikssons, and ride it out.

[logic]

Hoffman is the exact opposite of the type of character JB looks when signing a player 

[JeremyCuddles]

3 minutes ago, logic said:

Hoffman is the exact opposite of the type of character JB looks when signing a player 

Never heard anything bad about him specifically, but that whole ordeal with his girlfriend is definitely worrying.

[Chris12345]

No. Maybe if we added Sid.

 

D is still not good.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

The only reason why we've been able to make moves like stealing Schmidt from Vegas is because we've been deliberate in how we've managed the cap space we have (regardless of past years' signings).  It's a lot harder to make those moves if we're already bent over a barrel, which is what the acquisition of Hoffman would result in.

 

No, we don't need him.  Certainly not for this year, and certainly not for a short-term (or any term length) hit.  Next.

 

(PS, it's obvious that this belongs in the proposals section instead of being in Canucks Talk, since the main thrust of your original post was to market Hoffman as the guy to get.)

In response to your PS, it doesn’t even have to be about Hoffman.   My main conceptual reasoning (and questioning) is as follows:

 

1) If a 2nd rounder is enough to get rid of Med Staal’s 5.7 million, then a 2021 1st should be enough to get rid of Sutter + Baertschi (about 7.6 million).

 

2) If 7.6 million - 1.5 million (the amount we’re over in cap right now) gets you to 6.1 million in extra cap space, then 6.1 could possibly land you both a top 6 forward and a serviceable RHD (maybe 4.5 for Hoffman and 1.5 for a guy like Hamonic).

 

3) Would it be worth it to get rid of a 2021 1st and clear up cap if it allowed us to sign a top 6 fwd and a serviceable RHD on one year contracts?    (Which would make us a 3rd round+ calibre team?)