theo5789 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: LOL Naw, I was just poking you in the ribs, to see if I could get a squawk Yes, I do believe Roslovic sounds a little entitled, but that could be frustration both in deployment and contract He has played more minutes than Gaudette. Offensively, he has produced less than Gaudette, and yet he feels he deserves more minutes? What kind of payout is he looking for? If it is cheap, he would be signed already. What has he done to garner more? 15 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: But Roslovic has played some 1st line PP, and has played 2nd line as well And yet still hasn't produced better offensive numbers than Gaudette. 15 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: He is alot heavier and he is fast (faster than Gaudette, who can not fight through a check) If going from 170 to 187 is that critical, surely the team could get him on a workout plan to put on that muscle. With that said, Gaudette has actually been entrusted to play more of the center role whereas Roslovic seems to have been slotted more onto the wing. We will see if Gaudette plays that role and how he will perform. 15 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: In saying that, I love Gaudette, and maybe Jimmy is right and we should offer something else But Roslovic has value and he will not come cheap (IMO), and IMHO, he would cost more than Gaudette on the open market We will see what Roslovic will go for if he does get traded. But we won't know what the market would be for Gaudette as we actually want to keep him and he hasn't requested out. Only rumour with him involved was in the PK Subban potential rumours in which we said no to. 15 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Sorry fellows, but nobody other than Gaudette can change my mind on this one, but to do so, he has to either play RW well enough to play 2nd line RW (which he has not to date), or improve his F/O and plus/minus, while maintaining or improving his point totals........as 3rd line center And as SCSA says......that is the bottom line! I'd like to see Roslovic have a greater number of faceoffs to see if he really is a "better" faceoff man or perhaps more reps would expose him further in that area. +/- is notoriously known for its team aspect. Now he isn't facing the tough competition, so I would also like to see some improvement in this area, but Roslovic started last season playing alongside Wheeler until he was demoted which could've bumped his numbers up early there. Roslovic complained about his minutes in the 2018-2019 season as well and he rightfully had a gripe as he was produced well with 4th line minutes. He didn't really show much more after getting more minutes this season and now he wants out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: PS........... For us to be a ligit contender, we need to be strong down the middle.....aka Tampa we are not there yet People have to remember how long we have before Horvat is 30 years of age.......hint, it won't take long So, "IF" Gaudette is not that guy...who is? and Where is he? Don't know, but Roslovic won't be "that guy" either. He would be a decent winger option, but we also have plenty of young options coming in that could do that same if Gaudette doesn't do so himself at wing. We have internal options like Jasek who has shown well as a two way center. Michaelis was recently signed who could be a two way center. We have Costmar who looks like he could be a bottom 6 center (being used by Sweden in critical defensive situations like 5 on 3 PK and taking draws while protecting late leads, etc). Linus Karlsson is putting up decent offensive numbers. If these guys aren't ready fast enough, then we look for short term stop gaps through free agency. This is also why we have been insistent on keeping Sutter (to be strong down the middle of Gaudette cannot establish himself in the 3C role) despite many wanting to dump him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: This is a relevant comment to the Roslovic vs Gaudette arguement as I find it funny how so many people crap all over Jake Virtanen who had more points and a better plus/minus than Gaudette , who is being talked about as a 2nd line RWer , when in actual fact Jakes numbers were 1st and 2nd line numbers So to take this to the Gaudette arguement.....Adam just dose not show that well....and yes you can get alot of points, but if your check gets more you loose the game...........the spread between Gaudette and Roslovic is 11 +/- ...that is a big difference....... and to take that one step further, if they had played the same amount of games (77) it would have been around a 15 +/- difference That is alot! So wouldn't it make some logical sense to have Gaudette on a line with Horvat and Pearson where they can handle the defensive coverage (even Petey and Miller would help him as well) which allows Gaudette to be more free offensively? Gaudette has a slight edge in PPG compared to Jake (although I've been on the boat to give Jake a chance in the top 6 as well). I agree that too many people crap on Virtanen, but that isn't me. Plus as I said, +/- is a team stat. When Roslovic was playing minimal 4th line minutes, he was a negative +/- player as well similarly to Gaudette. Then he got more minutes and saw his +/- go up on a more "superior" team compared to the Canucks. Gaudette was told to work on his PK game and if we felt he was atrocious defensively, we wouldn't even consider getting him to work in that area but rather to just work on his overall defensive game instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, theo5789 said: Sure so why trade Gaudette for a lateral move when Gaudette wants to be here and signed a cheap deal to actually prove himself rather than wanting to request out (which is the point I'm trying to get across)? Nevermind us actually paying more to get much of the same. Who says I want Roslovic? I initially said we already have a Roslovic in Gaudette. And with our top 6 depth is we won't even have an opening for him. He clearly wants a bigger role we can't give it to him. I'm just saying Gaudette isn't a good center right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Who says I want Roslovic? I initially said we already have a Roslovic in Gaudette. And with our top 6 depth is we won't even have an opening for him. He clearly wants a bigger role we can't give it to him. I'm just saying Gaudette isn't a good center right now. Ah well you replied to a comment in the middle of a discussion of swapping Gaudette and Roslovic. I agree that Gaudette needs to be better on faceoffs. There's no doubt about that and likely is one of the reasons we rather hang onto Sutter than to buy him out which could've saved us some cap space to work with this year. However at least we have given Gaudette more opportunity to try and develop him in that area (as opposed to someone like Roslovic). We must see the potential there to try and work things out, plus the request from management that he works on his PK game. He may not be a great center, but it would appear, we see more of a center from him than Winnipeg sees Roslovic as one. I think we have a top 6 spot that Roslovic could win if he earns it (but has a lot of internal competition for that spot right now as well which includes Gaudette). However I get the feeling he's the type that wants it handed to him rather than working for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Rush17 said: This kids legit. Would be fantastic on our 2nd line as a winger. Who's place is he going to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 He is a Columbus kid. Would be a coup for the Blue Jackets for them to bring the hometown kid home. I expect the Blue Jackets to be in on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Roslovic, my take, is a hard working skilled forward. But unremarkable as an athlete. As much as you can say that about any NHL player. He does not stand out. He is neither strong enough to punish. Not fast enough? Nor agile enough to be a game breaker. Ehlers, for example, cannot be guarded with his agility. Connor, his speed. Laine is huge, can dangle with guys hanging on him, And has one of the worlds best shots. Wheeler is a beast. Winnipeg clearly did not think he could be their 2C with Little out? Top 6 forwards need to have game breaking skill sets or athletic ability. Chevy will wait him out... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: So wouldn't it make some logical sense to have Gaudette on a line with Horvat and Pearson where they can handle the defensive coverage (even Petey and Miller would help him as well) which allows Gaudette to be more free offensively? Gaudette has a slight edge in PPG compared to Jake (although I've been on the boat to give Jake a chance in the top 6 as well). I agree that too many people crap on Virtanen, but that isn't me. Plus as I said, +/- is a team stat. When Roslovic was playing minimal 4th line minutes, he was a negative +/- player as well similarly to Gaudette. Then he got more minutes and saw his +/- go up on a more "superior" team compared to the Canucks. Gaudette was told to work on his PK game and if we felt he was atrocious defensively, we wouldn't even consider getting him to work in that area but rather to just work on his overall defensive game instead. Much better questions and points, and I agree on your points about Gaudette playing up on RW with Bo or Pettersson But in saying that, we are probably strongest at RW......... As I said earlier. most of Virtanen's stats are 1st and 2nd line stats ....so if you think of all the players who could play there it is ridiculous Boeser, Sutter, Virtanen, Gaudette, Podkolzin, McEwen, and Lind all of who "Could play 1/2 ???? Maybe But maybe you are right! No one else has really taken 2nd RW and ran with it. On another note....plus/minus is just another stat, just like analytics, just GAA and Save % who you play with, where you start, your position, how good your goaltending is, the strength of your team, are all factors None can be totally dismissed, nor can any be used as the bible....... Hey, some guys play better, playing against the best, while others play better off wing against certain players scratching their chin...... The point is.......if you can document it, it can become a point of discussion There was this GM recently in Arizona, who was an Analytics guru.......believed in them more than god! Used them for drafting....... I am not sure where he is now, but it is not Arizona Personally, I use the eye test, some of the standards, and a little analytics..........I have been more right than wrong, but I won't brag about my mistakes Just for the record, I would have taken Boldy or Soderstrom before Podkolzin...........But I have never been given a pay check by Benning, so what do I know! And that was totally Eye test....Arizona took Soderstrom, so again Hey, and this is to everyone...your opinions are just as valid as mine..........maybe Roslovic disappears....who knows???? Better yet.......Gaudette proves me wrong! I don't have to be right to be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 For me don’t see the point of him on the Canucks. He would be a lateral move for Gaudette- and while gaud may not reach what we need him to and be traded, why would we dump him now when he is cheap, has a great attitude and is still showing he is developing upwards. only way we dump him is if we can land a 3C that’s going to fit with the core age and also is ready now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Much better questions and points, and I agree on your points about Gaudette playing up on RW with Bo or Pettersson But in saying that, we are probably strongest at RW......... As I said earlier. most of Virtanen's stats are 1st and 2nd line stats ....so if you think of all the players who could play there it is ridiculous Boeser, Sutter, Virtanen, Gaudette, Podkolzin, McEwen, and Lind all of who "Could play 1/2 ???? Maybe But maybe you are right! No one else has really taken 2nd RW and ran with it. I just think there's a lot of internal competition on RW, which I agree with you. Gaudette is better trying to be the 3C, but if he can get chemistry on wing, then why not? There's a spot for the taking. Roslovic has mostly been utilized as a RW as well, so I just don't see how we are better off with him long term. Trading for him and using Gaudette is just a trade for the sake of making a trade. His size and speed aspect is covered by someone like Virtanen already as well. With his center ability in question like Gaudette, he's really redundant here. Not to say I wouldn't want to give him a shot here, but we would have to be able to get him cheap for it to make sense for us. 5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: On another note....plus/minus is just another stat, just like analytics, just GAA and Save % who you play with, where you start, your position, how good your goaltending is, the strength of your team, are all factors None can be totally dismissed, nor can any be used as the bible....... A lot of context needs to be added for the +/- stat. It's not as simple as he just needs to improve that stat. I far too often here that stat being used as a negative while ignoring context. Now with Gaudette, he certainly needs to work on his two way game, but if it indeed is a major flaw to his game, then he would be better suited playing alongside defensively responsible players. 5 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: Hey, some guys play better, playing against the best, while others play better off wing against certain players scratching their chin...... The point is.......if you can document it, it can become a point of discussion There was this GM recently in Arizona, who was an Analytics guru.......believed in them more than god! Used them for drafting....... I am not sure where he is now, but it is not Arizona Personally, I use the eye test, some of the standards, and a little analytics..........I have been more right than wrong, but I won't brag about my mistakes Just for the record, I would have taken Boldy or Soderstrom before Podkolzin...........But I have never been given a pay check by Benning, so what do I know! And that was totally Eye test....Arizona took Soderstrom, so again Hey, and this is to everyone...your opinions are just as valid as mine..........maybe Roslovic disappears....who knows???? Better yet.......Gaudette proves me wrong! I don't have to be right to be happy! No one has to be right or wrong, we have our opinions and are having a discussion. I haven't been convinced that Roslovic would be a better long term solution here. All I'm hearing are the knocks to Gaudette's game, most of which I agree with, but I'm not really hearing how Roslovic is the better option. As a lot of us feel he's a lateral move at best and while there's slight pros and cons either way, I'll take the character guy over the entitled one any day of the week and that takes precedent over any minor tweaks to the lineup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Provost said: Little will be on LTIR for the season, so think that means plenty of cap space for Winnipeg true, but would they want to match an offer sheet for a guy that doesn't want to be there, vs. keeping that space open for a potential TDL deal? I don't think Chevy matches an offer sheet that gets him a 2nd. But you'd want to be sure the 2nd was worth it, seems like most people would be happy to make that as a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: true, but would they want to match an offer sheet for a guy that doesn't want to be there, vs. keeping that space open for a potential TDL deal? I don't think Chevy matches an offer sheet that gets him a 2nd. But you'd want to be sure the 2nd was worth it, seems like most people would be happy to make that as a trade. That seems like a worse deal for the receiving team. Why overpay a guy AND give up a 2nd? That just costs your cap for no reason. The value in a guy like this is because he would be cheap and “could” play higher in the lineup than his contract pays. Getting in the $2.1- $4 million range is overpaying him. He is only of those $1.25- $1.5 million guys on a 1-2 year show me contract. Edited December 30, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 14 hours ago, Provost said: Well we do need help on our 2nd line RW. I remain unconvinced that Jake will be able to step up and fill that role. The Jets have cap space with Little not playing this season (I believe). If they took a bunch of cap from us we can swap Virtanen and Rafferty for Roslovic We could then fill a hole on RD to upgrade on Benn. why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, stawns said: why? Several years of history and inconsistent play? Being trusted less, and played lower in the lineup than guys who don't belong in the NHL like Loui Eriksson? All that suggests Jake is a top 6 winger is about 6 weeks of stellar play in the middle of last season where he was almost a PPG player. He was bad before that, bad after that, and bad in the playoffs. It takes more than a few weeks on a heater to make me ignore the rest of his history of play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Provost said: That seems like a worse deal for the receiving team. Why overpay a guy AND give up a 2nd? That just costs your cap for no reason. The value in a guy like this is because he would be cheap and “could” play higher in the lineup than his contract pays. Getting in the $2.1- $4 million range is overpaying him. He is only of those $1.25- $1.5 million guys on a 1-2 year show me contract. well thats the rub. Some on here seem to rank him higher, I don't know personally as I haven't watched him enough. But if thats all he is, I wouldn't trade Gaudette for him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) His style of game reminds me much of Jared McCann. Naturally a center when drafted and likely is more prolific in that spot, but the inability to be good in the faceoff dot, average strength, and average defensive two way game sorta impedes them to be used there. I've always liked Roslovic, has an allusiveness and slipperiness to his game when he has the puck. Has good acceleration and overall agility to be a very creative and mesmerizing player at times, but a lot of the times he seems like McCann very unremarkable as well. He spent a lot of time on the fourth line this past season spending time at center and the wing between Mason Appleton and Matthieu Perrault. At times he was elevated when the Jets were without Bryan Little on the 2nd line but his lack of consistency led to them electing to use Blake Wheeler instead until they acquired Cody Eakin last trade deadline. I'd kick tires on a deal, but ultimately I look at him and he really doesn't move the needle. Just another middle six guy who can play up and down the lineup but no real bottom line to his game. Jets likely want another top four dman, I just dont see us being a logical trade partner. I could see St Louis being interested considering they also have Vincent Dunn unsigned as well. Certainly does compile highlights. Edited December 30, 2020 by CRAZY_4_NAZZY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 He'd be a lateral move at best for us. Could he do some thing slightly better than some players we have here already? Perhaps, but he's not going to move the needle on his own. I'm more interested in seeing what our forward group and prospects can do. If we're going to add a new body I'd rather it be a D like Hamonic. Or I'd look at the ufa pool and see who could be had for straight cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I like the player (as a player that is), but if he doesn't want to play in Winnipeg = he's dead to me. And unlikely to get what he wants here either - assuming that would have to do with a track to a top 6C role..as a winger conversion here - don't really see the point of a relatively lateral move. Earlier I may have thought a trip to Montreal might make sense but Montreal has made a number of moves that probably preclude that at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: We need a young 3rd line center, who can grow with the team I don't see Gaudette as that But in saying that.....I am not like gaw gaw over Roslovic..just more so than Gaudette That might seem to make sense, but I'm not sure it does - for natural timeline reasons. As the "team" - and by that I'm assuming you mean young core - develops/emerges - the idea of having a young 3C grow alongside them - isn't all that realistic, particularly for teams that seek to 'remain competitive'. What 'we' need in the present - is what 'we' have - a couple veteran 'foundational' centers that enable/complement the young top 6. The idea of having young depth centers integrated at the same time - is more of a lottery / 'full rebuild' type concept that doesn't necessarily fit here - and even in other contexts I'm not sure it serves many young players to handle those kind of minutes (prematurely). Players like Horvat or Couturier are rare.... It'll be more possible/realistic imo to integrate a young center into the bottom six - in the future as the young forwards in the top 6 develop. Not just EP or Boeser, but they arguably have another waive of wingers to integrate.... Until then the team needs veterans in those key hard minutes center spots imo...where they can afford to shed are veteran wingers (not easy in this climate where they can be signed for a song....) In terms of two-way centers of the future...it may seem the team is thin there (particularly after the Toffoli deal)....but if you're watching the WJC at all, check out Costmar. It's harder to project young two-way forwards imo - the development trajectory to play these kinds of roles at the NHL is longer and arguably more difficult / akin to projecting young defensemen....but Karlsson also has potential imo. Edited December 30, 2020 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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