[Trade] Senators trade Marian Gaborik, Anders Nilsson to Lightning for Braydon Coburn, Cedric Paquette, 2022 2nd-round pick

[Sean Monahan]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

Yeah. Lost Leivo too who was a good contributor. Still though the goaltending last year covered up a lot of mishaps. It’s a little worrisome since we’re running more younger defensively and without Markstrom but we had no choice understandably. 
 

Overall we’re more questionable than we were last year.  A 56 game season isn’t favourable IMO since we can’t afford prolonged rough patches with our youngsters(Demko/OJ/etc)

I actually think the forward group is just as good or probably better given they’ve had another year to develop and the blue line (if healthy) is at least as good as last year’s possibly better. The big difference will be if a top 4 guy goes down and we don’t have a Stecher type to capably eat those minutes until the other player is healthy. 
 

Goaltending is the biggest difference. Maybe Demko takes another step and Holtby regains some of his old form working with Clarke, maybe they both suck. The goaltending will be what determines the season IMO. 

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, Sean Monahan said:

I actually think the forward group is just as good or probably better given they’ve had another year to develop and the blue line (if healthy) is at least as good as last year’s possibly better. The big difference will be if a top 4 guy goes down and we don’t have a Stecher type to capably eat those minutes until the other player is healthy. 
 

Goaltending is the biggest difference. Maybe Demko takes another step and Holtby regains some of his old form working with Clarke, maybe they both suck. The goaltending will be what determines the season IMO. 

Top 4 D is just as good if not a little better. 
 

Forward group on paper is worse. Another question mark there too. Does Petey take another step? Etc etc. 
 

Goaltending is questionable as is our team defense. Marky had to bail us out too many times. Not sure what needs to change team D wise, we just weren’t good enough at times and relied a lot on our G who was our MVP for a good reason. 
 

We’re questionable in every aspect. A lot of things that are unanswered need to go right.  Hence my open-mindedness, partially due to our division being weird as well. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

I don't think we'll be any worse personally... Our top 4 D is MILES better IMO, our goaltending is largely a wash and our F core is basically the same but one more year experienced, stronger etc for our young, key players.

 

Our bottom pair is a bit of a question mark but there's loads of potential there to be an improvement, or at least a good. And if a slight downgrade, they'll likely see more limited action like a lot of better teams do with their third pair. There's also still the possibility we add Hamonic, in which case it's also clearly an improvement over last year.

 

But who knows? That's why they play the games. Maybe we will be worse? Or maybe take a breath and go for a walk lol.

 

And we did add some nice depth pieces like Hawr BTW... Otherwise we have a LOT of prospects who need cups of coffee at this level to see where they are (many of whom don't require waivers). If we signed a bunch of old, withering on the vine vets to fill those depth holes, people would just be whining about not letting kids play. 

 

As for the cap... Sure a bit more space would be nice. But covid happened... We're in the same position there as like 25+ other teams, suddenly having to make unexpected sacrifices to squeeze under the flat cap.

 

Basically all of our 'bad' (or mediocre) cap is gone in the next 1-2 years, Luongo re-crap included. The future is bright... Relax and enjoy.

 

This one just smacks the nail on the head. You'd think by now folks would cut the hand-wringing & navel-gazing?!

[aGENT]

38 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Forward group on paper is worse. Another question mark there too. Does Petey take another step? Etc etc. 

How? We basically never had both Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup last year and that's our only real 'loss'. Young guys (Petey, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Mac etc) should continue to progress and we'll potentially have more young guys (Lind, Hoglander and Podkolzin) all pushing for spots/call ups.

 

38 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Goaltending is questionable as is our team defense. Marky had to bail us out too many times. Not sure what needs to change team D wise, we just weren’t good enough at times and relied a lot on our G who was our MVP for a good reason. 

We needed more puck movers on each pair. We really only had Hughes last year. Enter Nate Schmidt. I think people are really underestimating what having one of those two guys on the ice for 40-50 minutes will do.

 

Hopefully Juolevi can also do a passable third pair version of that as well. More puck movement = less time in our zone. (Our very young forwards also need more experience in supporting the D, something they've hopefully gained/can build on)

 

You'll also notice that lots of shots from the outside that the goalie can see, was likely part of our game plan (which evidently worked for the most part).

 

As for the goaltending, I'm not particularly concerned. One more year experienced Demko and a Clark rejuvenated Holtby (Holtby's play only went south when his goalie coach left for the NYI's) is just fine.

 

38 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We’re questionable in every aspect. A lot of things that are unanswered need to go right.  Hence my open-mindedness, partially due to our division being weird as well. 

What team doesn't have a lot of questions? Especially this year?

[ilduce39]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How? We basically never had both Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup last year and that's our only real 'loss'. Young guys (Petey, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Mac etc) should continue to progress and we'll potentially have more young guys (Lind, Hoglander and Podkolzin) all pushing for spots/call ups.

 

We needed more puck movers on each pair. We really only had Hughes last year. Enter Nate Schmidt. I think people are really underestimating what having one of those two guys on the ice for 40-50 minutes will do.

 

Hopefully Juolevi can also do a passable third pair version of that as well. More puck movement = less time in our zone. (Our very young forwards also need more experience in supporting the D, something they've hopefully gained/can build on)

 

You'll also notice that lots of shots from the outside that the goalie can see, was likely part of our game plan (which evidently worked for the most part).

 

As for the goaltending, I'm not particularly concerned. One more year experienced Demko and a Clark rejuvenated Holtby (Holtby's play only went south when his goalie coach left for the NYI's) is just fine.

 

What team doesn't have a lot of questions? Especially this year?

Lots of questions for sure but for the first time in years our top end talent isn’t the issue.  Petey, Miller, Horvat and Boeser are all bonafide top 6’ers with Pearson as a solid addition on Horvat’s wing. 
 

Hughes, Schmidt, Edler and Myers form a quality top 4.  
 

Coaching plus overall team chemistry and leadership are in a good place.  
 

That’s a lot more certainty at the most important places than we’ve had in years. 
 

I agree the big “question” is in net... but I’d be pretty surprised if Demko and Holtby have a “bad” year.  It might not be as spectacular as Marky was.  I think the narrative that unless we get lights out goaltending or we’re screwed is overstated.

 

I agree what could mitigate a drop off in net is the team D we saw in the playoffs carrying over.  That plus increased possession could very well leave us ahead from last year even if Holtby / Demko don’t challenge for the Vezina.
 

The rest of the questions are peripheral ones.. 

 

How well will rookie D like Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty play?
 

Can Benn have a bounce back year?

Who plays with Horvat and Pearson?

 

..and the bottom 6...

 

Can Sutter stay healthy?

 

Can Roussel bounce back to pre knee injury form?

 

Can Gaudette and / or Virtanen take the next step? 
 

Can Hoglander make a splash? 

How will MacEwen fare in a full season? 
 

Will Hawryluk make an impact? 
 

Will Motte build on his playoff performance? 
 

Tons of questions, but still a lot of opportunity for positives. 

[Gollumpus]

28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

How? We basically never had both Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup last year and that's our only real 'loss'. Young guys (Petey, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Mac etc) should continue to progress and we'll potentially have more young guys (Lind, Hoglander and Podkolzin) all pushing for spots/call ups.

 

We needed more puck movers on each pair. We really only had Hughes last year. Enter Nate Schmidt. I think people are really underestimating what having one of those two guys on the ice for 40-50 minutes will do.

 

Hopefully Juolevi can also do a passable third pair version of that as well. More puck movement = less time in our zone. (Our very young forwards also need more experience in supporting the D, something they've hopefully gained/can build on)

 

You'll also notice that lots of shots from the outside that the goalie can see, was likely part of our game plan (which evidently worked for the most part).

 

As for the goaltending, I'm not particularly concerned. One more year experienced Demko and a Clark rejuvenated Holtby (Holtby's play only went south when his goalie coach left for the NYI's) is just fine.

 

What team doesn't have a lot of questions? Especially this year?

Well, according to some, every other team except the Canucks.

 

                                       regards,  G.

[aGENT]

40 minutes ago, Gollumpus said:

Well, according to some, every other team except the Canucks.

 

                                       regards,  G.

indeed.

 

Hell, the two cup final teams have a load of questions! I'm just fine being in that company lol

[Sean Monahan]

2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Top 4 D is just as good if not a little better. 
 

Forward group on paper is worse. Another question mark there too. Does Petey take another step? Etc etc. 
 

Goaltending is questionable as is our team defense. Marky had to bail us out too many times. Not sure what needs to change team D wise, we just weren’t good enough at times and relied a lot on our G who was our MVP for a good reason. 
 

We’re questionable in every aspect. A lot of things that are unanswered need to go right.  Hence my open-mindedness, partially due to our division being weird as well. 

I don’t see how the forward group is worse. Really all that was a net loss is Leivo considering what I said before about Boeser and Toffoli never playing at the same time. I don’t see how Leivo’s really all that much of a loss, especially because we likely see another step out of a guy like Petey and hopefully get another gear (even just a small one) out of Bo and Boeser. Leivo’s a solid enough depth guy but he’s definitely replaceable. I’m not worried about that. 
 

I think the top 4 D is definitely better. Schmidt is a very, very clear upgrade on a 31 year old Tanev. He’s a very clear upgrade on a 27 year old Tanev even. The issues with our D will be the lack of depth, but the top 4 is a very clear improvement IMO. Hughes will likely take another step with the development curve we’ve seen from him thus far. 
 

 

But it likely all means nothing without an improved team D structure. Marky was arguably our best/most important player last year. If we take a step back this year it will (IMO) be because of our goaltending, not the forwards or D. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

6 hours ago, PistolPete13 said:

I haven’t seen any predictions that the Canucks are winning the division. Many seem to be saying that the Canucks have a chance to make the playoffs, if........

 

Since you have now zeroed in on the Leafs. Why not make your bet about who will finish higher, the Canucks or the Leafs? 
 

I originally said that the Oilers, Leafs and Flames were likely to be better than the Nucks. People obviously disagreed. One would think that mtl, win, and ottawa are not beating out either of the aforementioned 4 teams. Therefore, if the Nucks are better than the Leafs, Flames and Oilers, people are picking them to win the division.

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don’t see how the forward group is worse. Really all that was a net loss is Leivo considering what I said before about Boeser and Toffoli never playing at the same time. I don’t see how Leivo’s really all that much of a loss, especially because we likely see another step out of a guy like Petey and hopefully get another gear (even just a small one) out of Bo and Boeser. Leivo’s a solid enough depth guy but he’s definitely replaceable. I’m not worried about that. 
 

I think the top 4 D is definitely better. Schmidt is a very, very clear upgrade on a 31 year old Tanev. He’s a very clear upgrade on a 27 year old Tanev even. The issues with our D will be the lack of depth, but the top 4 is a very clear improvement IMO. Hughes will likely take another step with the development curve we’ve seen from him thus far. 
 

 

But it likely all means nothing without an improved team D structure. Marky was arguably our best/most important player last year. If we take a step back this year it will (IMO) be because of our goaltending, not the forwards or D. 

And we only had Leivo for 36 games last year. 

[Sean Monahan]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

And we only had Leivo for 36 games last year. 

Didn’t think it was half a season but didn’t want to say it without fact checking and didn’t feel like fact checking. 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

How? We basically never had both Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup last year and that's our only real 'loss'. Young guys (Petey, Horvat, Boeser, Virtanen, Gaudette, Mac etc) should continue to progress and we'll potentially have more young guys (Lind, Hoglander and Podkolzin) all pushing for spots/call ups.

 

We needed more puck movers on each pair. We really only had Hughes last year. Enter Nate Schmidt. I think people are really underestimating what having one of those two guys on the ice for 40-50 minutes will do.

 

Hopefully Juolevi can also do a passable third pair version of that as well. More puck movement = less time in our zone. (Our very young forwards also need more experience in supporting the D, something they've hopefully gained/can build on)

 

You'll also notice that lots of shots from the outside that the goalie can see, was likely part of our game plan (which evidently worked for the most part).

 

As for the goaltending, I'm not particularly concerned. One more year experienced Demko and a Clark rejuvenated Holtby (Holtby's play only went south when his goalie coach left for the NYI's) is just fine.

 

What team doesn't have a lot of questions? Especially this year?

 I tried to imply that we're worse than the roster we ended with. The roster that struggled vs Vegas. That better?

 

I don't think one player is gonna change the dynamic of how we play team D overall. Simply put we need a lot of other things to go right. A lot more things than most teams given the circumstances.

 

I think people underestimate how important our goaltending was throughout last season and in the playoffs. We gave up a lot of scoring chances. we were 4th last in 5v5 Scoring chances for %(3rd last overall in all strengths), meaning we gave up more chances than we created. Marky was robbed of a Vezina. I also believe that there was a good chance that we don't make the playoffs if the season didn't end since at that point the amount of chances we were giving up caught up to us with Markstrom hurt and Demko struggling to compensate.

 

Unlike the Leafs we don't compensate by having an insane offense that generates more chances than it gives up. Markstrom compensated for most of that with some stellar play and our offense helped out from time to time.

 

Demko/Holtby are the probably the biggest question mark out of any team in Canada. A lot rides on them and you can't even begin to presume anything with them given the lack of substance to go by and if our team doesn't play better in front of them defensively then they'll be in for a rough time.

 

Not many teams have as many questions surrounding them as the Canucks do right now.

 

There's a lot of presuming and hoping things go a certain way. Like you say you're not worried about the goaltending or thinking that one player will change the way our team plays D when he hasn't played yet after what I have said in regards to those things. Hoping our youngsters step up. I recommend being a bit more open-minded. We've replaced key pieces with uncertainty in almost every position while other teams haven't lost as much as us and made gains(more or less) over the off-season instead of losses(understandbly) like us.

 

I am not trying to be doom/gloom or a negative nancy. I hope this is understood.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don’t see how the forward group is worse. Really all that was a net loss is Leivo considering what I said before about Boeser and Toffoli never playing at the same time. I don’t see how Leivo’s really all that much of a loss, especially because we likely see another step out of a guy like Petey and hopefully get another gear (even just a small one) out of Bo and Boeser. Leivo’s a solid enough depth guy but he’s definitely replaceable. I’m not worried about that. 
 

I think the top 4 D is definitely better. Schmidt is a very, very clear upgrade on a 31 year old Tanev. He’s a very clear upgrade on a 27 year old Tanev even. The issues with our D will be the lack of depth, but the top 4 is a very clear improvement IMO. Hughes will likely take another step with the development curve we’ve seen from him thus far. 
 

 

But it likely all means nothing without an improved team D structure. Marky was arguably our best/most important player last year. If we take a step back this year it will (IMO) be because of our goaltending, not the forwards or D. 

Was going by what we ended the season with initially in my head.

 

Team D and Goaltending are the biggest question marks we face. Not sure why we struggled as much as we did last year in front of our goalies. We look like we have enough talent to be a middle of the pack team defensively at least but we give up chances like Halloween candy.

 

IMO we face more uncertainty than most other teams. Should be interesting to see how things unfold.

[TNucks1]

louie with a comeback season, boook it.

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don’t see how the forward group is worse. Really all that was a net loss is Leivo considering what I said before about Boeser and Toffoli never playing at the same time. I don’t see how Leivo’s really all that much of a loss, especially because we likely see another step out of a guy like Petey and hopefully get another gear (even just a small one) out of Bo and Boeser. Leivo’s a solid enough depth guy but he’s definitely replaceable. I’m not worried about that. 
 

I think the top 4 D is definitely better. Schmidt is a very, very clear upgrade on a 31 year old Tanev. He’s a very clear upgrade on a 27 year old Tanev even. The issues with our D will be the lack of depth, but the top 4 is a very clear improvement IMO. Hughes will likely take another step with the development curve we’ve seen from him thus far. 
 

 

But it likely all means nothing without an improved team D structure. Marky was arguably our best/most important player last year. If we take a step back this year it will (IMO) be because of our goaltending, not the forwards or D. 

Lose a Leivo, add a MacEwen, I'll take that swap. Throw in a Hawlyruk and we have solid bottom 6 depth with several vying for a top 6 spot.

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 I tried to imply that we're worse than the roster we ended with. The roster that struggled vs Vegas. That better?

Toffoli was playing hobbled, on one leg... So no, still not really accurate (and moving goalposts). And again, most teams have had to make sacrifices to their lineup with Covid. Wing is literally where we have both the most current, and prospect depth. He was a luxury we couldn't afford. We're no worse at F than last year.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I don't think one player is gonna change the dynamic of how we play team D overall.

IMO, you're wrong. Schmidt is game changing for our top 4. We will now have the ability to have either him or Hughes on the ice for near 50 minutes a game with elite, first pair puck movement. That is not remotely a small thing.

 

If Juolevi can do something similarly positive, at a third pair level, like that on our final pairing, we're absolutely laughing. If we can add Hamonic as well, we're laughing.

 

Add yes, hopefully the young forwards continue their development of defensive support.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Simply put we need a lot of other things to go right. A lot more things than most teams given the circumstances.

Again, don't see how we're different than most any other team in that regard. That is not unique to the Canucks.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I think people underestimate how important our goaltending was throughout last season and in the playoffs. We gave up a lot of scoring chances. we were 4th last in 5v5 Scoring chances for %(3rd last overall in all strengths), meaning we gave up more chances than we created. Marky was robbed of a Vezina. I also believe that there was a good chance that we don't make the playoffs if the season didn't end since at that point the amount of chances we were giving up caught up to us with Markstrom hurt and Demko struggling to compensate.

Good goaltending is important. Good thing we have two good goaltenders and one of the best goalie coaches in the world. A LOT of teams have nothing like that luxury. It's one of the things I'm least worried about. And again, giving up shots from the outside, that the goalie can see is part of our game plan. I'll happily give up 3 shots to the outside, that he can see, over 2 shots in close and screened, any day. You seem to view that as a coaching flaw. I do not.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Not many teams have as many questions surrounding them as the Canucks do right now.

Simply not true.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I recommend being a bit more open-minded.

Same to you

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

We've replaced key pieces with uncertainty in almost every position while other teams haven't lost as much as us and made gains(more or less) over the off-season instead of losses(understandbly) like us.

You really haven't been able to demonstrate that. Our F's apparently 'got worse' while basically being exactly the same, one more year experienced/stronger and more ready prospects pushing for spots.

 

Our D 'got worse' by replacing an inferior Tanev with a better Schmidt. For all the uncertainty with our third pair and beyond, there's also loads of promise. And again, there's still the Hamonic possibility.

 

Holtby, up until probably last year, would have easily been considered the superior goalie over Markstrom. Demko has been a consistently well rated prospect and thrived at every level as he's risen to. We have one of the top goalie coaches in the world. No, I'm not particularly worried.

 

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I am not trying to be doom/gloom or a negative nancy. I hope this is understood.

Nor an I simply 'waving pom poms'.

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Lots of questions for sure but for the first time in years our top end talent isn’t the issue.  Petey, Miller, Horvat and Boeser are all bonafide top 6’ers with Pearson as a solid addition on Horvat’s wing. 
 

Hughes, Schmidt, Edler and Myers form a quality top 4.  
 

Coaching plus overall team chemistry and leadership are in a good place.  
 

That’s a lot more certainty at the most important places than we’ve had in years. 
 

I agree the big “question” is in net... but I’d be pretty surprised if Demko and Holtby have a “bad” year.  It might not be as spectacular as Marky was.  I think the narrative that unless we get lights out goaltending or we’re screwed is overstated.

 

I agree what could mitigate a drop off in net is the team D we saw in the playoffs carrying over.  That plus increased possession could very well leave us ahead from last year even if Holtby / Demko don’t challenge for the Vezina.
 

The rest of the questions are peripheral ones.. 

 

How well will rookie D like Juolevi, Rathbone or Rafferty play?
 

Can Benn have a bounce back year?

Who plays with Horvat and Pearson?

 

..and the bottom 6...

 

Can Sutter stay healthy?

 

Can Roussel bounce back to pre knee injury form?

 

Can Gaudette and / or Virtanen take the next step? 
 

Can Hoglander make a splash? 

How will MacEwen fare in a full season? 
 

Will Hawryluk make an impact? 
 

Will Motte build on his playoff performance? 
 

Tons of questions, but still a lot of opportunity for positives. 

 

4 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

Well, according to some, every other team except the Canucks.

 

                                       regards,  G.

 

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

indeed.

 

Hell, the two cup final teams have a load of questions! I'm just fine being in that company lol

ish @ilduce39 though the questions I am talking about are more broad and significant than those ones though. That was the point I was making, although it didn't seem to find 

 

IMO just a lot of uncertainty surrounding how the team D will be next year given how it was last year with now losing the G that compensated for that team D. Whether the offense can or needs to step up to compensate(like the Leafs does)

 

Can Demko/Holtby be good enough to compensate for the D? Will they need to? It's some of the biggest question out of all Canadian teams. 

 

@Gollumpus Well, according to me us more so than the other teams. I can't say I speak for those people though.

 

@aGENT The only question we cared about with them though back then is what TBL was gonna do with Cernak. 

[Sean Monahan]

44 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Was going by what we ended the season with initially in my head.

 

Team D and Goaltending are the biggest question marks we face. Not sure why we struggled as much as we did last year in front of our goalies. We look like we have enough talent to be a middle of the pack team defensively at least but we give up chances like Halloween candy.

 

IMO we face more uncertainty than most other teams. Should be interesting to see how things unfold.

Yeah I’d definitely say we’re a relative wildcard. Best case scenario we get great goaltending and they’re a top 3 team in the division. Worst case the goaltending falters and  they finish 4th-6th, as I figure they’ve got enough talent to keep them out of the basement unless the goaltending is an absolute disaster. 
 

 

Personally I figure they’re likely to get average goaltending, maybe a little above average. It remains to be seen how far average goaltending can take them. 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, Sean Monahan said:

Yeah I’d definitely say we’re a relative wildcard. Best case scenario we get great goaltending and they’re a top 3 team in the division. Worst case the goaltending falters and  they finish 4th-6th, as I figure they’ve got enough talent to keep them out of the basement unless the goaltending is an absolute disaster. 
 

 

Personally I figure they’re likely to get average goaltending, maybe a little above average. It remains to be seen how far average goaltending can take them. 

Maybe Petey takes it up to Mackinnon level like I could see happening within the next few years and our offense more than compensates. Just a lot of uncertainty and I don't like to lean too much in the realms of positivity or even negativity when things are too unclear. Just looking at it plainly as best as I can until the season starts and these questions are answered.

 

It's definitely more of a glass half-empty outlook that probably won't be shared with many here but I am still gonna enjoy what I got in this glass either way. I'd like to think I have set my self up not to be disappointed, instead either surprised or perhaps what I would expect given the circumstances.

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, TNucks1 said:

louie with a comeback season, boook it.

He will smash the concession stands from the press box no doubt