Realistically - what assets could Vancouver expect in return in the Trade deadline

[iinatcc]

Another thing about Benning he shows all his cards giving the player he is trying to sign the leverage. 

 

I remember when Benning was re-signing Sutter. Benning was on record calling a Sutter a foundational player or piece. I bet you when Sutter and his agent heard that they either increased their asking price by 1 million, or added another year in his contract, or both.

[aGENT]

59 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

While I agree we have to consider, if you were the gm on another team, would you go out and seek these players? And if so, what about them would make you want to pay that much for them? 

A playoff bound team would LOVE to add guys like Sutter and Benn. Happens every year, because those teams want to add quality depth players for deep runs.

[Provost]

30 minutes ago, aGENT said:

A playoff bound team would LOVE to add guys like Sutter and Benn. Happens every year, because those teams want to add quality depth players for deep runs.

Heck, in his last year Eriksson might even get a modest return at the deadline (if a team has some space for the pro rated amount of his salary, which would be way less).

Once you largely take salary out of the equation, some of our players look better. 

Veteran defensive stability is what team covet at the deadline... 

 

Sutter likely has neutral to negative value right now, and is worth around a 3rd round pick at the deadline...then may only command a $1 year, $1 million contract offer in the offseason.   it is just the way it has always been.  Doesn’t mean it makes sense...

[Nathancanuck]

I have to shake my head if people think we actually get a return for Baertschi.. I'm pretty sure we tried to pay (a reasonable price like a 5th or b prospect) to get rid of him

so we could have signed Tanev or Toffoli.. I would be shocked if we didn't try this. So Baertschi is not going anywhere and will either retire or go back to Switzerland after this season..

 

Also people overvalue late round picks a lot.

 

 

[Patel Bure]

16 hours ago, iinatcc said:

So it seems pretty clear Vancouver is going to be the #6 team in the North Division thus missing the playoffs.

 

This normally means it's possible for Vancouver to trade players who are in their last year of their contract. 

 

From the list Canucks have Brandon Sutter, Tanner Pearson, Adam Gaudette, Alex Edler, and Jordie Benn 

Naturally I doubt Edler will accept a trade but Benning could convince Edler otherwise. Gaudette  is probably someone Vancouver will still try to develop. And Vancouver should to look to resign Pearson, if only to keep Horvat happy.

 

So, realistically, that probably leaves Sutter and Benn. 

 

Sutter is a solid 4th line center but with an expensive contract and Benn is a bottom 6 d-man. 

Both could prove useful for any team looking for a cup run. 

 

So based on past trade deadlines here's what looks possible.

 

Brandon Sutter - Has a modified NTC and has an expensive contract. Canucks management will really need to convince Sutter to waive his NTC and will probably have to retain 50% of the cap. Of course even if Canucks retain 50% that's still $2.187 Million so it's still quite high. And is there a cup contending team that has a 2 million contract they want to rid of for Sutter? Looking at past trade deadlines it looks like a Vancouver, at most, can get a 4th round pick but probably a 5th is more realistic. But the if Benning is still GM and his trade history Canucks would be lucky to get a 6th.

 

Jordie Benn - Depth Defense is never a bad thing for teams looking for a cup run. And Benn was already traded in a previous TDL with the team getting a 4th and a player. I guess with his trade history and seeing lesser D-men fetching teams a 5th and better D-Men fetching a 3rd ... so I say it's somewhere in the middle with and maybe he fetches a 4th Round Pick.

 

Alexander Edler - A player I keep on wrapping my head around but this trade is almost impossible I think. Could Benning convince Edler to waive his NMC? Would Edler be ok to leave his family especially if it means having to cross the boarder (especially in the playoffs)? This is where Benning can prove his creativeness I think. That said based I can't imagine teams parting anything higher than a 3rd for Edler. Maybe Benning can start a bidding war with teams in the North Division since some playoff teams look to need defense like Toronto, Winnipeg, Edmonton w/o having to quarantine (though the rules could always change and maybe by then it's easier for people in the US to cross Canada). But these Canadian teams are also have no cap space. But if there's a time for Benning to prove he can be a good trade negotiator this is it. 

 

The only thing that’s clear in this thread is that you give up too easily.  Is it possible for the Canucks to finish 6th or below?  Absolutely.  It is also possible that we figure out solutions to our problems and make the necessary adjustments.   If the Canucks look like they’ll miss the playoffs however, then I do think we should be able to get pretty decent value for Pearson, Benn, and Edler (I don’t think the Canucks have any intention of bringing either player back next season and so this might also be brought up to Edler).   Sutter might get you something but I doubt it.

 

Virtanen will likely be able to fetch another similar aged reclamation project that could use a change of scenery (I.e. Bennett).

[Patel Bure]

49 minutes ago, aGENT said:

A playoff bound team would LOVE to add guys like Sutter and Benn. Happens every year, because those teams want to add quality depth players for deep runs.

Sutter with retention is definitely doable.   Benn should be able to get some attention as well.    

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Nathancanuck said:

I have to shake my head if people think we actually get a return for Baertschi.. I'm pretty sure we tried to pay (a reasonable price like a 5th or b prospect) to get rid of him

so we could have signed Tanev or Toffoli.. I would be shocked if we didn't try this. So Baertschi is not going anywhere and will either retire or go back to Switzerland after this season..

 

Also people overvalue late round picks a lot.

 

 

As per the above posts... which are good to actually read.

 

The value of a player is 100% dependent on timing.

 

We could have easily moved Baertschi if he had a $1 million salary.  At the deadline, salary and cap implications are largely removed as most money will have been paid out.  That entirely changes the value of players on the trade market.

 

Literally every year depth players get inflated values at the deadline.  A mid/late round pick is like a lottery ticket, it probably isn’t going to turn into an NHL player... but gives you an extra chance.

 

Your 2nd point is literally the opposite position from the first part of your post.

 

Nobody is overvaluing mid/late round picks at all.  That is what our players are worth and why teams would be willing to spend those picks just for playoff depth and injury insurance.
 

You can’t say that our players are overvalued, but the picks they would command aren’t worth any value.  Those are contradictory.

[Chris12345]

At best we get a 3rd. Edler declines a trade.

 

Pearson gets a 3rd, Benn a 5th. No one else moves.

[Chris12345]

1 hour ago, Nathancanuck said:

I have to shake my head if people think we actually get a return for Baertschi.. I'm pretty sure we tried to pay (a reasonable price like a 5th or b prospect) to get rid of him

so we could have signed Tanev or Toffoli.. I would be shocked if we didn't try this. So Baertschi is not going anywhere and will either retire or go back to Switzerland after this season..

 

Also people overvalue late round picks a lot.

 

 

He would get nothing. Zero. People overvalue our boys.

 

Why anyone would want a soft player for the post season I have no clue. Grit, grit, and more grit.

[Nathancanuck]

6 minutes ago, Provost said:

As per the above posts... which are good to actually read.

 

The value of a player is 100% dependent on timing.

 

We could have easily moved Baertschi if he had a $1 million salary.  At the deadline, salary and cap implications are largely removed as most money will have been paid out.  That entirely changes the value of players on the trade market.

 

Literally every year depth players get inflated values at the deadline.  A mid/late round pick is like a lottery ticket, it probably isn’t going to turn into an NHL player... but gives you an extra chance.

 

Your 2nd point is literally the opposite position from the first part of your post.

 

Nobody is overvaluing mid/late round picks at all.  That is what our players are worth and why teams would be willing to spend those picks just for playoff depth and injury insurance.
 

You can’t say that our players are overvalued, but the picks they would command aren’t worth any value.  Those are contradictory.

 

7 minutes ago, Provost said:

As per the above posts... which are good to actually read.

 

The value of a player is 100% dependent on timing.

 

We could have easily moved Baertschi if he had a $1 million salary.  At the deadline, salary and cap implications are largely removed as most money will have been paid out.  That entirely changes the value of players on the trade market.

 

Literally every year depth players get inflated values at the deadline.  A mid/late round pick is like a lottery ticket, it probably isn’t going to turn into an NHL player... but gives you an extra chance.

 

Your 2nd point is literally the opposite position from the first part of your post.

 

Nobody is overvaluing mid/late round picks at all.  That is what our players are worth and why teams would be willing to spend those picks just for playoff depth and injury insurance.
 

You can’t say that our players are overvalued, but the picks they would command aren’t worth any value.  Those are contradictory.

True, value is dependent on timing but Baertschi has negative value ALL the time. Sure at the TDL it would be cheaper to move him than before the season started but at the TDL we don't need to move him anymore..

 

If he had a 1 million salary we would not need to move him anyway as he wouldn't eat any cap.

 

It's not the opposite of what I'm saying. By overvaluing late round picks I mean how people seem to get mad if we would let Benn walk instead of getting maybe a 6th round pick back. Or are willing to sell of our whole depth for 4-5 mid/late round picks. And yes if we are out of contention why not trade Benn for a 6th but if he just walks at the end of the season it's not a big deal.. But Pearson, Sutter, Edler we should try to re-sign, I know their value is about a third maybe even second but to us those players are more valuable than those picks. Hamonic has a NMC and won't waive. 

 

I also think we will be in the hunt for the playoffs and not selling off anyone anyway.

[shazzam]

Pearson is a prime candidate. He can fit nicely on a lot of third lines. Cup experience. Should be able to get us a prospect or pick.

 

As for Sutter, it will depend heavily on how he performs. We'll likely need to eat some salary.

[combover]

Demko ep Miller boeser gaudette Big Mac chatfield oj raff rathbone Horvat hog motte Hughes Schmidt all draft picks = Untouchable.

anyone else can go for the right price. 
picks or expansion exempt coming  back.

better for the mismanaged Cap to. 

 

 

 

 

[Drop Em]

1 hour ago, combover said:

Demko ep Miller boeser gaudette Big Mac chatfield oj raff rathbone Horvat hog motte Hughes Schmidt all draft picks = Untouchable.

anyone else can go for the right price. 
picks or expansion exempt coming  back.

better for the mismanaged Cap to. 

 

 

 

 

Wow, did you really just list off none of their A prospects (unless you consider Hoglander one) AND 15 guys on a non playoff team as being untouchables?  Do you seriously consider Gaudette, MacEwen, Chatfiled, OJ, Rafferty, Rathbone, Motte, Schmidt and even Hoglander as untouchable? 

[CanucksJay]

5 hours ago, Nathancanuck said:

I have to shake my head if people think we actually get a return for Baertschi.. I'm pretty sure we tried to pay (a reasonable price like a 5th or b prospect) to get rid of him

so we could have signed Tanev or Toffoli.. I would be shocked if we didn't try this. So Baertschi is not going anywhere and will either retire or go back to Switzerland after this season..

 

Also people overvalue late round picks a lot.

 

 

I believe he also cleared waivers before meaning no team wanted him

[YearoftheNuck]

16 hours ago, appleboy said:

The problem with Jake is that they are stuck with him for another year at 2.55.

I still don’t understand how Jake’s horrible playoff performance awarded him a two year contract. He did have a decent regular season, but when the hockey mattered most he made like Houdini and disappeared. 

[D-Money]

22 hours ago, BPA said:

Is it time to blow things up?

 

Trade...

Miller for a (1st + B prospect) or (A prospect).

Pearson (retain 50%) for a 2nd.

Sutter (retain 50%) for a 3rd.

Roussel (retain 50%) for a 3rd/4th.

Beagle (retain 50%) for a 3rd/4th.

JV for a 3rd.

LE (retain 50%) for a minor league contract...yes it's that bad.

 

Run with...

Motte EP Boeser

Hoglander Bo Podz

And rework the bottom 6.

 

Then see who Seattle takes in the expansion draft (assuming Myers after trading everyone else...lol).

 

 

So much wrong with this. For one, we’re not trading Miller. He’s on a great contract for 2 more seasons after this one. This is a weird year, so chalk it up to that and hope he (and the team) come back better next year.

 

Secondly, a team can only retain on a maximum of 3 contracts. So need to use that sparingly, for teams that need it and are willing to pay for it.

 

Third, Eriksson is going to cost us something to move, even with 50% retained. Pretty sure the team will look into that option this offseason.

 

That said, I’m definitely in favour of trading Pearson, Sutter, Hamonic, and Benn. And this year presents a unique opportunity. A Canadian team is guaranteed to go to the 3rd round, and there’s no clear powerhouse to go through, so all the teams left in it are going to want to add. But if we bow out, the 5 teams at the top can only trade with Ottawa and Vancouver, unless the incoming player goes through quarantine. Prices should be high to get a player who can step into the lineup immediately.

 

In fact, the above situation may even prompt a team into taking a bad contract on with another year on it, such as Roussel or Beagle. If prices for rentals are through the roof, and a team has a sudden injury and some LTIR space, picking up an NHL-er for nothing may look enticing enough to deal with the extra year later.

[D-Money]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:57 AM, GritGrinder said:

Show me one UFA in the history of sports that sets career highs 2 years in a row and then takes a pay cut. I don't care if its a pandemic or not; I could easily see Seattle offering Pearson 4 years and $20m. A cup winner that Seattle fans will know from following the Canucks and Seattle will need to get to the cap floor. My god some of you on here freaking out the Pearson might get a $1m raise from a GM out there is really weird.

I'll show you two: Andreas Athanasiou and Kyle Clifford. 

 

Unless Pearson for some reason agrees to a paycut to stay in Van, he should be traded at the deadline. He should attract the most interest. We could circle back to him in the offseason and take a shot at bringing him back, if its the best option.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by D-Money

[Got the Babych]

Not sure if you got the memo, but we don't "do" trading away upcoming free agents at the trade deadline. We sign FAs high, let them go to competitors for free during the next free agency.

[aGENT]

Wrong thread

Edited February 7, 2021 by aGENT

[Convincing John]

Out of all the pending UFA’s we’ve had during the trade deadline we’ve sold like 3 for futures over the last 20 years. I seriously can’t even recall us ever unloading contracts at the deadline. History always repeats itself, therefore, we won’t sell anything.