Ian Clark must be a priority

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I found the story lined up pretty well based on what was reported and the ultimate outcome.

To me Judd seemed pretty entitled

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, tas said:

you should maybe consider not using canucks army as a source, since it isn't journalism. 

I dont ever use one source for anything.

[Me_]

Ian Clark is how Demko stays on top of his game.

 

He’s a must.

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

To me Judd seemed pretty entitled

Maybe. Most high level people with a good track record look for autonomy in their jobs. I dont see that as entitled necessarily. Directors of Amateur Scouting always answer to the GM of course but Benning and Weisbrod micro managing it and not allowing him to do his job is just more about them being incapable of trusting people in those roles.

 

Weisbrod has done the same thing everywhere he has been. Pushing out good people to consolidate power with him. That he usually cant seem to effectively handle and ends up making very costly mistakes.

 

No NHL team should have 2 guys directly micro managing as President, GM, Assistant GM, Director of Amateur Scouting, Director of Player Personnel, andDirector of Pro Scouting.

 

Its actually unheard of and a big reason Canucks management is widely ridiculed around the league. 

 

[tas]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I dont ever use one source for anything.

I think you made a typo there. you meant "even" instead of "ever" right?

[DeltaSwede]

7 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You dont have to take my word for it. Go read some articles on it. Its all out there and easy to find.

 

Name one other NHL team where the GM and one Assistant GM are also:

 

President

Director of Amateur Scouting

Director of Player Personnel

Director of Pro Scouting

 

I will give you a hint. There aren't any.

 

And of course you arent buying it and thats why your response is a simple one liner to try to dismiss it. Its all true and widely reported and verifiable.

 

A lot of false information being sputtered about in this thread. If you are so well read on the topic you have either misread or you're pushing some agenda here. 

 

Jim Benning is GM with John Weisbrod and Chris Gear as his assistants. 

 

Judd Brackett was replaced by Todd Harvey who is Director of Amateur Scouting. He was interim for the position for 2020 and I haven't heard anything change there so I am assuming he has just carried on in that position. He was the only scout to accompany Benning and Weisbrod at the 2020 draft table. Ron Delorme and Thomas Gradin share responsibilities as chiefs of amateur scouting. Ron Delorme is a Chief Amateur scout and Thomas Gradin is an Associate Chief Amateur scout.

 

Speaking of Weisbrod, he is just like any other scout around the table, he offers his opinion and advice but has less influence than Harvey, Delorme and Gradin. 

 

Director of Pro Scouting has been Brett Henning since 2017. He is Lorne Hennings son (former assistant GM, head of player personell with the Canucks and now scout with the Kraken). 

 

Director of Player Personnel is not a position the Canucks have to my knowledge. Ryan Johnson is Senior Director of Player Development. 

 

You are riff raffing like you have insight on what happens in the room but show your lack of insight by not even understanding the positions within the organization. Please stop spreading false information that others may read as fact if you yourself are not aware of things. 

 

More on topic - I hope Clarky comes back as well. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by DeltaSwede

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

 

A lot of false information being sputtered about in this thread. If you are so well read on the topic you have either misread or you're pushing some agenda here. 

 

Jim Benning is GM with John Weisbrod and Chris Gear as his assistants. 

 

Judd Brackett was replaced by Todd Harvey who is Director of Amateur Scouting. He was interim for the position for 2020 and I haven't heard anything change there so I am assuming he has just carried on in that position. He was the only scout to accompany Benning and Weisbrod at the 2020 draft table. Ron Delorme and Thomas Gradin share responsibilities as chiefs of amateur scouting. Ron Delorme is a Chief Amateur scout and Thomas Gradin is an Associate Chief Amateur scout.

 

Speaking of Weisbrod, he is just like any other scout around the table, he offers his opinion and advice but has less influence than Harvey, Delorme and Gradin. 

 

Director of Pro Scouting has been Brett Henning since 2017. He is Lorne Hennings son (former assistant GM, head of player personell with the Canucks and now scout with the Kraken). 

 

Director of Player Personnel is not a position the Canucks have to my knowledge. Ryan Johnson is Senior Director of Player Development. 

 

You are riff raffing like you have insight on what happens in the room but show your lack of insight by not even understanding the positions within the organization. Please stop spreading false information that others may read as fact if you yourself are not aware of things. 

 

More on topic - I hope Clarky comes back as well. 

 

Feel free to correct his equally biased take on Tryamkin next 

[Gawdzukes]

8 hours ago, tas said:

sorry, not buying it. 

lol. I'm going to make a bunch of BS up and then not support it. Choice stuff ... but isn't it all.

[IBatch]

I like Ian.  We share the same name.   Makes me happy.   Sign the guy already! 

[tas]

1 hour ago, DeltaSwede said:

 

A lot of false information being sputtered about in this thread. If you are so well read on the topic you have either misread or you're pushing some agenda here. 

 

Jim Benning is GM with John Weisbrod and Chris Gear as his assistants. 

 

Judd Brackett was replaced by Todd Harvey who is Director of Amateur Scouting. He was interim for the position for 2020 and I haven't heard anything change there so I am assuming he has just carried on in that position. He was the only scout to accompany Benning and Weisbrod at the 2020 draft table. Ron Delorme and Thomas Gradin share responsibilities as chiefs of amateur scouting. Ron Delorme is a Chief Amateur scout and Thomas Gradin is an Associate Chief Amateur scout.

 

Speaking of Weisbrod, he is just like any other scout around the table, he offers his opinion and advice but has less influence than Harvey, Delorme and Gradin. 

 

Director of Pro Scouting has been Brett Henning since 2017. He is Lorne Hennings son (former assistant GM, head of player personell with the Canucks and now scout with the Kraken). 

 

Director of Player Personnel is not a position the Canucks have to my knowledge. Ryan Johnson is Senior Director of Player Development. 

 

You are riff raffing like you have insight on what happens in the room but show your lack of insight by not even understanding the positions within the organization. Please stop spreading false information that others may read as fact if you yourself are not aware of things. 

 

More on topic - I hope Clarky comes back as well. 

 

 

 

 

thank you for this. 

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I like Ian.  We share the same name.   Makes me happy.   Sign the guy already! 

I really don't think we are bringing clarke back.  JB said in his last interview, when asked about Clarke, that there were a lot of good goalie coaches available.  That says to me, that Clarke is gone.  Hope I'm wrong though.  

[DeltaSwede]

Sorry to continue derailing this thread to more of a discussion about the Canucks scouts, I just can't let this one slide. 

 

To my knowledge, the main reason Brackett did not return to the Canucks was that he wanted more control and say in terms of the scouting department rather than what players would be selected in future drafts. He wanted more say in who would scout for the team. Considering that, I would rather Benning than Brackett making those type of calls. Ignore the individuals, I would much rather my GM set the tone for the future of the team he is trying to build and making sure the whole organization is moving in the same direction and speaking the same language. It makes way more sense than a mid-manager deciding the direction of a single entity within the organization. 

 

Benning was the one to promote Brackett in the first place. He also recognized Ron Delormes quality and re-instituted him as some sort of head within the department (a long with Gradin) after Mike Gillis demoted Delorme to WHL scout when he became GM. Benning has clearly got a very good idea of what scouts he wants within the department and what roles they should have and how things should work. He has also promoted Todd Harvey to Director and from all the things I've heard, Harvey is doing a fantastic job. JB has a keen eye for scouts and has built a very strong scouting department and culture within it. 

 

Benning leans heavily on his staff and emphasizes that every scout should be apart of the discussion and ultimately what player to select. I rewatched some videos from the 2020 draft both prior and after the draft. It could not be any clearer that the scouting staff was behind the Joni Jurmo pick. They had him ranked much higher than his draft position and had already circled his namn on their list according to Harvey as he was falling towards their pick. Gradin had some insights on him and Jurmo matched the type of player they were aiming to get. Defensemen with size and mobility. Harvey was ecstatic about the pick.

 

The things Brackett explains in his interviews while he was here, is what Benning wanted his scouting staff to work towards. He was paraphrasing the values that Benning and most likely Weisbrod as well declared. Clear communication, multiple viewings by different scouts for interest players, cross-country and league scouting by staff, everyone's opinion is heard and encouraged to be shared, thorough research, preparation and documentation. It's probably the side of Benning I am most impressed by. It's not easy putting the right people in the right place. By all indications, he has done that successfully multiple times during his time here. Every player selected is a team effort and it's so evident if you take the time to watch (the awesome) behind the scenes videos from the past few drafts. God I am such a nerd in terms of this stuff, I just love this side of the sport. 

 

Fun fact, even when Brackett was here, Benning had already promoted Todd Harvey to a "cross-country" scout in his second year with the team. It was only Harvey and Gradin that traveled and watched players from multiple countries. Harvey is highly respected within the organization and clearly by Benning with the faith he has put in him and how he has advanced within the organization. Year 1 scout, year 2 cross-country scout, year 3 interim Director and year 4 Director fo Amateur scouting. I am giving Benning the benefit of doubt that he found a highly capable replacement for Brackett from within. We could have ourselves a scouting gem ladies and gentlemen. The role of director is crucial and I think the most important side of it is being the spider in the web for all the scouts and managing them in a good way. High communicative skills is key, Harvey has that. 

 

Ian Clark is good though. I like him. He goalies and stuff. Demko and Marky. Pay the man. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by DeltaSwede

[oldnews]

 

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

To me Judd seemed pretty entitled

who knows if he was frustrated - and if so, how much so - and how much of it may have been justified - or not...

 

he 'presented' at times as though he resented the limits of his authority - it certainly leaked into some of the draft floor video where body language is pretty easy to pick up on.

 

was that legitimate - was he that consistently the most informed / or best informed voice among the amateur scouting team?

having to be part of a process where there were a fair number of 'stakeholders' who had a say in the end - can be challenging as well if a person has a considerable ego, or belief that they haven't received the recognition they feel they've earned.

 

he was also in a market that certainly appears to enable that kind of ego / rift - constantly a pet project of the smarmy crowd bent on storying that Brackett was held back, of course, by the Dim one. 

 

Who knows really - of course under the surface, it's far more complicated than any short narrative - positives, negatives, agreements, divergences, etc - but from the outside it looked fairly unsustainable.

 

He probably did a pretty good job here....and then moved on.  It happens.  Not all situations have long term shelf-lives.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

who knows if he was frustrated - and if so, how much so - and how much of it may have been justified - or not...

 

he 'presented' at times as though he resented the limits of his authority - it certainly leaked into some of the draft floor video where body language is pretty easy to pick up on.

 

was that legitimate - was he that consistently the most informed / or best informed voice among the amateur scouting team?

having to be part of a process where there were a fair number of 'stakeholders' who had a say in the end - can be challenging as well if a person has a considerable ego, or belief that they haven't received the recognition they feel they've earned.

 

he was also in a market that certainly appears to enable that kind of ego / rift - constantly a pet project of the smarmy crowd bent on storying that Brackett was held back, of course, by the Dim one. 

 

Who knows really - of course under the surface, it's far more complicated than any short narrative - positives, negatives, agreements, divergences, etc - but from the outside it looked fairly unsustainable.

 

He probably did a pretty good job here....and then moved on.  It happens.  Not all situations have long term shelf-lives.

we'll never know the behind the scenes stuff with any accuracy, but we do know it was here where he gained the trust of senior management and moved up the ranks. That kind of blows the micro-managing narrative. 

 

I just think Jim is very old school. I don't think he's some sort of vindictive micro-manager, if he was Judd would never have had the head scout job. 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Maybe. Most high level people with a good track record look for autonomy in their jobs. I dont see that as entitled necessarily. Directors of Amateur Scouting always answer to the GM of course but Benning and Weisbrod micro managing it and not allowing him to do his job is just more about them being incapable of trusting people in those roles.

 

Weisbrod has done the same thing everywhere he has been. Pushing out good people to consolidate power with him. That he usually cant seem to effectively handle and ends up making very costly mistakes.

 

No NHL team should have 2 guys directly micro managing as President, GM, Assistant GM, Director of Amateur Scouting, Director of Player Personnel, andDirector of Pro Scouting.

 

Its actually unheard of and a big reason Canucks management is widely ridiculed around the league. 

 

I agree that the Canucks management is likely too thin and has suffered somewhat for it. I don't know that losing Brackett is a big deal or not, thats something we need to wait a few drafts to find out.

 

I see Jim handing off more responsibility for contracts and legal issues to Gear, and thats good. 

 

I hope that the rumours of a new president and the Sedins in a development role are true too. They won't get intimidated by someone like Weisbrod. 

 

I don't care one iota about league-wide ridicule or making any kind of substantive decision because of it. We're an easy target for a lot of reasons and I care about whats on the ice. 

[oldnews]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:10 PM, kacholu said:

Idk guys. I think he is asking for autonomy and wants to take credit for Demko's success. 

 

We all know it's all JB who should be praised for goalie development. 

 

Don't count on him being back 

I don't know

I think / he is....

what?

we all know what?

hmmm.

[Fred65]

You're right about the significance of scouting here's some insight

 

Canucks Director of Amateur Scouting on Preparing for Draft - YouTube

 

Behind Closed Doors at the Canucks Pre-Draft Scouting Meetings - YouTube

 

Canucks draft meeting: Jake Virtanen - All Access - YouTube

[wallstreetamigo]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree that the Canucks management is likely too thin and has suffered somewhat for it. I don't know that losing Brackett is a big deal or not, thats something we need to wait a few drafts to find out.

 

I see Jim handing off more responsibility for contracts and legal issues to Gear, and thats good. 

 

I hope that the rumours of a new president and the Sedins in a development role are true too. They won't get intimidated by someone like Weisbrod. 

 

I don't care one iota about league-wide ridicule or making any kind of substantive decision because of it. We're an easy target for a lot of reasons and I care about whats on the ice. 

For me it comes down to a lack of operational efficiency and that there is a reason other NHL teams expand the leadership to include more than 2 voices. Dissenting and varied input are important parts of effective management decision making. Makes it easier to avoid mistakes because 2 guys think the same way or view the risk similarly.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

For me it comes down to a lack of operational efficiency and that there is a reason other NHL teams expand the leadership to include more than 2 voices. Dissenting and varied input are important parts of effective management decision making. Makes it easier to avoid mistakes because 2 guys think the same way or view the risk similarly.

Would Clarke be a dissenting voice though?  I would think the goalie coach would be provided autonomy in most respects, no?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

For me it comes down to a lack of operational efficiency and that there is a reason other NHL teams expand the leadership to include more than 2 voices. Dissenting and varied input are important parts of effective management decision making. Makes it easier to avoid mistakes because 2 guys think the same way or view the risk similarly.

for sure. Without fans in the stands, I can see maybe why Aqulini would hold off on a president decision, but now that it looks pretty certain we'll have a normalish year he needs to re-invest in senior management. That will diminish Weisbrod's influence more than anything.