complete rebuild? what team would you trade our entire roster for?

[grouse747]

I see a suggestion we may need a complete rebuild... or better argument, we should have done one in recent years. I certainly agree with this. but sedins/potential revenue hit probably got in the way.

 

but given we have EP, QH, JTM, BH, BB and TDemko, how many teams would you exchange that core for?....... I'm thinking that's better core talent than many of the teams in the league.... definitely a massive drop-off after those 6 players. but I presume that's the case with most teams. whether it's 3 players or 8 players.

 

and then partial 2nd line/defense pair and 3rd/4th comes down to spending money wisely, drafting non-first round well and creating great chemistry/fundamental defensive play?.... 

 

would people give up all our current players for a chance to do what Seattle is doing next year?...... is Seattle getting the same terms as Las Vegas?..... surely, LV success was partially a one-time event. can't expect a repeat. and I agree with Ray Ferraro. didn't hear one person say "omg, with the expansion draft etc./etc., LV is going to be really good". it was ALL HINDSIGHT (at least to me)

 

we should definitely think of moving a good forward for a good defensemen..... but I think franchise defensemen are more valuable than forwards (maybe not true at very very high end) and eat up minutes like crazy in big games.
 

thanks for any feedback

[Ghostsof1915]

A complete rebuild would mean new GM and they bring in a coach (Hopefully not Gallant). 

This is probably not the year to do a complete rebuild. Don't see any generational players on this years draft. 

Unless you think Owen Power will be Ekblad v2.0.

Even PLD in new surroundings in Winnipeg is doing better but not earth shaking. 

Laffy with the Rangers isn't even doing that hot. 

 

[kanucks25]

We don't need a complete rebuild, there are some great pieces in place.

 

We just need a shrewd GM that has the ability to construct a proper modern day team instead of a guy who gets more excited about free-agency than a kid hearing the ice cream truck coming down the street.

[Phil_314]

Tampa, Colorado (probably the only two teams without bad contracts -- I'd argue that the likes of Tyler and Erik Johnson aren't "bad-bad", just the result of Covid cap issues and wouldn't have been much of an issue in regular years).
Also Carolina (good roster and love their Storm Surge) and the Islanders (solid core with Barzal, solid hardworking group and their structure turns every goalie into a star, plus Barry Trotz's system brings out the best of their roster).  

Edited March 26, 2021 by Phil_314

[Bad_BOI_pete]

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, grouse747 said:

I see a suggestion we may need a complete rebuild... or better argument, we should have done one in recent years. I certainly agree with this. but sedins/potential revenue hit probably got in the way.

 

but given we have EP, QH, JTM, BH, BB and TDemko, how many teams would you exchange that core for?....... I'm thinking that's better core talent than many of the teams in the league.... definitely a massive drop-off after those 6 players. but I presume that's the case with most teams. whether it's 3 players or 8 players.

 

and then partial 2nd line/defense pair and 3rd/4th comes down to spending money wisely, drafting non-first round well and creating great chemistry/fundamental defensive play?.... 

 

would people give up all our current players for a chance to do what Seattle is doing next year?...... is Seattle getting the same terms as Las Vegas?..... surely, LV success was partially a one-time event. can't expect a repeat. and I agree with Ray Ferraro. didn't hear one person say "omg, with the expansion draft etc./etc., LV is going to be really good". it was ALL HINDSIGHT (at least to me)

 

we should definitely think of moving a good forward for a good defensemen..... but I think franchise defensemen are more valuable than forwards (maybe not true at very very high end) and eat up minutes like crazy in big games.
 

thanks for any feedback

why would it be any different for seattle? You select the player that is of most value in a trade, even if your roster is over the cap the demand for other teams to aquire a quality player will be in seattle's hands. they will select 15  Defenceman many of which will be top 4. 8  top 9 centers and 6 top 6 forwards and 3 goalies. they also get a 48 hour window for first shot at UFA'S if they can come to a agreement they can select them. every time a top 4 is available they will attempt to select them, I bet many teams will try to convince them otherwise.

If these players aren't signed they get first shot and 48 hours to sign them.

Spoiler

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Gabriel Landeskog	COL	28	LW, C	Left	30	11	18	29	0.97	8	89	0.12	19:50	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,571,429	$6,500,000
2. Alex Ovechkin	WSH	35	LW, RW	Right	28	15	12	27	0.96	-2	114	0.13	20:29	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$9,538,462	$10,000,000
3. Tyson Barrie	EDM	29	RD	Right	34	4	26	30	0.88	7	98	0.04	21:52	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,750,000	$3,750,000
4. Dougie Hamilton	CAR	28	RD	Right	32	3	23	26	0.81	9	100	0.03	22:37	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$5,750,000	$6,000,000
5. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins	EDM	28	C, LW	Left	34	11	15	26	0.76	1	100	0.11	21:18	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
6. David Krejci	BOS	35	C	Right	25	1	16	17	0.68	2	37	0.03	17:03	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$7,250,000	$7,000,000
7. Zach Hyman	TOR	29	LW, RW	Right	31	11	10	21	0.68	13	82	0.13	19:30	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$2,250,000	$2,500,000
8. Alex Iafallo	LAK	27	LW, C	Left	31	8	13	21	0.68	0	71	0.11	20:02	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,425,000	$2,450,000
9. Tomas Tatar	MTL	30	LW, RW	Left	30	6	14	20	0.67	6	54	0.11	14:51	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$5,300,000	$4,200,000
10. Mike Hoffman	STL	31	RW, LW	Left	32	8	12	20	0.63	7	71	0.11	15:26	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$4,000,000	$4,000,000
11. Brandon Saad	COL	28	RW, LW	Left	31	10	9	19	0.61	0	46	0.22	14:24	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$6,000,000	$6,500,000
12. Jaden Schwartz	STL	29	LW	Left	18	2	9	11	0.61	8	34	0.06	18:42	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$5,350,000	$4,000,000
13. Paul Stastny	WPG	35	C	Left	33	10	10	20	0.61	4	55	0.18	18:02	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$6,500,000	$5,500,000
14. Scott Laughton	PHI	27	LW, C	Left	29	7	10	17	0.59	8	49	0.14	15:26	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,300,000	$2,300,000
15. Joe Thornton	TOR	41	C, LW	Left	21	3	9	12	0.57	3	20	0.15	14:48	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$700,000	$700,000
16. Alec Martinez	VGK	33	LD	Left	31	3	14	17	0.55	13	44	0.07	22:53	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$4,000,000	$4,000,000
17. Adam Lowry	WPG	28	C	Left	33	7	11	18	0.55	0	54	0.13	15:44	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,916,666	$2,500,000
18. Taylor Hall	BUF	29	LW	Left	32	2	15	17	0.53	-19	77	0.03	18:50	-	-	-	-	-	NMC	UFA	$8,000,000	$8,000,000
19. Mattias Janmark	CHI	28	LW, C	Left	34	10	8	18	0.53	-14	62	0.16	16:56	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,250,000	$2,250,000
20. Travis Zajac	NJD	36	C	Right	27	4	10	14	0.52	3	28	0.14	16:41	-	-	-	-	-	NTC	UFA	$5,750,000	$5,750,000
21. Corey Perry	MTL	36	RW	Right	24	6	6	12	0.50	8	33	0.18	12:24	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$750,000	$750,000
22. Kyle Palmieri	NJD	30	RW, LW	Right	30	6	9	15	0.50	-4	75	0.08	18:00	-	-	-	-	-	M-NTC	UFA	$4,650,000	$4,250,000
23. Blake Coleman	TBL	29	LW, RW	Left	32	6	10	16	0.50	11	64	0.09	15:23	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$1,800,000	$1,800,000
24. Phillip Danault	MTL	28	C	Left	31	2	13	15	0.48	14	46	0.04	16:40	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,083,333	$3,250,000
25. Carl Söderberg	CHI	35	C, LW	Left	29	6	8	14	0.48	-5	33	0.18	15:21	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
26. Ryan Dzingel	OTT	29	LW, RW, C	Left	22	7	3	10	0.45	-1	30	0.23	13:18	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,375,000	$3,500,000
27. Alexander Wennberg	FLA	26	C	Left	33	7	8	15	0.45	-2	43	0.16	17:24	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$2,250,000	$2,250,000
28. Bobby Ryan	DET	34	RW, LW	Right	31	7	7	14	0.45	-14	71	0.10	15:43	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$1,000,000	$1,000,000
29. Erik Gustafsson	PHI	29	LD/RD	Left	23	1	9	10	0.43	0	23	0.04	17:21	-	-	-	-	-		UFA	$3,000,000	$3,000,000

Spoiler

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	GP	G	A	P	P/GP	+/-	Sh	Sh%	TOI	W	L	SO	GAA	Sv%	CLAUSE	EXPIRY	CAP HIT	SALARY
1. Philipp Grubauer	COL	29	G	Left	27	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	20	7	5	1.69	.931		UFA	$3,333,333	$2,750,000
2. Chris Driedger	FLA	27	G	Left	14	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	8	4	1	2.28	.923		UFA	$850,000	$950,000
3. Mike Smith	EDM	39	G	Left	16	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	11	3	2	2.34	.922	NTC	UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000
4. Linus Ullmark	BUF	27	G	Left	12	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	5	4	0	2.44	.919		UFA	$2,600,000	$2,600,000
5. Jonathan Bernier	DET	32	G	Left	17	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	8	6	0	2.78	.918		UFA	$3,000,000	$2,500,000
6. Scott Wedgewood	NJD	28	G	Left	10	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	3	4	2	2.59	.918		UFA	$700,000	$700,000
7. Jaroslav Halák	BOS	36	G	Left	14	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	7	4	2	2.25	.915		UFA	$2,250,000	$2,250,000
8. Antti Raanta	ARI	32	G	Left	11	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	5	4	0	3.20	.913		UFA	$4,250,000	$4,000,000
9. James Reimer	CAR	33	G	Left	17	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	12	4	0	2.68	.909		UFA	$3,400,000	$3,100,000
10. David Rittich	CGY	28	G	Left	12	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	3	6	1	2.86	.908		UFA	$2,750,000	$2,750,000
11. Tuukka Rask	BOS	34	G	Left	15	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	8	4	0	2.41	.907		UFA	$7,000,000	$6,500,000
12. Pekka Rinne	NSH	38	G	Left	21	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	8	11	1	3.07	.899	M-NTC, NMC	UFA	$5,000,000	$4,000,000
13. Devan Dubnyk	SJS	35	G	Left	16	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	3	8	1	3.19	.899	M-NTC	UFA	$4,333,333	$2,500,000
14. Frederik Andersen	TOR	31	G	Left	23	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	13	8	0	2.91	.897	M-NTC	UFA	$5,000,000	$5,000,000
15. Brian Elliott	PHI	36	G	Left	16	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	7	4	2	2.97	.887		UFA	$1,500,000	$1,500,000

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Devron]

Holy smokes hey 

[MeanSeanBean]

We are rebuilding. What do you think the last few years of developing our draft picks into our best players has been if not a rebuild? I don't know how you could suggestion rebuilding a team that is currently rebuilding.

 

But to answer your question, Colorado. I would 100% trade our entire roster for the Avs. I love our core, but the Avs future is so bright it hurts.

[Rabbit]

Sure Canucks is rebuilding.

What is the point of completed rebuilding?

Win a Stanley cup?  or might be two / three cups?

In my mind, rebuilding is never ended.

A player is young now, but will be old years later and need to find a replacement.

 

All the teams in NHL are our trading partners, if they have pieces Canucks need.

[IBatch]

There is some logic for trading both Horvat and Miller, and making BB the edler part of the new core.    Doubt the fanbase has much stomach for it, but they could easily wipe 11 or so million of cap off (and keep it off, because hard to find better value), tank for two years and then go all in when BB is in his peak prime and the younger guys are entering their early prime.   Would pretty much wipe out an entire decade, with a first round exit and a nice covid play-in ... who knows really.    As for the OP, the only core id consider other the ours ranging from Podz-Horvat is maybe CAR.   They are something else.   CAR also paid their dues, took a couple rebuilds and missed nine years in a row of playoffs to get there. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

I'm perfectly fine with the group we have. As it has evolved(honestly) from the 1970 beginning.

 

IF this league had always been run HONESTLY, they'd prob have won a couple Cups too.

[Silky mitts]

Pieces are there, now we need a GM who can surround them with the right talent, make good decisions, and manage the cap well. Unfortunately Jim is not that man. 

[Primal Optimist]

16 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

We don't need a complete rebuild, there are some great pieces in place.

I agree with this sentence 100%

There is about 17ish guys on the roster I think are good guys in their roles. The 6 I think we can upgrade on generally are waiting on the LU cap recapture money and the Eriksson money, which when added to the money those six are getting would allow for a good upgrade at all 6 spots. 

 

I do think we are being too harsh on the GM considering the Lu Cap recapture is not his fault in any way and is a little bit 'off' by the league to impose on us for making legal contract that the league approved under one CBA and then punishing us for it under the new one. Bad Call Buttman.  So yeah, I am giving the GM some slack with that as no one guessed Eriksson's offense would shrivel up and die the day after he was signed. No one could have. Take away Eriksson and the cap crunch due to covid and LU's recapture and I don't think the GM has done anything so egregious as to be fired over. 

 

I know there is a wall of disagreement among some fans though. 

 

EDIT: imagine the club next year with PODZ and possibly a very high draft pick coming to join the current core. It is a broad general view, but the club is heading in the right direction. The core is still early for its window. We were lucky at last years bubble, and it gave us a taste of what to expect over time. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Primal Optimist

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 hours ago, Primal Optimist said:

We were lucky at last years bubble, and it gave us a taste of what to expect over time. 

All it showed was elite goaltending can bail you out for a round or two in the postseason.  Problem is, as you go deeper in the playoffs, you'll run into other teams with good goaltending AND a blue line that can defend.

[Primal Optimist]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

All it showed was elite goaltending can bail you out for a round or two in the postseason.  Problem is, as you go deeper in the playoffs, you'll run into other teams with good goaltending AND a blue line that can defend.

that "elite" goaltending you are bemoaning about losing is at 15 wins and 17 losses right now, lol. 

in fact Markstrom has won 1 in his last 5 starts. I guess he doesn't have a blue line that can defend there either. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Primal Optimist

[DSVII]

No to a complete rebuild, we're not Buffalo

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Primal Optimist said:

that "elite" goaltending you are bemoaning about losing is at 15 wins and 17 losses right now, lol. 

Can't expect your goalies to score goals and or stop all the shots.  Plus you also want a backup goalie that doesn't suck.  A .500 record doesn't mean much in the time of the loser point.

 

Having no healthy 3C magnifies the problem of the blue line.

Edited March 27, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Primal Optimist]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Can't expect your goalies to score goals and or stop all the shots.  Plus you also want a backup goalie that doesn't suck.

Yeah, Florida sucked, not Markstrom, Vancouver too and now Calgary, hope he doesn't get traded at the deadline to Tampa Bay, they would lose all ability to score and defend the blueline. I see what your sayin now.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Primal Optimist said:

Yeah, Florida sucked, not Markstrom, Vancouver too and now Calgary, hope he doesn't get traded at the deadline to Tampa Bay, they would lose all ability to score and defend the blueline. I see what your sayin now.

Canucks have had strong goalie coaching generally since the Nonis days.  About the one true positive constant.  You not only need good drafting with respect to goalies but proper development as well.  

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, Primal Optimist said:

Yeah, Florida sucked, not Markstrom, Vancouver too and now Calgary, hope he doesn't get traded at the deadline to Tampa Bay, they would lose all ability to score and defend the blueline. I see what your sayin now.

Are you actually suggesting that Markstrom didn't carry us to any success we had over the last ~two seasons here lol?

Edited March 27, 2021 by kanucks25

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think the question we all struggle with is..............what is next?

 

What are those last moves?

 

I think Jimmy McGill's (and others) opinion about hiring a president of Hockey Operations is the correct action............

 

I love our U25 players, but Miller and even Horvat will start aging out before all these guys will start hitting their prime............

 

So what is the move? Sure I have an opinion, but truthfully our opinions, are generally fan type opinions........

 

We need that guy who can help Benning in the final moves..............something that Jim and Franco may be resistant to.

 

Who is that guy? I have not a clue????

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by janisahockeynut