Honest Conversation With Those Who Still Support Management

[thrago]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but one of Bennings biggest obstacles was the terrible draft history before he signed on.  You can go back farther then this but the 5 drafts before  he was hired Horvat was the best player but after that second best was Ben Hutten?  We had no cupboard at all it was so bad.  

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Fair enough. I'm not asking for the perfect GM.  Just one that doesn't open himself up for sports talk fodder every month or two with his questionable actions. Or non actions.  I want a GM who carries enough weight to be able to tell the owner things he doesn't want to hear.  But just as important to the next regime working, will be seeing if the Aquilinis will be willing to take a step back and re-evaluate their roles as well, (looking at you Francesco) as well as a commitment to invest new money, positions, in the executive and coaching areas. That is out of fans hands. I don't think a plane banner would work on the Aquilinis.

jesus I'm tired of people whining about a "meddling owner".  He owns the team, he can meddle if he wants to

[King Heffy]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

jesus I'm tired of people whining about a "meddling owner".  He owns the team, he can meddle if he wants to

People here act like Aquilini is another Jerry Jones or something.

[Pbhatti00]

I don't blame Benning, I blame ownership 100%. When Benning and Linden took over in 2014, it was painfully obvious that the Sedin era was over and that a rebuild was necessary. Rather than listening to what Benning and Linden recommended - a proper rebuild ownership decides to give a few more kicks at the can between 2014 and 2017 and forced a retool.

 

If ownership actually took the advice,  they would have got a good return (draft picks) out of our aging veterans, as well as higher draft positions from finishing lower in standings. Given Benning's great drafting skill, I firmly believe if that approach was followed, by now we would be a solid, complete young team, making the playoffs and contending.

 

Right now everyone is saying Benning had 7 years and no results, but i say ownership forced his hand and made him go against his recommendations for the first 3ish years and the rebuild actually began in 2018. Given that I think Benning has done a good job with what direction he was given to keep the team competitive for as long as possible. To keep the team competitive he was forced to sign filler players to questionable terms and dollars...(what player wants to sign with a declining team unless you overpay and commit?).

 

For most fans it's frustrating that 7 years later and we are still waiting for a contender. I would love to ask ownership if they think the team would be further ahead, behind or at the same spot today, had they let Linden and Benning, professionalsn they hired do what was recommeneded . I personally think we would be leaps and bounds ahead. 

 

Rumor has it that the Aquillini's have a bad reputation amongst the GM community in the league for meddling. Until they  let the hockey minds do what is recommended we will be stuck in medicority long term, not good enough to win a cup but good enough to just make the playoffs and exit early. I blame ownership 100% . 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Pbhatti00

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, JohnTavares said:

Freidman reported that Subban would have been a Canuck if Dubois fell to 5. Freidman named Chris Tanev and Bo Horvat in addition to the first pick as trade assets for Subban.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-trading-p-k-subban-realistic-possibility/

It was never speculated to be a one for one straight up deal for the pick. It was always going to be a package... what you're saying is just not true.

PK Subban was a top pairing defenseman that recently won a Norris - he wasn't going to come cheap and definitely not straight up for the 5th pick. To think that would be the case is just pure delusion sorry.

Yes and if you believe his 31 thoughts six or so teams were involved in talks for Subban at the time, only the ones who could really afford him and his monster cap hit.   Nothing happened did it?  And said JB wasn't willing to budge on Horvat so why would getting PLD change anything given Horvat and Tanev were the other two pieces?  So maybe go back and edit your post and include this, and the deals COL, EDM, NYR etc were supposedly working on as well.   EDM was the main portion of the article... Nowhere in the article did Friedman say Subban would be a Canuck if we got PLD - it said MTL would love to get their hands on PLD.. nice try though and good spin job. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The plan the way I see it.

 

1. Make some big signings, go for another run with the Sedins. 

 

2. OK, terrible season.  Draft high, add expensive vets and get back to dominating. 

 

3. OK another horrible season? Draft high, add overpriced vets, trade for more 23-25 year olds and sign more people.  No way there's another bad season.  Retool time. 

 

4. OK so another high pick, just add more overpriced vets.  No way it doesn't work again.  You know what.  Trade 1st and 2nd round pick to sneak into the playoffs.  

 

5. OK retool again, well.. mostly just lose players because of expensive vets.  

 

6.  Going for it again!

 

7. OK another terrible season, don't have money to sign overpriced vets.

 

8. Wait 2 years for money to sign expensive vets. 

 

 

That is the plan you have broke the code!

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Yes and if you believe his 31 thoughts six or so teams were involved in talks for Subban at the time, only the ones who could really afford him and his monster cap hit.   Nothing happened did it?  And said JB wasn't willing to budge on Horvat so why would getting PLD change anything given Horvat and Tanev were the other two pieces?  So maybe go back and edit your post and include this, and the deals COL, EDM, NYR etc were supposedly working on as well.   EDM was the main portion of the article... Nowhere in the article did Friedman say Subban would be a Canuck if we got PLD - it said MTL would love to get their hands on PLD.. nice try though and good spin job. 

Based on his handle he is just trolling - he could care less about the Canucks and JB.

[ShawnAntoski]

15 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The plan the way I see it.

 

1. Make some big signings, go for another run with the Sedins. 

 

2. OK, terrible season.  Draft high, add expensive vets and get back to dominating. 

 

3. OK another horrible season? Draft high, add overpriced vets, trade for more 23-25 year olds and sign more people.  No way there's another bad season.  Retool time. 

 

4. OK so another high pick, just add more overpriced vets.  No way it doesn't work again.  You know what.  Trade 1st and 2nd round pick to sneak into the playoffs.  

 

5. OK retool again, well.. mostly just lose players because of expensive vets.  

 

6.  Going for it again!

 

7. OK another terrible season, don't have money to sign overpriced vets.

 

8. Wait 2 years for money to sign expensive vets. 

 

 

You mean mentoring vets who are good at faceoffs and not scoring.

 

Based on your crude summary of history - it seems obvious the team is doing the tango (one step forward and steps back); this season will be the same a high draft pick but not top 3 for winning meaningless all star games so Green can once again pad his stats.

 

Also, I dont blame Aquaman for chasing playoff $ but this cycle of mediocrity have been going on for a few years now with no real improvements on yearly basis; except for the joy of watching the young core develope and the anxious anticipation of potentially competing in the near future the trend line has been mostly flat.

[Fred65]

Good article on management O/A and it's interesting to view the responses 

 

 

For the Canucks, fan apathy is far worse than anger - Vancouver Is Awesome

 

Covid has not only protected JB from the fans anger attending games, it's protected FA from the wrath of the fans from reality

Edited May 18, 2021 by Fred65

[JohnTavares]

4 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Based on his handle he is just trolling - he could care less about the Canucks and JB.

Are you an idiot?

 

I joined this board in 2006.

You probably weren't even alive then.

 

This is what I mean when I say people won't have an honest conversation... the Benning Bros just attack, and troll.  How can you talk when you have folks like this?

EDIT: Again why does my username matter? Alf and these pack of trolls have really taken over CDC... this place is miserable now.

Edited May 18, 2021 by JohnTavares

[JohnTavares]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes and if you believe his 31 thoughts six or so teams were involved in talks for Subban at the time, only the ones who could really afford him and his monster cap hit.   Nothing happened did it?  And said JB wasn't willing to budge on Horvat so why would getting PLD change anything given Horvat and Tanev were the other two pieces?  So maybe go back and edit your post and include this, and the deals COL, EDM, NYR etc were supposedly working on as well.   EDM was the main portion of the article... Nowhere in the article did Friedman say Subban would be a Canuck if we got PLD - it said MTL would love to get their hands on PLD.. nice try though and good spin job. 

I think you should read the article or dig up some more information.

Montreal wanted to draft PLD. If PLD was not available, there would be no deal.

Friedman CONFIRMED that Subban likely would have been a Canuck if PLD was available at the Canucks selection. Do you even understand what a spin job means? 

 

EDIT:

 

“Vancouver has confirmed this to me. There was a chance the Canucks were going to get PK Subban that night. The problem was that Pierre-Luc Dubois was not going to fall to Vancouver’s pick, because Montreal knew Columbus was taking him. If Montreal believed that Dubois was going to be available at five, PK Subban could have been a Vancouver Canuck.”

Edited May 18, 2021 by JohnTavares

[JohnTavares]

13 hours ago, stawns said:

jesus I'm tired of people whining about a "meddling owner".  He owns the team, he can meddle if he wants to

100% - all owners meddle to a certain extent.

 

FA is not absolved of blame, but did all these folks on this board hit their head and forgot where we were 10 years ago? Or were they just little kids back then?

 

MG almost won a cup with FA. Let's not act like FA is this enormous obstacle that we can't overcome. We were literally 60 minutes away from winning the cup with FA as our owner. It's doable if the GM can do their job properly.

[Forsy]

If Benning's out, I will miss his scouting (or was it Jude?).

To me the real apathy for the canucks isn't the losing/missing playoffs, it's the feeble defense and inability to consistently break out.
We've seen this since 2011, and has stayed whether it was Gillis/Benning, Vigneault/Torts/Willie/Green, all new players on the front end and back end.
Hughes skating/creativity and Petterson the superstar backchecking has helped, but we still get outshot senselessly by worse teams and lose the puck endlessly on our end.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Forsy
grammar

[ShawnAntoski]

17 minutes ago, JohnTavares said:

Are you an idiot?

 

I joined this board in 2006.

You probably weren't even alive then.

 

This is what I mean when I say people won't have an honest conversation... the Benning Bros just attack, and troll.  How can you talk when you have folks like this?

EDIT: Again why does my username matter? Alf and these pack of trolls have really taken over CDC... this place is miserable now.

The name calling at the beginning just confirmed it (to me); if you wanted an honest conversation then you could had just provided more context in a better manner.   For some context: I had been a fan since the 80’s and there was a Laffs fan troll that use to roam this forum not too long ago - didn’t mean to offend.

 

edited

Edited May 18, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, JohnTavares said:

Are you an idiot?

 

I joined this board in 2006.

You probably weren't even alive then.

 

This is what I mean when I say people won't have an honest conversation... the Benning Bros just attack, and troll.  How can you talk when you have folks like this?

Exactly. Some, in fact I suspect many have no knowledge beyond the last 5 years. I've been a season ticket holder since 1973 ie I pay to attend game not so much about TV where if things ain't looking good you just switch channels. This is bad  as the Pre Quinn era when you could fire a cannon around the Pacific Colosseum without fear of hitting any one. Crowds of 8-9000 per game, sit where ever you want.

 

Covid has been good to JB, there are no irate fans screaming for his job every game and it's shaded FA from reality

[JohnTavares]

4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

The name calling at the beginning just confirmed it (to me); if you wanted an honest conversation then you could had just provided more context in a better manner. 

Sorry dude - you're just an idiot and a troll if you think my username has anything to do with the conversation.

I literally joined the board before most of you guys were born so yeah... not even going to spend anymore time on trolls like you.

[ShawnAntoski]

7 minutes ago, JohnTavares said:

Sorry dude - you're just an idiot and a troll if you think my username has anything to do with the conversation.

I literally joined the board before most of you guys were born so yeah... not even going to spend anymore time on trolls like you.

I edited my response to you; to recap, I had been a fan since the 80’s and not too long ago there was a Laffs troll roaming this forum - I always call out any suspected trolls.  We are just all fans of the Canucks and now that you had (rudely) provided some context then I apologized for my assumption 
 

No name calling - wasn’t hard !

Edited May 18, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[DSVII]

13 hours ago, King Heffy said:

People here act like Aquilini is another Jerry Jones or something.

I'd say it's half the meddling of Jones and half the front office penny pinching of the Pegulas. Not as extreme as either, just a blended mix.

 

14 hours ago, stawns said:

jesus I'm tired of people whining about a "meddling owner".  He owns the team, he can meddle if he wants to

It's true, just that the general trend we see in sports is that a meddling owner does not usually correlate well with team success.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by DSVII

[Kenny Blankenship]

Just out of curiosity, is there actually any tangible evidence that the Aquilini’s meddle any more than every other owner of a sports franchise? I feel like I hear people whine about ownership all the time but as far as I’m concerned it’s always been conjecture pushed by the media. People here just love to eat it up though lol. 

[Fanuck]

14 hours ago, stawns said:

jesus I'm tired of people whining about a "meddling owner".  He owns the team, he can meddle if he wants to

I agree, FA has the right to do anything he wants with the team. 

My issue with him as an owner is that he's gone on record numerous times that the people he hired to operate the franchise have(had) full autonomy to make hockey decisions and this clearly has not been the case (eg. Trevor Linden leaving when he and FA disagreed on the direction of the club).  FA wants to make any decision he wants with the club, that's completely fine with me, but he's using good people like Trevor/JB to hide behind so he doesn't take any heat in the public eye - that's just cowardly if you ask me.   Trevor wasn't having it and wouldn't let his integrity be compromised - no, I'm not saying JB doesn't have integrity but he may have a different standard of what he can accept from his employer than Trevor does/did.