Alflives Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, mll said: Talking of Vancouver. Can't imagine any team claiming him. Vancouver doesn't have to waive him to suspend him. Team approved absence. Full 3M on the cap if declared as non-roster. 1.125M less if demoted to the AHL. Refusal to report. Suspension - there is no cap hit regardless of whether he refused to report to the AHL or the NHL. I’m still not fully understanding about the cap. He clears waivers, and is sent to Abbotsford. (We clear a bit over 1 mil.). He doesn’t report. We suspend him. At that point, after he’s suspended for not reporting, we can clear his full cap? Or do we need to terminate his contract to clear the full cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Provost said: He could be on LTIR for mental health reasons due to stress from a family situation. There is clearly some sort of issue involved where he does t want to go on LTIR, doesn’t want to enroll in the player assistance program, doesn’t want to opt out of the season… but also does t want to report to the team. In that case a suspension until he reports would be the normal course of action. Exposing the guy on waivers needs an explanation we do have a reason, cap savings. Seems pretty simple. Benning is supporting Hamonic in whatever the situation is, so ideas around suspension etc aren't on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Alflives said: I’m still not fully understanding about the cap. He clears waivers, and is sent to Abbotsford. (We clear a bit over 1 mil.). He doesn’t report. We suspend him. At that point, after he’s suspended for not reporting, we can clear his full cap? Or do we need to terminate his contract to clear the full cap? It's a similar situation as Winnipeg with Byfuglien. He refused to report so they suspended him and were able to clear his cap hit. They then mutually agreed to terminate the contract. If a player is assigned to the AHL and refuses to report - he's not fulfilling the terms of his contract so he can be suspended and his cap hit is temporarily cleared till he reports. It's unclear why Hamonic is absent so he might not qualify for a material breach of contract to have his contract terminated. If Vancouver is granting him a leave of absence - they have no reason to suspend him. Edited October 10, 2021 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, mll said: It's a similar situation as Winnipeg with Byfuglien. He refused to report so they suspended him and were able to clear his cap hit. They then mutually agreed to terminate the contract. If a player is assigned to the AHL and refuses to report - he's not fulfilling the terms of his contract so he can be suspended and his cap hit is temporarily cleared till he reports. It's unclear why Hamonic is absent so he might not qualify for a material breach of contract to have his contract terminated. If Vancouver is granting him a leave of absence - they have no reason to suspend him. That is entirely circular. A player not reporting to the NHL isn't fulfilling the terms of his contract the same as the AHL, not reason to waive him to see if he doesn't report. If they are granting him a leave of absence, then waiving him at the same time also makes no sense. He could get picked up by somewhere he doesn't want to play, it is worse than just suspending him without pay until he reports to the club. It isn't being supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Provost said: That is entirely circular. A player not reporting to the NHL isn't fulfilling the terms of his contract the same as the AHL, not reason to waive him to see if he doesn't report. If they are granting him a leave of absence, then waiving him at the same time also makes no sense. He could get picked up by somewhere he doesn't want to play, it is worse than just suspending him without pay until he reports to the club. It isn't being supportive. He is unlikely to be picked up. Which team is going to take 2x 3M cap hit on a player who hasn't reported to camp for whatever reason. A leave of absence with team approval on the NHL roster is a 3M cap hit. A leave of absence in the AHL is a 1.875M cap hit because his contract is buried. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, mll said: He is unlikely to be picked up. Which team is going to take 2x 3M cap hit on a player who hasn't reported to camp for whatever reason. A leave of absence with team approval on the NHL roster is a 3M cap hit. A leave of absence in the AHL is a 1.875M cap hit because his contract is buried. As has been covered as nauseum… for what reason would we need to save just that amount of cap space but not the whole amount? Doing this actually seems to make it harder to maximize Ferland’s LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 If Abbotsford requires all players to be vaccinated, and rumours are true that he is not, then it’s unlikely that he reports. Then wouldn’t he be suspended and we get his 3 million in cap hit? We could use another RHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said: If Abbotsford requires all players to be vaccinated, and rumours are true that he is not, then it’s unlikely that he reports. Then wouldn’t he be suspended and we get his 3 million in cap hit? We could use another RHD. Abbotsford also doesn’t play any road games in Canada until after the vaccination mandate is scheduled to come into effect on domestic air travel. So if Hamonic isn’t vaxxed, he’d be unable to play in any Abby road games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantishawk Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 the canucks require him to be vaccinated, the nhl doesn't reqiuire it, but there are severe conditions in place, so he is not in breach of his contract, i am sure that his agent has told the canucks that he will report but not be vaccinated and the canucks have told him to stay home, so he is in the best situation for him, he gets paid, doesn't have to vax, and doesn't have to leave his family, he has the canucks over a barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, mantishawk said: the canucks require him to be vaccinated, the nhl doesn't reqiuire it, but there are severe conditions in place, so he is not in breach of his contract, i am sure that his agent has told the canucks that he will report but not be vaccinated and the canucks have told him to stay home, so he is in the best situation for him, he gets paid, doesn't have to vax, and doesn't have to leave his family, he has the canucks over a barrel If there is any truth to this, he would be one selfish SOB. There is absolutely no reason for him not to be vaccinated. He’s a professional athlete who signed a contract in the best hockey league in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Geez, JB was having a great off-season and deserves better than this. When a contract is signed, a mutual understanding is in place that both sides will fulfill their side of the bargain. Between him and OJ not showing up ready to take the next step is a tough pill to swallow when the rest of the stars are aligning. Part of the business I guess but let's hope for a minor miracle in finding that diamond in the rough on the right side. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 8 hours ago, bubba6 said: exactly it frees up a spot on the big club while he figures his situation out. Couldn't you do the same with ltir but with full cap relief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Provost said: As has been covered as nauseum… for what reason would we need to save just that amount of cap space but not the whole amount? Doing this actually seems to make it harder to maximize Ferland’s LTIR. For what other reason? They don't have to waive him to suspend him if he doesn't report. Motte, Sutter, Keeper are at a minimum on IR if not LTIR to start the season. Keeper is on a 1-way so he can't go on SOIR and his contract still counts against the main cap. They are probably also signing Chiasson. Once opening rosters are set it should be possible to figure out the moves they've made to maximise LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 6 hours ago, mantishawk said: the canucks require him to be vaccinated, the nhl doesn't reqiuire it, but there are severe conditions in place, so he is not in breach of his contract, i am sure that his agent has told the canucks that he will report but not be vaccinated and the canucks have told him to stay home, so he is in the best situation for him, he gets paid, doesn't have to vax, and doesn't have to leave his family, he has the canucks over a barrel And the Canucks also wouldn't want him to report to Abbotsford if he is not vaccinated, so he doesn't even have to worry about going there either. As you say, he can just stay home and collect his full salary. The best the Canucks can get out of this situation is a bit of cap relief by burying his contract in the minors, if I understand this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said: And the Canucks also wouldn't want him to report to Abbotsford if he is not vaccinated, so he doesn't even have to worry about going there either. As you say, he can just stay home and collect his full salary. The best the Canucks can get out of this situation is a bit of cap relief by burying his contract in the minors, if I understand this right. Hamonic is such a loser if this is really what’s going on here. How could any self-respecting player intentionally stay home collecting millions and refuse to get vaccinated. Absolutely shameless. I don’t care what his daughter’s situation is - he is a safer person to be around if he is vaccinated. This guy needs his head examined. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Slegr said: If there is any truth to this, he would be one selfish SOB. There is absolutely no reason for him not to be vaccinated. He’s a professional athlete who signed a contract in the best hockey league in the world. But in the worst case scenario, he has bought into some fringe anti-vaxxer theory that tells him he would be putting his daughter more at risk if he got vaccinated (yes, there are people out there who believe that kind of thing!). In this case, his response would undoubtedly be that he is putting his daughter's health above everything, including his pay cheque and his NHL career, and some people would call him a hero. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Captain Canuck #12 said: But in the worst case scenario, he has bought into some fringe anti-vaxxer theory that tells him he would be putting his daughter more at risk if he got vaccinated (yes, there are people out there who believe that kind of thing!). In this case, his response would undoubtedly be that he is putting his daughter's health above everything, including his pay cheque and his NHL career, and some people would call him a hero. I’ve mentioned the same in previous posts, and honestly, if (and it remains an if) Hamonic isn’t vaccinated, I’d put my money on it being because he’s become convinced that he’s doing the right thing, especially for his daughter. Unfortunately, a lot of people have been duped by some really troubling misinformation, and they believe all kinds of crazy theories. Including ones that blame the vaccines for the current spread of the virus, and actually claim it’s less safe to be around vaccinated people than the unvaccinated. It’s bizarre stuff and very dangerous. But there are many out there that believe it. It doesn’t make them bad people. Or stupid people. I’ve had family members who’ve just gotten on the wrong side of social media, and the algorithms kept spoon feeding them “articles” that pushed them further and further into these fringe views and positions. These were smart, savvy, successful people. And they didn’t start out anywhere near those extremes, but just slipped gradually, and by the time anyone really noticed what was happening to them, they were too far down the rabbit hole to bring them back (and we’ve tried). It’s really frustrating. And heartbreaking. I’m not saying this is what happened to Hamonic. I really hope it’s not. Just that if we eventually learn he’s against the vaccines, I suspect this sort of thing will be the reason. Edited October 11, 2021 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepThoughts Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Nucks PR needs to make a statement on what is going on with Hamonic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabychStache Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 19 minutes ago, DeepThoughts said: Nucks PR needs to make a statement on what is going on with Hamonic. I agree. It's time for some context. Personal details aren't required, but some sort of explanation would help the fanbase try and understand what's happening. For example "Travis has requested time to be with his family as there is a pressing medical issue. Travis communicated that this may be on the horizon when he decided to sign with us in the off season. We wish the Hamonics all the best as we prepare for the season and look forward to Travis suiting up to cover Quins butt soon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 So Hamonic cleared waivers, He can now be sent to Abbotsford. Could he still play home games and Canadian team road games for the Canucks and sent to Abby when we are on the road to the USA? If he is in Abby and they play all road games in the USA he could not cross the border because he is apparently unvaxxed so wouldn't his Pay(cap hit) be suspended for those games? (Like Tyler Bertuzzi in DET) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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