knucklehead91 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: how dare Gillis's team finish top 8 in the league every year how dare he only have late 1st round pick every year that most teams in the league would whiff on. how dare he doesn't have any top 6 picks every year to fill the prospect pool. news flash most team that's been sitting near the top of the league standing have pretty bare prospect pools. so what did benning do? whiffs on his 2 top 6 picks traded away mccann for a pylon that he felt the need to re-sign right away. then started tossing away draft picks and prospect and gotten no return out of it.. it's actually pretty pathetic how little top end or or above average prospect we have during benning's tenure so far that's even still with the team considering we have like the 3rd or 5th worse record in the league since benning took over. woo lind rathbone lockwood gadjovich etc are nothing really to get excited about. outside of the 1st round what does benning have to show for? demko and Hoglander.. batting only 60% on top 10 picks not including podz which is tbd. but probably in your eyes all our prospect are gonna be nhl impact player or something. our prospect pool is loaded etc etc etc. LOOOOOOOOOOOOL Gillis's team??? Heres the 2013-14 Canucks roster Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 191 322 513 1115 33 Henrik Sedin C 70 11 39 50 42 3 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 32 22 Daniel Sedin L 73 16 31 47 38 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 32 17 Ryan Kesler C 77 25 18 43 81 -15 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Livonia 29 20 Chris Higgins L 78 17 22 39 30 -14 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Smithtown 30 5 Jason Garrison D 81 7 26 33 57 -5 -- -- -- -- -- BC: White Rock 28 9 Zack Kassian R 73 14 15 29 124 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Windsor 22 25 Mike Santorelli C 49 10 18 28 6 9 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Vancouver 27 3 Kevin Bieksa D 76 4 20 24 104 -8 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Grimsby 32 15 Brad Richardson R 73 11 12 23 39 1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Belleville 28 23 Alexander Edler D 63 7 15 22 50 -39 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ostersund 27 2 Dan Hamhuis D 79 5 17 22 26 13 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Smithers 30 36 Jannik Hansen R 71 11 9 20 43 -9 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Rodovre 27 7 David Booth L 66 9 10 19 18 1 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Detroit 28 8 Christopher Tanev D 64 6 11 17 8 12 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 23 18 Ryan Stanton D 64 1 15 16 32 5 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: St. Albert 24 14 Alexandre Burrows R 49 5 10 15 71 -9 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Pincourt 32 32 Dale Weise 1 R 44 3 9 12 42 -1 -- -- -- -- -- MAN: Winnipeg 25 6 Yannick Weber D 49 6 4 10 16 -7 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Morges 24 29 Tom Sestito L 77 5 4 9 213 -14 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Rome 25 21 Zac Dalpe C 55 4 3 7 6 -7 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Paris 23 27 Shawn Matthias 2 L 18 3 4 7 12 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Mississauga 25 46 Nicklas Jensen R 17 3 3 6 10 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Herning 20 45 Jordan Schroeder L 25 3 3 6 2 -7 -- -- -- -- -- MN: Lakeville 22 49 Darren Archibald R 16 1 2 3 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Newmarket 23 24 Raphael Diaz 3 D 6 1 1 2 0 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Baar 27 54 Kellan Lain L 9 1 0 1 21 1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Oakville 24 26 Frankie Corrado D 15 1 0 1 4 -2 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 20 13 Jeremy Welsh F 19 1 0 1 6 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Bayfield 25 40 Mike Zalewski L 2 0 1 1 0 2 -- -- -- -- -- NY: New Hartford 21 30 Joacim Eriksson G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 23 42 Benn Ferriero R 2 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- MA: Essex 26 44 Pascal Pelletier C 3 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- NFLD: Labrador City 30 47 Yann Sauve D 3 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 23 35 Jacob Markstrom 2 G 4 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 23 41 Andrew Alberts D 10 0 0 0 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- MN: Eden Prairie 32 31 Eddie Lack G 41 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Norrtalje 25 1 Roberto Luongo 4 G 42 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 34 Bench 82 0 0 0 14 0 -- -- -- -- -- I'll get real technical with ya. Henrik, Daniel, Bieksa, Edler, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen were all Burke and Nonis draft picks/signings Luongo was a Nonis move The team finished 25th in the league. That leaves Higgins, Hamhuis, Lack, Stanton, Weber, Weise, Booth, Garrison, Tanev and Kassian. That is the extent of Gillis on the 2013-14 team Now lets look at "Gillis's" 2014-15 team Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 236 406 642 860 22 Daniel Sedin L 82 20 56 76 18 5 6 2 2 4 0 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 33 33 Henrik Sedin C 82 18 55 73 22 11 6 1 3 4 2 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 33 17 Radim Vrbata R 79 31 32 63 20 6 6 2 2 4 0 Czech Rep.: Mlada Boleslav 33 13 Nick Bonino C 75 15 24 39 22 7 6 1 2 3 4 CT: Hartford 26 20 Chris Higgins L 77 12 24 36 16 8 6 1 1 2 2 NY: Smithtown 31 14 Alexandre Burrows R 70 18 15 33 68 0 3 0 2 2 21 PQ: Pincourt 33 36 Jannik Hansen R 81 16 17 33 27 -6 6 2 2 4 0 Denmark: Rodovre 28 23 Alexander Edler D 74 8 23 31 54 13 6 0 3 3 4 Sweden: Ostersund 28 27 Shawn Matthias L 78 18 9 27 16 -3 6 1 1 2 10 ONT: Mississauga 26 53 Bo Horvat C 68 13 12 25 16 -8 6 1 3 4 2 ONT: London 19 51 Derek Dorsett R 79 7 18 25 175 4 6 0 0 0 20 SASK: Kindersley 27 7 Linden Vey R 75 10 14 24 18 -3 1 0 0 0 0 SASK: Wakaw 23 2 Dan Hamhuis D 59 1 22 23 44 0 6 0 1 1 16 BC: Smithers 31 6 Yannick Weber D 65 11 10 21 30 4 6 0 0 0 12 Switzerland: Morges 25 15 Brad Richardson R 45 8 13 21 34 0 5 0 0 0 15 ONT: Belleville 29 8 Christopher Tanev D 70 2 18 20 12 8 6 0 3 3 0 ONT: Toronto 24 9 Zack Kassian R 42 10 6 16 81 -5 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Windsor 23 3 Kevin Bieksa D 60 4 10 14 77 0 6 0 0 0 9 ONT: Grimsby 33 41 Ronalds Kenins L 30 4 8 12 8 -2 5 1 1 2 4 Latvia: Riga 23 18 Ryan Stanton D 54 3 8 11 35 9 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: St. Albert 25 5 Luca Sbisa D 76 3 8 11 46 -8 6 1 1 2 7 Italy: Ozieri 24 42 47 Sven Baertschi 1 L 3 2 0 2 4 0 2 0 0 0 0 Switzerland: Bern 21 44 Adam Clendening 2 D 17 0 2 2 8 1 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Niagara Falls 21 3 55 Alex Biega D 7 1 0 1 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 26 26 Frankie Corrado D 10 1 0 1 0 -7 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 21 29 Tom Sestito L 3 0 1 1 7 1 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Rome 26 21 Brandon McMillan 3 L 8 0 1 1 0 -1 2 1 0 1 4 BC: Richmond 24 24 39 Brandon DeFazio L 2 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Oakville 25 35 Jacob Markstrom G 3 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 24 46 Nicklas Jensen R 5 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Herning 21 31 Eddie Lack G 41 0 0 0 2 0 4 0 0 0 0 Sweden: Norrtalje 26 30 Ryan Miller G 45 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 MI: East Lansing 34 Hmmmm Vrbata, Bonino, Miller, Baertschi, Sbisa, RIcharson, Dorsett, Vey are all new.... How did GIllis do that?? 2013-14 Vancouver Canucks NHL Pacific 82 36 35 0 4 7 83 0.506 196 223 1115 19771 John Tortorella Out of Playoffs 2014-15 Vancouver Canucks NHL Pacific 82 48 29 0 3 2 101 0.616 242 222 18711 Willie Desjardins Lost in round 1 Weird, they also got a new coach too. Crazy what Gillis did while not working with the Canucks. @wai_lai416@lmm since you guys love talking about the past..... The game is called Hindsight Mike Gillis's drafting.......Lets start with 2008 at the beginning 2008 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2008 Entry 10 1 Cody Hodgson C Brampton Battalion [OHL] 328 64 78 142 68 2008 Entry 41 2 Yann Sauve D Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 8 0 0 0 0 2008 Entry 131 5 Prabh Rai C Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL] 2008 Entry 161 6 Mats Josten-Froshaug C Linkoping Jr. [Sweden] 2008 Entry 191 7 Morgan Clark G Red Deer Rebels [WHL] Hmmm who did he miss out on... Myers, ERIK F***ING KARLSSON, Gardiner, Eberle, Ennis, JOHN F***ING CARLSON, Josi, Markstrom (He misses markstrom and then has to trade for him later), Allen, Schultz, Stepan, Henrique, Nyquist, Atkinson(HE WAS AVAILABLE IN THE 6TH ROUND) Spurgeon Okay, not too bad right?? only about a dozen players that could have helped Vancouver win a cup in 2010-11 or extend our window to win. No big deal right? Just Erik Karlsson, John Carlson and Roman Josi who would have been stellar additions to the back end and Henrique, Atkinson, Stepan and Nyquist that would have helped up front. Okay so thats just the 2008 draft, no big deal. Now for 2009 2009 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2009 Entry 22 1 Jordan Schroeder L U. of Minnesota [WCHA] 165 18 24 42 14 2009 Entry 53 2 Anton Rodin R Brynas Jrs. (Sweden) 3 0 1 1 0 2009 Entry 83 3 Kevin Connauton D Western Michigan University [CCHA] 321 27 50 77 184 2009 Entry 113 4 Jeremy Price D Nepean Raiders [CJHL] 2009 Entry 143 5 Peter Andersson D Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden) 2009 Entry 173 6 Joe Cannata G Merrimack College [H-East] 2009 Entry 187 7 Steven Anthony L Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] Soooo Gillis drafted in the 20s... Thats understandable how you'd miss a few guys in the draft. buuuuuut like Johansson, Palmieri were still available in the 1st round and were picked 2 and 4 picks after. Also missed out on O'Reilly, Silvferberg, Orlov (He took another small player in Rodin instead of Orlov) Coulda took Tatar too. Then he missed out on a local kid, Tyson Barrie, McNabb, Reilly Smith, Casey Cizikas, Craig Smith, Mattias Ekholm, Sami Vatanen, Marcus Foligno, Mike Hoffman, thats Mike not Matt Hoffman the BMX dude. Also after he missed on those picks he missed out on Anders Lee who was a 7th round pick. Last but not least he missed out on Huala. OOOOKAY only like 20 players or something like that he completely f***ing missed out on. Time for 2010! 2010 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2010 Entry 115 4 Patrick McNally D Milton Academy [Mass.] 2010 Entry 145 5 Adam Polasek D Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL] 2010 Entry 172 6 Alex Friesen C Niagara IceDogs [OHL] 1 0 0 0 0 2010 Entry 175 6 Jonathan Iilahti G Blues Jrs (Finland) 2010 Entry 205 7 Sawyer Hannay D Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL] He missed out on.........wait a second.... No 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick..... yeesh. Well lets see what he missed out on in the 4th and beyond and lets see what he could have had in the first 3 rounds had he not traded the 1st round picks away. Coulda had Hyman, Klingberg, Ferland, Gallagher... Wouldnt those 2 have been nice to have to match Bostons grit in 2011, Ferland AAND Gallagher. Oh Then he took Friesen OVER MARK STONE WTF?!?!?!?! Mar 3, 2010 Carolina Hurricanes Acquire: 2010 3rd round pick (VAN - #85 - Austin Levi) Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Andrew Alberts So in the 3rd round There wasnt much to write home about, okay so no biggie for that trade. Still missed out on a few guys that were available in the latter rounds. The 2nd round pick that was traded was a Nonis move. So no fault for Gillis there.. But without a 2nd he moved a 1st and a 3rd. What did he move the 1st for? Oh here it is Jun 25, 2010 Florida Panthers Acquire: Steve Bernier Michael Grabner 2010 1st round pick (VAN - #25 - Quinton Howden) Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Keith Ballard Victor Oreskovich Sick deal bro. Steve Bernier, Michael Grabner and a 1st.... For Raymond Ballard and a 2nd. Sorry I mean Keith Ballard and Oreskovich. Ballard's 2010-11 stats: 2010-11 Vancouver Canucks NHL 65 2 5 7 53 10 10 0 0 0 6 Wow.....7 points...Thats okay he's a dman. How about Oreskovich, what was his 2010-11 Season like? 2010-11 Vancouver Canucks NHL 16 0 3 3 8 1 19 0 0 0 12 16gp in the regular season....3....assists..... 19 games in the playoffs........nada How about their counterparts that we acquired. Grabner: 2010-11 New York Islanders NHL 76 34 18 52 FIFTY TWO MOTHER F***ING POINTS!?!?!?!?? 34 F***ING GOALS.!?!?!??!>$TNOUW#HR*)NLFANWERJFNAWELKFBA Okay... okay... just breathe.... take a deep breath and breathe.... We gave them something completely sh*t im sure of it, something that made the 1st round pick worth trading away for. 2010-11 Florida Panthers NHL 68 5 10 15 21 -14 aaah okay there it is, Steve Bernier, 5 goals 10 assists 15 points and a dash 14. Thats what makes sense now, we gave up Grabner to dump his a$$ off and then we used the 1st round pick to get Ballard and Oreskovich! Brilliant play!!! Which.... what COULD we have had with that 1st? So our pick would have been 25th in that draft Guys that went after 25 and before the 4th round: 1 26 Washington Evgeny Kuznetsov C Chelyabinsk Traktor [KHL] 520 129 289 418 264 2020-21 1 28 San Jose Charlie Coyle C South Shore Kings [EJHL] 621 115 186 301 231 2020-21 1 30 NY Islanders Brock Nelson C Warroad H.S. [Minn.] 604 168 160 328 219 2020-21 2 37 Carolina Justin Faulk D U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 684 97 202 299 332 2020-21 2 47 Los Angeles Tyler Toffoli R Ottawa 67's [OHL] 577 173 171 344 174 2020-21 IF GILLIS WOULD HAVE DRAFTED TOFFOLI, BENNING WOULDNT HAVE HAD TO TRADE FOR HIM OMG WHAT TERRIBLE ASSET MANAGEMENT BENNING!!!!! 2 59 Minnesota Jason Zucker L U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 509 147 126 273 194 2020-21 3 66 Tampa Bay Radko Gudas D Everett Silvertips [WHL] 533 28 103 131 659 2020-21 3 80 Pittsburgh Bryan Rust R U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 364 100 112 212 122 2020-21 Gillis missed out on 2 players that helped the team that drafted them, win 1-2 cups. Toffoli 1 cup, Rust 2 cups. Both guys were key players for them too. Oh wait... Sorry forgot to add Kuznetsov, my bad. I can see how easy he is to forget. He has a cup too. Shall we continue???? Im having fun =D 2011 2011 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2011 Entry 29 1 Nicklas Jensen R Oshawa Generals [OHL] 31 3 3 6 10 2011 Entry 71 3 David Honzik G Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL] 2011 Entry 90 3 Alexandre Grenier R Quebec Remparts [QMJHL] 9 0 0 0 2 2011 Entry 101 4 Joseph LaBate L Holy Angels Academy (Minn.) 13 0 0 0 21 2011 Entry 120 4 Ludwig Blomstrand L Djurgarden Jrs. (Sweden) 2011 Entry 150 5 Frankie Corrado D Sudbury Wolves [OHL] 76 3 5 8 40 2011 Entry 180 6 Pathrik Westerholm L Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1] 2011 Entry 210 7 Henrik Tommernes D Frolunda HC [SEL] Nice to see Gillis add some size finally after all the sub 5'10 guys he spent drafting. Right after Jensen 1 30 Anaheim Rickard Rakell L Plymouth Whalers [OHL] 499 138 173 311 108 2020-21 Could have also had Mayfield who's been good for NYI, Jenner, Saad, Edmundson, William Karlsson, Trochek, Lowry were all picked after Jensen and before Vancouvers next pick. Then he missed out on Coleman. Took Grenier over John-Gabriel Pageau and Gaudreau Coulda had another greasey playoff player Andrew Shaw who won 2 cups. Best of all.. after almost 7 full rounds of drafting had finished, this guy was taken 4th last in the entire f***ing draft 7 208 Tampa Bay Ondrej Palat L Drummondville Voltigeurs [QMJHL] 551 125 249 374 177 2020-21 Mind you we picked 2 spots after.... however we did have 6 rounds prior to that to take him. PS in the 2011 draft Gillis managed to get <150 games played and only 14 points out of that draft, meanwhile he missed out on well over 1000 points. Alright 2012!! lets gooooooooooo! 2012 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2012 Entry 26 1 Brendan Gaunce C Belleville Bulls [OHL] 118 6 10 16 47 2012 Entry 57 2 Alexandre Mallet C Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL] 2012 Entry 147 5 Ben Hutton D Nepean Raiders [CCHL] 379 16 75 91 136 2012 Entry 177 6 Wesley Myron F Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL] 2012 Entry 207 7 Matthew Beattie R Exeter [N.H. H.S.] So we took Gaunce at 26... 1 30 Los Angeles Tanner Pearson L Barrie Colts [OHL] 508 118 115 233 158 2020-21 OMG BENNING YOU DID IT AGAIN YOU FLIPPIN IDIOT, YOU TRADED FOR PEARSON WHEN GILLIS COULD HAVE DRAFTED HIM!!! WHAT TERRIBLE ASSET MANAGEMENT! Pearson was available at 30.... we woulda had 2/3 of that 70's line.................We all know what that line accomplished. A F***ING STANLEY CUP. Also.... LAK was drafting so low.... how come they were able to hit a gold mine each time and won 2 cups?? This is in order.. 2 57 Vancouver Alexandre Mallet C Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL] 2 58 Phoenix Jordan Martinook L Vancouver Giants [WHL] 418 47 69 116 188 2020-21 2 59 NY Rangers Cristoval "Boo" Nieves C Kent School [Conn. H.S.] 76 5 14 19 24 2019-20 2 60 New Jersey Damon Severson D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 486 40 144 184 293 2020-21 2 61 Dallas Devin Shore C Whitby Fury [OJHL] 326 44 71 115 55 2020-21 3 78 Philadelphia Shayne Gostisbehere D Union College [ECAC] 381 60 159 219 129 2020-21 3 86 St. Louis Colton Parayko D Fort McMurray Oil Barons [AJHL] 418 41 130 171 119 2020-21 4 95 Columbus Josh Anderson R London Knights [OHL] 319 82 57 139 250 2020-21 4 110 Detroit Andreas Athanasiou C London Knights [OHL] 350 94 85 179 144 2020-21 4 120 Carolina Jaccob Slavin D Chicago Steel [USHL] 429 32 134 166 60 2020-21 5 150 New Jersey Alexander Kerfoot C Coquitlam Express [BCHL] 278 51 85 136 110 2020-21 5 151 Los Angeles Colin Miller D Soo Greyhounds [OHL] 349 27 95 122 240 2020-21 Am I doing good yet??? Last but not least...2013.... 2013 Entry 9 1 Bo Horvat C London Knights [OHL] 502 139 175 314 148 2013 Entry 24 1 Hunter Shinkaruk L Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL] 15 2 2 4 4 2013 Entry 85 3 Cole Cassels C Oshawa Generals [OHL] 2013 Entry 115 4 Jordan Subban D Belleville Bulls [OHL] 2013 Entry 145 5 Anton Cederholm D Rogle Jrs. (Sweden) 2013 Entry 175 6 Mike Williamson D Spruce Grove Saints [AJHL] 2013 Entry 205 7 Miles Liberati D London Knights [OHL] The best draft Mike Gillis ever had.... and it produced 1 single NHL player. He had 2 1st round picks, lets just see who else he missed on. 1 24 Vancouver Hunter Shinkaruk L Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL] 15 2 2 4 4 2016-17 1 25 Montreal Michael McCarron R U.S. National Development Team [USHL] 75 2 6 8 126 2020-21 1 26 Anaheim Shea Theodore D Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL] 317 44 127 171 103 2020-21 oooooooh yikes...... Shea Theodore..... what a swing and a f***ing miss. Also available was Ryan Hartman a 30th overall. Now lets start adding in alllll the other 2013 misses 2 58 Detroit Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL] 208 54 72 126 119 2020-21 3 66 Carolina Brett Pesce D U. of New Hampshire [H-East] 405 24 103 127 125 2020-21 3 75 NY Rangers Pavel Buchnevich R Cherepovets Jrs. (Russia) 301 79 116 195 112 2020-21 3 80 NY Rangers Anthony Duclair L Quebec Remparts [QMJHL] 396 89 105 194 133 2020-21 3 89 Columbus Oliver Bjorkstrand R Portland Winterhawks [WHL] 302 83 94 177 58 2020-21 3 77 Pittsburgh Jake Guentzel L Sioux City Musketeers [USHL] 299 121 136 257 120 2020-21 Oh hey look another guy that was a key player for Pitts cup wins. How many cups is that now? like 7 or 8? A lot of these missed players were KEY PLAYERS for PIT, TBL, CHI, STL, LAK. Your excuses of Gillis drafting low being fair to have a complete and total sh*t drafting record is absolutely garbage. He failed in every single round, couldnt land atleast ONE more good NHL player. His most notable draft picks are Horvat, Hodgson, Hutton..... 6 years of drafting, 2 players are still playing in the NHL.... Hodgson retired early and Hutton.....well hes a funny guy, not much of an NHLer. Horvat is the only guy who is actually carving out a career. I would say Benning's picks outside of the first round have so far outdone ALL of Gillis's picks except Horvat. Although I would make the argument that Demko may have something to say about that. Also... Ummmm McCann(24th) and Boeser(23rd)>>>>>>>>>>> Shinkaruk(24th) , Schroeder(22nd), Gaunce(26th), Hodgson(10th) Like I said, take a deep read on the last post before running your mouth. You know nothing about the Canucks, all you do is point out negative crap and you cant even back it up. And thanks to the drafting record of Gillis that I just broke down to you both @wai_lai416 @lmm You can see why Benning had his hands tied for the first couple years. Unless of course.... you'd rather him trade away Horvat to make that 2016 cup contending team a true contender @lmm You two need to stop talking before you embarrass yourselves any more. @lmm still waiting on you to answer some questions.......or have you had enough? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: LO And thanks to the drafting record of Gillis that I just broke down to you both @wai_lai416 @lmm You can see why Benning had his hands tied for the first couple years. Unless of course.... you'd rather him trade away Horvat to make that 2016 cup contending team a true contender @lmm You two need to stop talking before you embarrass yourselves any more. @lmm still waiting on you to answer some questions.......or have you had enough? yup I've had enough and I am embarrassing myself by continuing to expect an answer from you. You talk in circles you have gone from saying Jim was creating a playoff (CUP) contender in 2014-2018 to saying the Sedins did not have the support in 2014-2018 to asking me to defend Jim 's cup contender in 2014-18 yup I'll be moving along now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, Convincing John said: I added Podz. Is that what you’d like? Can we afford to trade Podz and a 1st to be a little better now? I'd like truthfull statements. Based in facts. As to what we can afford? Anything and anyone that does not have a a complete NTC/NMC is up for discussion. Given it is anything and anyone, I'd say that is more assetts that just a 1st, wouldn't you.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, lmm said: yup I've had enough and I am embarrassing myself by continuing to expect an answer from you. You talk in circles you have gone from saying Jim was creating a playoff (CUP) contender in 2014-2018 to saying the Sedins did not have the support in 2014-2018 to asking me to defend Jim 's cup contender in 2014-18 yup I'll be moving along now Did I call them cup contenders?? Or did I say he tried to win a cup for them? Did I not make it clear enough that the owners want playoff revenue?? Made playoffs from 2008-2013 missed the playoffs in 2014, made them in 2015 8th overall, had a down year in 16, miss the playoffs, its a one-off, we’ll be back there. 16-17 we missed again, hmm okay maybe not… 17-18 moved aging core guys out, missed playoffs, sedins retired, okay.. we are definitely a rebuilding team now… Benning, its all you, we understand we cant keep expecting playoffs at this point. Aaaand July 25th FA tweeted the official rebuild. Lolololol No support cast = no youth no youth = terrible drafting terrible drafting = Gillis Gillis = inherited a f***ing stanly cup contending core wake up bud. Smell the coffee. Nonis AAAND Gillis had a stretch of 8 years of crap drafting that did absolutely nothing for the future of the Canucks. 2016, 17 and 18 Benning began acquiring picks in any round he could, he managed to flip vets for picks, took some of those crap picks and turned them into younger part time NHLers He moved more draft picks in than he did out. When he realized that the team was looking decent he acquired Miller, after that the team was looking good, so he went and added Toffoli. Hard to work with teams and acquire decent players when all your prospects have ZERO potential and cant even help out your own team. Why the f**k would anyone make a completely lopsided deal knowing they are giving up a good player and not getting anything in return. Benning has gained a draft pick back in almost every trade. If not its a 1 for 1 deal or he makes the move to get a solid player back and ships out some picks. But in almost every single trade outside of Miller and Toffoli, he is getting picks. Sometimes moving down a few spots later in the draft to get 2 picks in return. I gave you answers, you have done absolutely nothing to answer mine. You want to talk hockey and make statements, you better have a better rebuttal than here take a look at how much he did in the last 7 years and the kinda crap he had to work with in trades. He made lots of small moves that he would work up a bit more. He hasnt had much to work with since he got here. Aged out core, with health issues, on the steady decline and guys with attitude problems. Like we cant even trade you or give you away to the Leafs fans for free, how do you think moving Kesler with a NMC and the choice of where he wants to go is going to go? Especially when he allegedly had a deal worked out with Chicago and Kesler then nixed the deal and refused to go and chose Anaheim and the deal had to be slapped together. SALARY DATE TRADE DETAILS Apr 12, 2021 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2021 6th round pick (WPG - #178) Sum: $0 Change: -$2,000,000 Winnipeg Jets Acquire: Jordie Benn · $2,000,000 Sum: $2,000,000 Change: +$2,000,000 Apr 12, 2021 Chicago Blackhawks Acquire: 2021 4th round pick (VAN - #105) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Madison Bowey · $0 2021 5th round pick (CHI - #140) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Apr 12, 2021 Chicago Blackhawks Acquire: Adam Gaudette · $950,000 Sum: $950,000 Change: +$225,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Matthew Highmore · $725,000 Sum: $725,000 Change: -$225,000 Oct 12, 2020 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Nate Schmidt · $5,950,000 Sum: $5,950,000 Change: +$5,950,000 Vegas Golden Knights Acquire: 2022 3rd round pick (VAN) Sum: $0 Change: -$5,950,000 Feb 24, 2020 New Jersey Devils Acquire: Zane McIntyre · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$75,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Louis Domingue · $75,000 (AHL/JR) Sum: $75,000 Change: +$75,000 Feb 17, 2020 Los Angeles Kings Acquire: Tim Schaller · $1,900,000 Tyler Madden · $0 (AHL/JR) (Signing Rights) 2020 2nd round pick (VAN - #51 - Theodor Niederbach) 2022 conditional 4th round pick* (VAN) *Conditions: Pick is transferred if Tyler Toffoli re-signs with the Vancouver Canucks Result: Toffoli did not re-sign with Vancouver. No pick is transferred. Sum: $1,900,000 Change: -$2,700,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Tyler Toffoli · $4,600,000 Sum: $4,600,000 Change: +$2,700,000 Oct 6, 2019 Detroit Red Wings Acquire: Alex Biega · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: David Pope · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 22, 2019 Buffalo Sabres Acquire: 2019 4th round pick (VAN - #102 - Aaron Huglen) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2019 4th round pick (SJS - #122 - Ethan Keppen) 2019 6th round pick (WPG - #175 - Karel Plasek) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 22, 2019 San Jose Sharks Acquire: Tom Pyatt · $0 (AHL/JR) (Signing Rights) 2019 6th round pick (VAN - #164 - Timur Ibragimov) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Francis Perron · $0 (AHL/JR) (Signing Rights) 2019 7th round pick (SJS - #215 - Arvid Costmar) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 22, 2019 Tampa Bay Lightning Acquire: Marek Mazanec · $0 (AHL/JR) (Signing Rights) 2019 3rd round pick (VAN - #71 - Hugo Alnefelt) 2020 conditional 1st round pick* (VAN - #20 - Shakir Mukhamadullin) *Conditions: If the Canucks do not make the playoffs in 2019-20, the 2020 1st round pick will transfer to a 2021 1st round pick instead. Result: Vancouver will transfer the 2020 1st round pick. Sum: $0 Change: -$5,250,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: J.T. Miller · $5,250,000 Sum: $5,250,000 Change: +$5,250,000 Feb 25, 2019 San Jose Sharks Acquire: Jonathan Dahlén · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Linus Karlsson · $0 (AHL/JR) (Signing Rights) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Feb 25, 2019 Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire: Erik Gudbranson · $4,000,000 Sum: $4,000,000 Change: +$250,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Tanner Pearson · $3,750,000 Sum: $3,750,000 Change: -$250,000 Feb 16, 2019 Edmonton Oilers Acquire: Sam Gagner · $2,125,000 (AHL/JR) Sum: $2,125,000 Change: +$50,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Ryan Spooner · $2,075,000 (AHL/JR) Sum: $2,075,000 Change: -$50,000 Feb 12, 2019 New York Rangers Acquire: 2020 7th round pick (VAN - #206 - Linus Öberg) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Marek Mazanec · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jan 17, 2019 Anaheim Ducks Acquire: Michael Del Zotto ($750,000 retained - 25%) · $2,250,000 Sum: $2,250,000 Change: +$2,250,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Luke Schenn · $0 (AHL/JR) 2020 7th round pick (ANA - #191 - Viktor Persson) Sum: $0 Change: -$2,250,000 Jan 2, 2019 Ottawa Senators Acquire: Darren Archibald · $0 (AHL/JR) Anders Nilsson · $2,500,000 Sum: $2,500,000 Change: +$1,725,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Mike McKenna · $700,000 Tom Pyatt · $75,000 (AHL/JR) 2019 6th round pick (OTT - #156 - Arturs Silovs) Sum: $775,000 Change: -$1,725,000 Dec 3, 2018 Toronto Maple Leafs Acquire: Michael Carcone · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$925,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Josh Leivo · $925,000 Sum: $925,000 Change: +$925,000 Jun 24, 2018 Chicago Blackhawks Acquire: Michael Chaput · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Tanner Kero · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 23, 2018 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2018 6th round pick (WSH - #186 - Artyom Manukyan) 2019 6th round pick (WSH - #180 - Jack Malone) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Washington Capitals Acquire: 2018 6th round pick (VAN - #161 - Alex Kannok-Leipert) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Feb 26, 2018 Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire: Thomas Vanek · $2,000,000 Sum: $2,000,000 Change: +$900,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Jussi Jokinen · $1,100,000 Tyler Motte · $925,000 Sum: $2,025,000 Change: +$25,000 Feb 26, 2018 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Brendan Leipsic · $650,000 Sum: $650,000 Change: -$275,000 Vegas Golden Knights Acquire: Philip Holm · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$650,000 Dec 8, 2017 Los Angeles Kings Acquire: Jordan Subban · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$640,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Nic Dowd · $640,000 Sum: $640,000 Change: +$640,000 Oct 3, 2017 Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire: Andrey Pedan · $0 (AHL/JR) 2018 4th round pick (VAN - #99 - Stanislav Demin) Sum: $0 Change: -$800,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Derrick Pouliot · $800,000 Sum: $800,000 Change: +$800,000 Jun 24, 2017 Chicago Blackhawks Acquire: 2017 4th round pick (SJS - #112 - Tim Söderlund) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2017 5th round pick (CAR - #135 - Kristoffer Gunnarsson) 2017 6th round pick (CHI - #181 - Petrus Palmu) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Mar 1, 2017 San Jose Sharks Acquire: Jannik Hansen ($500,000 retained - 20%) · $2,000,000 Sum: $2,000,000 Change: +$1,136,667 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Nikolay Goldobin · $863,333 2017 conditional 4th round pick* (SJS - #112 - Tim Söderlund) *Conditions: If San Jose wins the 2016/17 Cup, the conditional 4th round pick becomes a 1st round pick for the Canucks. Result: San Jose did not win the 2016/17 Stanley Cup. Vancouver receives Sharks 2017 4th round pick. Sum: $863,333 Change: -$1,136,667 Feb 27, 2017 Ottawa Senators Acquire: Alexandre Burrows · $4,500,000 Sum: $4,500,000 Change: +$4,500,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Jonathan Dahlén · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$4,500,000 May 25, 2016 Florida Panthers Acquire: Jared McCann · $894,167 2016 2nd round pick (VAN - #33 - Rasmus Asplund) 2016 4th round pick (VAN - #94 - Jonathan Ang) Sum: $894,167 Change: -$2,605,833 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Erik Gudbranson · $3,500,000 2016 5th round pick (NYI - #140 - Cole Candella) Sum: $3,500,000 Change: +$2,605,833 Mar 7, 2016 Carolina Hurricanes Acquire: Dane Fox · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Future Considerations Sum: $0 Change: $0 Feb 24, 2016 Edmonton Oilers Acquire: 2017 conditional 5th round pick* (VAN - #126 - Michael Karow) *Conditions: Becomes 4th round pick if Larsen maintains a 0.3Pts/Gm avg in 2016-17 (min of 42 gms) Result: Conditions not met. Edmonton receives Vancouver's 2017 5th round pick. Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Philip Larsen · $0 Sum: $0 Change: $0 Feb 22, 2016 Calgary Flames Acquire: Hunter Shinkaruk · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$767,500 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Markus Granlund · $767,500 Sum: $767,500 Change: +$767,500 Jan 8, 2016 New York Rangers Acquire: Nicklas Jensen · $0 (AHL/JR) 2017 6th round pick (VAN - #157 - Dominik Lakatos) Sum: $0 Change: -$850,500 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Emerson Etem · $850,500 Sum: $850,500 Change: +$850,500 Oct 21, 2015 Columbus Blue Jackets Acquire: John Tortorella (Coach) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2017 conditional 2nd round pick* (CBJ - #55 - Jonah Gadjovich) *Conditions: Vancouver will receive a 2nd round pick in 2016, 2017 or 2018. Result: Columbus will send Vancouver their 2017 2nd round pick. Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jul 28, 2015 Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire: Nick Bonino · $1,900,000 Adam Clendening · $761,250 2016 2nd round pick (ANA - #55 - Filip Gustavsson) Sum: $2,661,250 Change: -$638,750 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Brandon Sutter · $3,300,000 2016 conditional 3rd round pick* (VAN - #64 - William Lockwood) *Conditions: Vancouver receives higher of 2016 Vancouver 3rd or New York Islanders 3rd. Result: Vancouver receives their own 2016 3rd round pick Sum: $3,300,000 Change: +$638,750 Jul 1, 2015 Montreal Canadiens Acquire: Zack Kassian · $1,750,000 2016 5th round pick (VAN - #124 - Casey Staum) Sum: $1,750,000 Change: -$750,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Brandon Prust · $2,500,000 Sum: $2,500,000 Change: +$750,000 Jun 30, 2015 Anaheim Ducks Acquire: Kevin Bieksa · $4,600,000 Sum: $4,600,000 Change: +$4,600,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2016 2nd round pick (ANA - #55 - Filip Gustavsson) Sum: $0 Change: -$4,600,000 Jun 27, 2015 San Jose Sharks Acquire: Patrick McNally · $0 Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2015 7th round pick (TBL - #210 - Tate Olson) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 27, 2015 Carolina Hurricanes Acquire: Eddie Läck · $1,150,000 Sum: $1,150,000 Change: +$1,150,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2015 3rd round pick (CAR - #66 - Guillaume Brisebois) 2016 7th round pick (CAR - #194 - Brett McKenzie) Sum: $0 Change: -$1,150,000 Mar 2, 2015 Calgary Flames Acquire: 2015 2nd round pick (VAN - #53 - Rasmus Andersson) Sum: $0 Change: -$894,167 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Sven Baertschi · $894,167 Sum: $894,167 Change: +$894,167 Mar 2, 2015 New York Islanders Acquire: Dustin Jeffrey · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: -$600,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Cory Conacher · $600,000 Sum: $600,000 Change: +$600,000 Jan 29, 2015 Chicago Blackhawks Acquire: Gustav Forsling · $0 (Signing Rights) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Adam Clendening · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Nov 25, 2014 New York Islanders Acquire: Alexandre Mallet · $0 (AHL/JR) 2016 3rd round pick (VAN - #64 - William Lockwood) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Andrey Pedan · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Nov 20, 2014 Edmonton Oilers Acquire: Kellan Lain · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Will Acton · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 28, 2014 Los Angeles Kings Acquire: 2014 2nd round pick (TBL - #50 - Roland McKeown) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Linden Vey · $0 (AHL/JR) Sum: $0 Change: $0 Jun 27, 2014 New York Rangers Acquire: 2014 3rd round pick (ANA - #85 - Keegan Iverson) Sum: $0 Change: -$1,633,333 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Derek Dorsett · $1,633,333 Sum: $1,633,333 Change: +$1,633,333 Jun 27, 2014 Anaheim Ducks Acquire: Ryan Kesler · $5,000,000 2015 3rd round pick (VAN - #84 - Deven Sideroff) Sum: $5,000,000 Change: +$925,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: Luca Sbisa · $2,175,000 Nick Bonino · $1,900,000 2014 1st round pick (ANA - #24 - Jared McCann) 2014 3rd round pick (ANA - #85 - Keegan Iverson) Sum: $4,075,000 Change: -$925,000 Jun 27, 2014 Tampa Bay Lightning Acquire: Jason Garrison · $4,600,000 Jeff Costello · $0 (Signing Rights) 2015 7th round pick (VAN - #204 - Jack Sadek) Sum: $4,600,000 Change: +$4,600,000 Vancouver Canucks Acquire: 2014 2nd round pick (TBL - #50 - Roland McKeown) Sum: $0 Change: -$4,600,000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: LOOOOOOOOOOOOL Gillis's team??? The game is called Hindsight Mike Gillis's drafting.......Lets start with 2008 at the beginning Gillis missed out on 2 players that helped the team that drafted them, win 1-2 cups. Shall we continue???? Im having fun =D Nice to see Gillis add some size finally after all the sub 5'10 guys he spent drafting. PS in the 2011 draft Gillis managed to get <150 games played and only 14 points out of that draft, meanwhile he missed out on well over 1000 points. I would say Benning's picks outside of the first round have so far outdone ALL of Gillis's picks except Horvat. And thanks to the drafting record of Gillis that I just broke down When all else fails its the old "its all Gillis's fault" excuse. You win at the game of Hindsight! Congratulations! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, gurn said: I'd like truthfull statements. Based in facts. As to what we can afford? Anything and anyone that does not have a a complete NTC/NMC is up for discussion. Given it is anything and anyone, I'd say that is more assetts that just a 1st, wouldn't you.? Is an asset something that leaves a hole? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, kilgore said: When all else fails its the old "its all Gillis's fault" excuse. You win at the game of Hindsight! Congratulations! Welll… its true isnt it?? What DID Gillis do? What DID Gillis leave behind? What DID Benning have to work with in terms of prospects? Burke and Nonis are the 2 who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team. Gillis added a couple players. Thats it. He inherited everything. Nonis and Gillis went from 2006 to 2014 with only having Bo Horvat to show for it and thats only because we traded Schneider. Otherwise we would be even more f***ed If anyone can answer me as to what Gillis actually did during his time here that benefitted the future, im all ears. I can easily blame Gillis because i can see how he left this place in a crippled state and Benning had to pick up the pieces… sorry he had to draft his own pieces because there was 8 years of failure prior to that. The only other decent pick was Grabner who got moved in the 2010… so there goes the only other decent prospect who had a few good years under his belt before fizzling out. Gillis did not do enough during the competitive window to win, to extend the window. Which is why it came to a crashing end in 2013-14. He held onto the 2010-11 finals appearance too long, didnt do much to change what was working, but what also failed in the end. If Burke and Nonis are the guys who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team… then we have been held together by drafting from 99 and up to 2005 and the Luongo trade. Gillis did….. what exactly? Hamhuis.. okay cool good move to an already good core…. Gave away a “top” prospect a 1st and Bernier (woopty doo) for Ballard and Oreskovich…. Terrible move. What else? Sure there was Lappy, Higgy and Erhoff as well. But its not like he took a basement team and built them into some great success story. Vancouver was still a playoff team like 5/7 years leading up to Gillis joining the Canucks Edited July 7, 2021 by knucklehead91 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 5 hours ago, AbrasiveAjax said: You laughed at your own joke Yeah when things are funny you normally laugh.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, gurn said: Already have. No… just no…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Wayne Glensky said: No… just no…. Yes, just yes. I'll take either Sedin before Kuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_19 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) I'm glad we haven't. You know what some of the big names we've signed were? Barry Pederson, Mark Messier, Alex Mogilny, and Mats Sundin. We went nowhere with them. Big name trades haven't served this team well, I think the only debateable one is Luongo. We've had our best seasons where we traded for supplemental parts and made them better. There's no real shortcut to having to draft and develop your core instead of trading for it. Edited July 7, 2021 by AK_19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said: Welll… its true isnt it?? What DID Gillis do? What DID Gillis leave behind? What DID Benning have to work with in terms of prospects? Burke and Nonis are the 2 who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team. Gillis added a couple players. Thats it. He inherited everything. Nonis and Gillis went from 2006 to 2014 with only having Bo Horvat to show for it and thats only because we traded Schneider. Otherwise we would be even more f***ed If anyone can answer me as to what Gillis actually did during his time here that benefitted the future, im all ears. I can easily blame Gillis because i can see how he left this place in a crippled state and Benning had to pick up the pieces… sorry he had to draft his own pieces because there was 8 years of failure prior to that. The only other decent pick was Grabner who got moved in the 2010… so there goes the only other decent prospect who had a few good years under his belt before fizzling out. Gillis did not do enough during the competitive window to win, to extend the window. Which is why it came to a crashing end in 2013-14. He held onto the 2010-11 finals appearance too long, didnt do much to change what was working, but what also failed in the end. If Burke and Nonis are the guys who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team… then we have been held together by drafting from 99 and up to 2005 and the Luongo trade. Gillis did….. what exactly? Hamhuis.. okay cool good move to an already good core…. Gave away a “top” prospect a 1st and Bernier (woopty doo) for Ballard and Oreskovich…. Terrible move. What else? Sure there was Lappy, Higgy and Erhoff as well. But its not like he took a basement team and built them into some great success story. Vancouver was still a playoff team like 5/7 years leading up to Gillis joining the Canucks Its been 7 1/2 years ffs! Under Gillis we went to the SCF. We won the Presidents Cup twice. You expect a GM to stock up on high draft picks, and fill the cupboards, AND go for it all at the same time? I can imagine that if we'd actually won game 7 Gillis would not be so maligned. And those bare cupboards would be a small price to pay. As it is, if you go purely by accomplishments, he could be regarded as our greatest most successful GM in our history, which isn't saying much I know. Some may not credit the work of an amateur scouting department as much as the GM, but IMO there is a direct correlation with how dismal our drafting history under Delorme was, who was kept on for decades...decades!, despite the failures. Gillis said that that is one of his biggest regrets, not changing that department. Drafting wasn't Gillis's strong point, so he left all those decisions in the hands of Delorme. Benning's improved drafting, likewise changed for the better this time, when he hired Judd Brackett. Who had deep connections with the US college hockey scene and helped dig up Gaudette, Demko, Boeser, Madden and others. Which is why it was more than puzzling, after the Canucks, in all their sad sorry drafting history, and finally on the right track, JB squeezed out Brackett for his troubles. That dumb decision was one more straw on the camels back for me at the time. And it was Gillis, by all reports, that realized the state of the team at the end of his tenure, which Torts did a couple years later with the "stale" comment, and that it needed a full on rebuild. For which Mike was shown the door. So even though he, or his decision to keep Delorme, gave us not much on the farm....at least he recognized the need and was willing to do something to rectify it. Something that JB (probably under the thumb of Aqualinis) did not think was necessary. But but but what about the NTC, and NMCs? Sorry, but that is why JB's paid the big bucks. Find creative solutions. and it wasn't that JB couldn't move players from our old core, it was that he didn't even try, until later and only half azzed. And instead added more over-valued vets onto the pile every off season. While handing out picks and prospects like candy and banning the R word. IMO one should stop blaming the last GM at most 3 years in. Its grasping at straws. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Rebuilding teams arent exactly destinations. Immediately after our playoff run we were starting to hear about more players wanting to come here, but after this last disaster of a season we're again not hearing a lot, which is to be expected. As far as the assets to make trades is concerned, the truth is we do have some assets, but most consider those assets to be untouchable or close to. Some of it can be attributed to contracts being handed out to declining players who's value has declined to nothingness as well. Point is there are a lot of different reasons, some of which can be attributed to management and some of which can be attributed to where the team is in it's lifespan. It's not really hard to figure out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 13 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: how dare Gillis's team finish top 8 in the league every year how dare he only have late 1st round pick every year that most teams in the league would whiff on. how dare he doesn't have any top 6 picks every year to fill the prospect pool. news flash most team that's been sitting near the top of the league standing have pretty bare prospect pools. so what did benning do? whiffs on his 2 top 6 picks traded away mccann for a pylon that he felt the need to re-sign right away. then started tossing away draft picks and prospect and gotten no return out of it.. it's actually pretty pathetic how little top end or or above average prospect we have during benning's tenure so far that's even still with the team considering we have like the 3rd or 5th worse record in the league since benning took over. woo lind rathbone lockwood gadjovich etc are nothing really to get excited about. outside of the 1st round what does benning have to show for? demko and Hoglander.. batting only 60% on top 10 picks not including podz which is tbd. but probably in your eyes all our prospect are gonna be nhl impact player or something. our prospect pool is loaded etc etc etc. I've seen your posts enough times to know that you'll ignore anything that counters your points, and you'll just circle back to your own point. I think it's obvious that a certain group of posters will always bow towards Gillis like he's some kind of infallible god. While he did good things, the bad is really, really difficult to ignore. And what you're doing right now is painful to read. Gillis wrecked this team so hard. As @knucklehead91 wrote in his super detailed post, which you'll probably never read because you won't have anything to come back with, a lot of the pieces o this team had little to do with Gillis. Tanev is one of the players he acquired, but aside from Horvat (who was acquired by trading Schneider - a goalie that gillis didn't draft), his drafting is piss poor. In pursuit of the cup, he basically bankrupted the team. Look no further than the time period between the end of his tenure and Benning's. People are quick to say 7 years had passed. Well, anytime during Gillis' regime, he could've drafted an Edler replacement. Guess who's still on the team? Edler. And it had nothing to do with Gillis. There's a reason why Gillis isn't seemingly welcome back in the NHL. He's been blackballed. Part of this reason was that he burned a lot of bridges with GMs, so the only trades he did were the ones where he got blatantly ripped off. And for all the praise that Gillis gets for signing players, you have to wonder how much he lucked out on the ones he signed for cheap. In general, Gillis inherited his core, and nearly destroyed this team in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, kilgore said: Its been 7 1/2 years ffs! Under Gillis we went to the SCF. We won the Presidents Cup twice. You expect a GM to stock up on high draft picks, and fill the cupboards, AND go for it all at the same time? I can imagine that if we'd actually won game 7 Gillis would not be so maligned. And those bare cupboards would be a small price to pay. As it is, if you go purely by accomplishments, he could be regarded as our greatest most successful GM in our history, which isn't saying much I know. Some may not credit the work of an amateur scouting department as much as the GM, but IMO there is a direct correlation with how dismal our drafting history under Delorme was, who was kept on for decades...decades!, despite the failures. Gillis said that that is one of his biggest regrets, not changing that department. Drafting wasn't Gillis's strong point, so he left all those decisions in the hands of Delorme. Benning's improved drafting, likewise changed for the better this time, when he hired Judd Brackett. Who had deep connections with the US college hockey scene and helped dig up Gaudette, Demko, Boeser, Madden and others. Which is why it was more than puzzling, after the Canucks, in all their sad sorry drafting history, and finally on the right track, JB squeezed out Brackett for his troubles. That dumb decision was one more straw on the camels back for me at the time. And it was Gillis, by all reports, that realized the state of the team at the end of his tenure, which Torts did a couple years later with the "stale" comment, and that it needed a full on rebuild. For which Mike was shown the door. So even though he, or his decision to keep Delorme, gave us not much on the farm....at least he recognized the need and was willing to do something to rectify it. Something that JB (probably under the thumb of Aqualinis) did not think was necessary. But but but what about the NTC, and NMCs? Sorry, but that is why JB's paid the big bucks. Find creative solutions. and it wasn't that JB couldn't move players from our old core, it was that he didn't even try, until later and only half azzed. And instead added more over-valued vets onto the pile every off season. While handing out picks and prospects like candy and banning the R word. IMO one should stop blaming the last GM at most 3 years in. Its grasping at straws. Gillis didn't draft a single worthy draft pick, except Horvat. Hutton is a pretty minor piece. And hilariously, Horvat was only obtained by trading an asset that he could never draft - GOALTENDING. Gillis was a massive failure at drafting and player development. This has to be acknowledged if you're going to be taken seriously. As it stands, you are a Gillis loyalist, completely blind to the fact that he nearly wrecked this team with his awful trades. Grabner + 1st for Ballard was godawful. I knew it was going to be bad the day it happened. You don't throw away assets when the regime was not adept at drafting/developing. That's how your core gets stale. Edited July 8, 2021 by Dazzle 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: Welll… its true isnt it?? What DID Gillis do? What DID Gillis leave behind? He kept the core together and brought in support that made it an elite team for a brief window and got within a game of winning us our first cup (twice.) you can't discount that. He left behind a team with enough pieces to be a 100pt team that could have pivoted to a retool or rebuild depending on how mgmt approached it - Our MVP Goalie (Marky) - The top two pairing D for Benning's teams for the majority of his regime prior to drafting Hughes he still hasn't fully replaced (Edler-Tanev) - Our current Captain - A tradeable coveted 2C in Kesler - Quality Depth players in Burrows/Hansen/Bieksa/Hamhuis/Garrison/Higgins Quote What DID Benning have to work with in terms of prospects? Burke and Nonis are the 2 who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team. Gillis added a couple players. Thats it. He inherited everything. Nothing in terms of prospects, that is Gillis' biggest failure, but a rebuild was never his mandate, it was to always compete. So I wouldn't say it's totally fair to pin that on him he was in the middle of restructuring the drafting department for a rebuild when he got canned. So we will never know. Burke and Nonis get credit for drafting the core for sure, but Gillis was the one who signed them to team friendly deals and got them to buy into his philosophy and plan. Benning is approaching this stage with Petey and Hughes. As we saw with Dubas in Toronto, inheriting players and assembling them into a team that can perform under cap isn't easy, especially for a rookie GM, i think in comparison Gillis did alright here. Quote Nonis and Gillis went from 2006 to 2014 with only having Bo Horvat to show for it and thats only because we traded Schneider. Otherwise we would be even more f***ed If anyone can answer me as to what Gillis actually did during his time here that benefitted the future, im all ears. That wasn't his mandate. It was to win a cup with the team in its prime. You sacrifice your futures to improve for that window. Just like how you're arguing it's unfair to judge Benning by the standards of a rebuild for the 2014-17 period, you're applying that standard to Gillis when he had a cup contending team that as expected to trade futures away. If anything i'm shocked we kept our 2011 pick rather than trade it for immediate help. He never had a chance to lay the foundation for a future, he started with Horvat (Which we are reaping the rewards of now) but to the extent of how well he could do it we will never know. Quote I can easily blame Gillis because i can see how he left this place in a crippled state and Benning had to pick up the pieces… sorry he had to draft his own pieces because there was 8 years of failure prior to that. The only other decent pick was Grabner who got moved in the 2010… so there goes the only other decent prospect who had a few good years under his belt before fizzling out. Chris Tanev and Markstrom I think was Gillis' best acquisitions outside of Horvat. He also had a 100 pt team to start his time here. I can't stress this enough. Benning didn't start with nothing. The cupboards were bare yes, and the drafting sucked historically (i'll show that later) but the team roster itself was an asset. (Sedins aside, no one was moving them) Quote Gillis did not do enough during the competitive window to win, to extend the window. Which is why it came to a crashing end in 2013-14. He held onto the 2010-11 finals appearance too long, didnt do much to change what was working, but what also failed in the end. I attributed it to the career trajectory of the Sedins, as amazing as they were, they peaked extremely late and had a very brief window. But I don't hold it against them. The issue here was one of Ownership/management learned the wrong lessons from 2011 and decided to change the team identity to something that did not work, size and grit. If we had stuck to our guns like Tampa did after their sweep in 2019 (and Duncan Keith's elbow hit somewhere else....), potentially we could have extended that window just a little bit longer. With 2013 and how Gillis said he wanted to get back to the game that made the team successful (speed and skill) and was immediately fired for that, my opinion is Aquilini was the one who blinked when he stared into that abyss of the Game 7 loss. Quote If Burke and Nonis are the guys who deserve credit for the 2010-11 team… then we have been held together by drafting from 99 and up to 2005 and the Luongo trade. Gillis did….. what exactly? Hamhuis.. okay cool good move to an already good core…. Gave away a “top” prospect a 1st and Bernier (woopty doo) for Ballard and Oreskovich…. Terrible move. What else? Sure there was Lappy, Higgy and Erhoff as well. But its not like he took a basement team and built them into some great success story. Vancouver was still a playoff team like 5/7 years leading up to Gillis joining the Canucks Tanev, Hamhuis, Samuelsson, Higgins, LaPierre, Ehrhoff. You asked what Gillis did exactly, he put together a good team with great support pieces. What more can you ask for? He can't do this and have the expectation of leaving behind an elite prospect pool. And correct, Gillis didn't take a basement team, he took an underperforming playoff team and gave them a shot at a cup. Ballard and Oreskovich is hindsight. We needed a replacement for Mitchell (oh what could have been....) i won't deny scouting sucked back then for us but at the time of the trade, people were on board with the value. This isn't your point haha but I will apply that kind of thinking to Benning's first season, why is 2014/15 heralded by some as a huge turnaround success story when Gillis made playoffs 5/6 years before that? 2014 wasn't a basement team either. My point. Let's not lose perspective on either scenario here. Edited July 8, 2021 by DSVII 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DSVII said: He kept the core together and brought in support that made it an elite team for a brief window and got within a game of winning us our first cup (twice.) you can't discount that. He left behind a team with enough pieces to be a 100pt team that could have pivoted to a retool or rebuild depending on how mgmt approached it - Our MVP Goalie (Marky) - The top two pairing D for Benning's teams for the majority of his regime prior to drafting Hughes he still hasn't fully replaced (Edler-Tanev) - Our current Captain - A tradeable coveted 2C in Kesler - Quality Depth players in Burrows/Hansen/Bieksa/Hamhuis/Garrison/Higgins Nothing in terms of prospects, that is Gillis' biggest failure, but a rebuild was never his mandate, it was to always compete. So I wouldn't say it's totally fair to pin that on him he was in the middle of restructuring the drafting department for a rebuild when he got canned. So we will never know. Burke and Nonis get credit for drafting the core for sure, but Gillis was the one who signed them to team friendly deals and got them to buy into his philosophy and plan. Benning is approaching this stage with Petey and Hughes. As we saw with Dubas in Toronto, inheriting players and assembling them into a team that can perform under cap isn't easy, especially for a rookie GM, i think in comparison Gillis did alright here. That wasn't his mandate. It was to win a cup with the team in its prime. You sacrifice your futures to improve for that window. Just like how you're arguing it's unfair to judge Benning by the standards of a rebuild for the 2014-18 period, you're applying that standard to Gillis when he had a cup contending team that as expected to trade futures away. If anything i'm shocked we kept our 2011 pick rather than trade it for immediate help. He never had a chance to lay the foundation for a future, he started with Horvat (Which we are reaping the rewards of now) but to the extent of how well he could do it we will never know. Chris Tanev I think was Gillis' best scouting acquisition outside of Horvat. He also had a 100 pt team to start his time here. I can't stress this enough. Benning didn't start with nothing. The cupboards were bare yes, and the drafting sucked historically (i'll show that later) but the team roster itself was an asset. (Sedins aside, no one was moving them) I attributed it to the career trajectory of the Sedins, as amazing as they were, they peaked extremely late and had a very brief window. But I don't hold it against them. The issue here was one of Ownership/management learned the wrong lessons from 2011 and decided to change the team identity to something that did not work, size and grit. If we had stuck to our guns like Tampa did after their sweep in 2019 (and Duncan Keith's elbow hit somewhere else....), potentially we could have extended that window just a little bit longer. With 2013 and how Gillis said he wanted to get back to the game that made the team successful (speed and skill) and was immediately fired for that, my opinion is Aquilini was the one who blinked when he stared into that abyss of the Game 7 loss. Tanev, Hamhuis, Samuelsson, Higgins, LaPierre, Ehrhoff. You asked what Gillis did exactly, he put together a good team with great support pieces. What more can you ask for? He can't do this and have the expectation of leaving behind an elite prospect pool. And correct, Gillis didn't take a basement team, he took an underperforming playoff team and gave them a shot at a cup. Ballard and Oreskovich is hindsight. We needed a replacement for Mitchell (oh what could have been....) i won't deny scouting sucked back then for us but at the time of the trade, people were on board with the value. This isn't your point haha but I will apply that kind of thinking to Benning's first season, why is 2014/15 heralded by some as a huge turnaround success story when Gillis made playoffs 5/6 years before that? 2014 wasn't a basement team either. My point. Let's not lose perspective on either scenario here. This is a ton of revisionism and historical inaccuracy. Scouting is a major factor for Gillis' downfall. It's the reason why Gillis never could replace his roster and had to rely on trades. A lot of those trades he got screwed on. And if you notice, he only had a select group of teams that he could trade with. He was blackballed essentially with his trading partners. Gillis wasn't that good, aside from cheap contracts that paid off. He left no replacement for the Sedins. No replacement for Edler. He had no plan to replace the lost draft picks. The result? A stale core. What Benning inherited was a bunch of C-level prospects, and a mediocre/declining roster. Bonino was likely the most valuable asset out of Gillis' tenure. Sedins were clearly on the decline + untradable. As for Hamhuis, there were reports that he exercised his NTC to nix the trade to Dallas, only for him to sign to Dallas later on as a free agent. Edited July 8, 2021 by Dazzle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, kilgore said: Its been 7 1/2 years ffs! Under Gillis we went to the SCF. We won the Presidents Cup twice. You expect a GM to stock up on high draft picks, and fill the cupboards, AND go for it all at the same time? I can imagine that if we'd actually won game 7 Gillis would not be so maligned. And those bare cupboards would be a small price to pay. As it is, if you go purely by accomplishments, he could be regarded as our greatest most successful GM in our history, which isn't saying much I know. Some may not credit the work of an amateur scouting department as much as the GM, but IMO there is a direct correlation with how dismal our drafting history under Delorme was, who was kept on for decades...decades!, despite the failures. Gillis said that that is one of his biggest regrets, not changing that department. Drafting wasn't Gillis's strong point, so he left all those decisions in the hands of Delorme. Benning's improved drafting, likewise changed for the better this time, when he hired Judd Brackett. Who had deep connections with the US college hockey scene and helped dig up Gaudette, Demko, Boeser, Madden and others. Which is why it was more than puzzling, after the Canucks, in all their sad sorry drafting history, and finally on the right track, JB squeezed out Brackett for his troubles. That dumb decision was one more straw on the camels back for me at the time. And it was Gillis, by all reports, that realized the state of the team at the end of his tenure, which Torts did a couple years later with the "stale" comment, and that it needed a full on rebuild. For which Mike was shown the door. So even though he, or his decision to keep Delorme, gave us not much on the farm....at least he recognized the need and was willing to do something to rectify it. Something that JB (probably under the thumb of Aqualinis) did not think was necessary. But but but what about the NTC, and NMCs? Sorry, but that is why JB's paid the big bucks. Find creative solutions. and it wasn't that JB couldn't move players from our old core, it was that he didn't even try, until later and only half azzed. And instead added more over-valued vets onto the pile every off season. While handing out picks and prospects like candy and banning the R word. IMO one should stop blaming the last GM at most 3 years in. Its grasping at straws. Please, read my entire reply so that you can maybe see it from a different perspective Tampa Bay, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Boston,.,,. just a few recent winning teams in memory who… won cups… were top of the league for several years and still managed to draft high end NHL talent deeper in the draft… Why couldnt Gillis/Delorme?? Gillis failed to address the drafting issue, wound up with nearly zero prospects, failed to add youth, instead he shipped it out for UFAs and handed out NMCs to everyone in town. So Benning takes over, makes changes to the areas that are weak, has no prospects to work with and cant part with draft picks to make drastic improvements because we have no bloody prospects It is entirely fair to blame Gillis for the situation we were in for the first 4 years You need to first draft players, then you need to develop them. That takes time. So yes 6 years of failed drafting, actually 8 years of failed drafting puts us very far behind. Benning begins drafting, changing his scouting department, lands a stud in Boeser at #23 and he starts making an impact instantly, then we get Pettersson, Demko, Hughes, Hoglander and because they are players that made an instant impact to the team, it fast forwards some of the pain of a rebuild. Sure Virtanen was a whiff but how much of that is Bennings scouting and how much of that was influenced by previous regime’s scouting? Benning was working with Boston looking at guys at the bottom of the draft. He left May 21st and joined the Canucks, the draft was June 26th. Something tells me he walked into Delorme’s plan they went with it and it didnt work. Boston took Pasta and had a bunch of other really great picks further down, could that be Bennings influence on their lower picks? Boston hasnt drafted anything decent since and they did that while contending for a cup, so no stop making f***ing excuses for Gillis’s failed drafting. He didnt address the issue in that department and that is entirely on him. Like how do you not see that failed drafting for nearly a decade puts the Canucks further and further behind on keeping up with the rest of the league who are drafting and developing? Tell me what would Toronto and Edmonton be without McDavid or Matthews? They would still be a lottery team. They got very very lucky to draft two of the best players on the planet that helped speed up their repeated years of failed drafting/rebuilding. We havent been as “fortunate” to draft a McDavid or a Matthews, Crosby or Ovechkin who all are top of the world players, they helped their teams rebuilds transform over night. If you arent drafting those kinda guys, your rebuild aint happening over night, its going to take a few days or weeks. This is why it has taken Benning “7” years to rebuild. First they tried for a couple years trying to slap a team together to win a cup for the Sedins, they(the owners and management) I believe, out of respect and also the desire for playoff revenue would not put the Sedins through a rebuild to end their careers. They kept the dream alive as best as possible until the day they retired. It was 4 years of failure. We drafted and managed to insert youth to prepare for the changing of the guard, ie the Sedins retiring. After the Sedins retired it left 2 massive holes on the roster to fill. NOW we need eeeeeven more youth and top talent type of players to add to the roster and fill those shoes. Benning successfully found a gem in Pettersson, he turned out to be one hell of a player… but we still needed another guy to replace one of the Sedins…. Enter JT Miller, a guy that can play right away and wont take years to draft and hopefully develop into a star player. Now we are enroute to being a playoff team, whats that you say?? Playoffs??? We are looking like a playoff team only 2 years after the 2 franchise leading players retired???? Woah hold up, if we are POSSIBLY heading to playoffs… lets make a move to make damn sure we make the playoffs, enter the Toffoli trade. Now the flat cap really screwed us if we hoped to resign Toffoli and I have already linked it the breakdown of the trade on Feb 27th, March the cap was STILL expected to rise, COVID shut the regular season down, June there was an announcement by Bill Daley that the cap was still expected to go up aaaaand then boom july 10th the announcement was that the cap would remain flat. Petey is vulnerable to an offersheet and him and Hughes need new deals plus we only have 16mil in space. You see 7 years of failure, yet you arent acknowledging the first successful season under Benning, last years season and the exciting playoff run and then ultimately this year and how f***ed up it was and how unfair it was. Go check out my post about the scheduling and COVID, i really urge you to understand how bad this year was and how it should not be a season to judge anyone. All you focus on is 7, 7 years as 1 single term as the GM and you see nothing else. I see his 7 years as 4 terms. The first 4 were the failed Sedin retool years. The next term was year was the 2018-19 beginning of the rebuild. The year after that Benning added to the team and we became a competitive team, then we have this year, the COVID f***ed year and its not going down on his record or anyones record. And trust me, Im getting sick of listening to Green speak in interviews, but I’m willing to give him a pass this season and let him have a fresh slate next season, but he and Benning have 2 years to prove something. If nothing looks better by the end of Greens extension, I will be onboard with a changeover behind the bench and above the ice. Next season is 100% fair and if things arent imrpoving I will give Benning a strike, he has 1 strike for how he has survived for 7 years, but I can understand the breakdown of his term. if the following season is a failure, Thats strike 3. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Dazzle said: This is a ton of revisionism and historical inaccuracy. Scouting is a major factor for Gillis' downfall. It's the reason why Gillis never could replace his roster and had to rely on trades. A lot of those trades he got screwed on. And if you notice, he only had a select group of teams that he could trade with. He was blackballed essentially with his trading partners. Gillis wasn't that good, aside from cheap contracts that paid off. He left no replacement for the Sedins. No replacement for Edler. He had no plan to replace the lost draft picks. The result? A stale core. It's my opinion as a fan, just as you have yours. But what part of this is revisionist? What is inaccurate? enlighten me. He left no replacement for the Sedins because he had no chance to draft one. TBH when he got fired, I was willing to give him one more year to follow up the Horvat draft, but I didn't shed tears either when he was gone. Doesnt' change the fact he never had a chance to rebuild, why judge him based on the merits of one? If we fired McPhee today for not winning the cup, do we blame him for leaving no prospects behind in the Vegas prospect pool because he traded Suzuki to take Patches for that immediate help? I believe that was a disadvantage he had, being 'blackballed'. A player agent as a GM was something that the old boys club of GMs in the league never did accept. Did it hamper his ability to make deals? Yes. Do I use it to make judgements on his competency? Not really. Quote What Benning inherited was a bunch of C-level prospects, and a mediocre/declining roster. Bonino was likely the most valuable asset out of Gillis' tenure. Sedins were clearly on the decline + untradable. As for Hamhuis, there were reports that he exercised his NTC to nix the trade to Dallas, only for him to sign to Dallas later on as a free agent. Tanev, Garrison, Bieksa, Burrows all netted returns and were assets. How Benning decided to trade them/let them decline has no bearing on Gillis imo. Won't argue the C-level prospect part. Ironically, what we need now from Benning though, is to show that similar aptitude Gillis had for assembling that supporting cast. Drafting is not the end all be all. What you do with the drafted players is just as important (the dreaded 'asset management') so here's hoping he can navigate that. Edited July 8, 2021 by DSVII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 @DSVIII’ll hit ya back later tonight after the game. I’ll get back to you on each point, I will say now that yes Gillis was great at enticing players to come to Vancouver, but the Canucks themselves were enough to entice a player to sign, without the help of Gillis. Contending teams attract on their own and players will take paycuts to go to a winning team. The goal is the cup and players will sign for a little less than market value, but they’ll want a NMC or NTC so that I can stay with this winning group in hopes to be part of a cup winning team. They dont want to be used as an asset a year or 2 later to get flipped to a crappy team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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