Coronavirus outbreak

[Jack Fig]

34 minutes ago, gurn said:

The difference is the amount of people dying?

If about 2% of non vaccinated people die from catching covid and so far as I know, 0% of vaccinated people die from covid, well I can see a difference.

I'm not over 70, nor am I immuno-compromised. What's my number then?

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Jack Fig said:

I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. 

Well, then put your money where your immune system is

 

I'd personally love a detailed account of how a person feels from onset to passing or survival 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. 

the problem is, you don't know if you do have a "good" immune system against any particular virus, there's no way for you to know that. But lets say you do, by going the herd immunity route you also put other people at risk, and thats not fair to others if you have a vaccine available to you. You could have a low level case that you pass on to other people and not know it, e.g.

 

You're also risking having no protection against the variants. You just don't know Fig how good your personal immune system is, thats just a total guess. 

 

 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I'm not over 70, nor am I immuno-compromised. What's my number then?

see Fig 5 - you can see the hospitalization and death rate by age: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

 

compare that to the vaccine risk, its a easy to see from a risk pov a person should get a vaccine vs herd immunity. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

see Fig 5 - you can see the death rate by age: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html

 

compare that to the vaccine risk, its a easy to see from a risk pov a person should get a vaccine vs herd immunity. 

I won't be afraid of a virus with a 2% mortality rate I might never ever catch

 

You can't ask me to risk taking a vaccine with a vastly smaller chance of issue than the virus I claim i'm not afraid of....

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I won't be afraid of a virus with a 2% mortality rate I might never ever catch

 

You can't ask me to risk taking a vaccine with a vastly smaller chance of issue than the virus I claim i'm not afraid of....

I know, Hip. Just providing the info anyway, he was asking for real numbers and there they are. 

 

I would hope people would care about potentially passing the virus on to other people, given the vaccines are free, widely available now and its about the least one can do to help other people. Its not asking much. 

 

Even if you're not afraid of the mortality numbers, the hospitalization time is nasty. I wish they would actually show that on tv so people understand what 1000s of young people are going thorough. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[KoreanHockeyFan]

25 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. 

You can be confident in your own immune system all you want, that doesn't change the risk of spreading it to others with weaker immune systems. 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I know, Hip. Just providing the info anyway, he was asking for real numbers and there they are. 

 

I would hope people would care about potentially passing the virus on to other people, given the vaccines are free, widely available now and its about the least one can do to help other people. Its not asking much. 

 

Even if you're not afraid of the mortality numbers, the hospitalization time is nasty. I wish they would actually show that on tv so people understand what 1000s of young people are going thorough. 

Some people just need to re-visit their old economics textbooks and understand the concepts of marginal benefit and risk-reward ratios. 

 

The Prisoner Dilemma paradox is also a good place to start.

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I would hope people would care about potentially passing the virus on to other people, given the vaccines are free, widely available now and its about the least one can do to help other people. Its not asking much. 

If you've noticed their arguments.  NONE of them are ever about other people, only themselves.

 

The selfish never think of others

[thedestroyerofworlds]

41 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I'll bank on my good immune system. At this point, there's no reason not to. 

There is the reports of 1 in 3 covid "survivors" who suffer persistent symptoms.  Like loss of smell/taste.  Male "survivors" have an increased chance of erectile disfunction.  There is indications that even asymptomatic survivors can have lung issues.  

 

The whole point of vaccines is to allow you immune system a head start to fight off the viral infection before it becomes a problem.  Going "natural" means your immune system has to learn about the virus, then fight it.  This gives the viral infection time and that time can give it the opening to cause damage or death.  I'd rather like to taste my tasty Big Kahuna burger and then taste the sprite that I use to wash it down. Ahhh

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/covid-survivor-who-lost-sense-of-smell-and-taste-a-year-ago-gets-help-from-perfumery/3002349/

COVID Survivor Who Lost Sense of Smell and Taste A Year Ago Gets Help From Perfumery

With the help of a fragrance specialist, a COVID survivor who lost her sense of taste and smell tried out a long list different samples — not trying to figure out the perfect scent, just trying to find any scent whatsoever

 

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/yes-covid-19-can-cause-erectile-dysfunction/

Yes, COVID-19 Can Cause Erectile Dysfunction

Research suggests negative effects on sexual health due to coronavirus

 

 

 

https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseases/lung-disease-lookup/covid-19/about-covid-19

 

 

 

 

[BCNeil]

43+ can now book.  Things are really moving fast now.  I was finally able to book for next Sunday.  BC should get to over 40% first dose today.  Quebec hit 42%

[Gurn]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

The difference is the amount of people dying?

If about 2% of non vaccinated people die from catching covid and so far as I know, 0% of vaccinated people die from covid, well I can see a difference.

 

1 hour ago, Jack Fig said:

I'm not over 70, nor am I immuno-compromised. What's my number then?

Was in a hurry, walk time with Mom, but have a bit more time now.

The 2% number is from developed countries without a crashed medical system, like is happening in India now. So the mortality number is low at 2%.

Also, as others have pointed out, that is "just" the people that died, not the people that  end up with screwed up lungs, heart, brain fog, loss of taste and smell etc.

 

I don't know the percentages on that, from any official source, however if you say 3% end up as long haulers, then add the 2% that pass away; 5% of people that get covid either dying or being scrwed for life is a fairly significant number.

 

That is not using 1 in 3, or 33%  covid folk end up as long haulers as thedestroyerofworlds has posited.

But if you were to use that number you are now looking at about 2% death, and 33% long term ill, and now that is 35% of people that get covid. More than 1 in 3.

 

Still like your odds?

 

 

[Jack Fig]

37 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

Was in a hurry, walk time with Mom, but have a bit more time now.

The 2% number is from developed countries without a crashed medical system, like is happening in India now. So the mortality number is low at 2%.

Also, as others have pointed out, that is "just" the people that died, not the people that  end up with screwed up lungs, heart, brain fog, loss of taste and smell etc.

 

I don't know the percentages on that, from any official source, however if you say 3% end up as long haulers, then add the 2% that pass away; 5% of people that get covid either dying or being scrwed for life is a fairly significant number.

 

That is not using 1 in 3, or 33%  covid folk end up as long haulers as thedestroyerofworlds has posited.

But if you were to use that number you are now looking at about 2% death, and 33% long term ill, and now that is 35% of people that get covid. More than 1 in 3.

 

Still like your odds?

 

 

I would weigh those considerations against a drug of unknown effect that the FDA won't approve. I'm not a sworn anti-vaxxer, but this is a circumstance where pros and cons all should be weighed. That's where I'm at. 

[RU SERIOUS]

4 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

if there's something screwed up in the lower mainland, why is it always whalley?

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I would weigh those considerations against a drug of unknown effect that the FDA won't approve

Are any non approved vaccinnes being administered?

[Jack Fig]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Are any non approved vaccinnes being administered?

Approved for emergency use only, but not by the FDA. 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

Approved for emergency use only, but not by the FDA. 

Maybe that's because it is an emergency?

[thedestroyerofworlds]

5 minutes ago, Jack Fig said:

I would weigh those considerations against a drug of unknown effect that the FDA won't approve. I'm not a sworn anti-vaxxer, but this is a circumstance where pros and cons all should be weighed. That's where I'm at. 

Few things:

 

1)  Phased trials did occur, with thousands of participants getting 2 doses in the fall of last year.  Here is Pfizers:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine#:~:text=The Phase 3 clinical trial,as of November 13%2C 2020.

2)  We have over 1 billion doses given.  The US has over 115 million fully vaccinated people.  Millions of shots were administered in December of last year.  Data on issues with the vaccines have been and are being tracked.  It is FAR from being unknown.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

 

3)  The FDA gave emergency use and Pfizer is actually applying for FULL approval now that they have enough data, with further studies involving children.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01061-4

COVID vaccines and kids: five questions as trials begin

As the first clinical trials in young children start, here’s what scientists want to know.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/05/07/994839927/pfizer-seeks-full-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine

Pfizer Seeks Full FDA Approval For COVID-19 Vaccine

 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

I think someone needs to understand what Emergency Use Authorization mean.

Medical Countermeasures Dispensing: Emergency Use Authorization and the Postal Model, Workshop Summary.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53122/

An EUA must meet the following four statutory criteria to be considered. The goal of these criteria is to ensure that even in an emergency, the public is receiving the best, safest, most appropriate care possible.

1. There must be a serious or life-threatening illness caused by a specified chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear agent.
2. It must be reasonable to believe that the product covered by the EUA is going to be effective for the intended use—diagnosing, treating, or preventing either an illness or condition caused by a specific agent, or an illness or condition caused by an approved or authorized medical countermeasure deployed against the agent.
3. The known and potential benefits need to outweigh the known and potential risks.
4. There must be no adequate approved, alternative medical countermeasures available for the situation.

 

 

 

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained#:~:text=An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate,the current COVID-19 pandemic.

Emergency Use Authorization for Vaccines Explained

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

If you've noticed their arguments.  NONE of them are ever about other people, only themselves.

 

The selfish never think of others

I want to give @Jack Fig the benefit of the doubt there, and assume that he just hasn't seen the numbers. There's a ton of misinformation out there, some of it from our own health authorities.

 

But I think if someone just looks at the basic figures on risk of vaccine, vs. risk of getting and/or giving someone covid and what that means even if its not a fatal case, the decision is pretty simple.