The focus should be on re-building the Defense (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Hi Everyone

 

I have just been reading Canuck proposals, here and on HF Boards.

 

There is alot of proposals that are adding to the forwards.

 

I just want to say, our focus, should be on rebuilding the defense

 

It is the single biggest problem we have.

 

As I said in an earlier post........I am inclined to have Hughes play on the second pairing

 

and if all goes as planned, having Rathbone and ??????, play 1st line

 

That is not to say that Hughes will not get big minutes, only that Rathbone will get more even strength minutes

 

There are plenty of ways to play this in terms of personnel, but to use most of what we have, it figures something like this

 

Rathbone - Schmidt

Hughes - Hamonic

Juolevi - Myers

 

Now, If I was to up grade, any of those players, it might look like this

 

Rathbone - Hamilton

Hughes - Larson/Savard

Juolevi - Myers 

 

Rathbone/Hamilton pairing would play at even strength with the Miller/Pettersson/Boeser line, and would be 2nd pairing PP

Hughes/Larson or Savard would play even strength with Horvat's line, and would also be 1st pairing PP

Juolevi/Myers would slide in and finish off the minutes, and play PK

 

To me, this takes alot of pressure off of Hughes at even strength and he might even be able to control his plus/minus with a 

stronger forward line, and a better defensive partner. The addition of a higher end defensive player who is a big body, will help alot.

 

With Hamilton coming over, or Schmidt playing along side Rathbone, and playing with Pettersson and Miller, the starting 5 gets a big

offensive lift. IMO, this becomes a ligit 1st pairing, and moves the entire unit into the upper echelons of the NHL.

 

IMO, the 3rd pairing becomes much steadier, with reduced minutes and assignments. Juolevi's defensive game, will help Myers, and

Myers size will help Juolevi. 

 

So, in the big picture of things, focusing on the defense this year allows for our 2021-1st (9th OA) to develop properly, and with any luck

could join the club in his D+1 year as an extra forward. IMO, this is the way to go.

 

Next year, we fill in the holes on forward if there is any. If Benning can't wait, then the only other position, I am interested  in filling this year

is the 3rd line center.

 

* PS.......Notice how I did not have to use any Draft picks! The starting 6 would cost around the 27 Million mark, which isn't too far off the 

league average.....top 3rd for sure, but manageable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[Patel Bure]

25 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Hi Everyone

 

I have just been reading Canuck proposals, here and on HF Boards.

 

There is alot of proposals that are adding to the forwards.

 

I just want to say, our focus, should be on rebuilding the defense

 

It is the single biggest problem we have.

 

As I said in an earlier post........I am inclined to have Hughes play on the second pairing

 

and if all goes as planned, having Rathbone and ??????, play 1st line

 

That is not to say that Hughes will not get big minutes, only that Rathbone will get more even strength minutes

 

There are plenty of ways to play this in terms of personnel, but to use most of what we have, it figures something like this

 

Rathbone - Schmidt

Hughes - Hamonic

Juolevi - Myers

 

Now, If I was to up grade, any of those players, it might look like this

 

Rathbone - Hamilton

Hughes - Larson/Savard

Juolevi - Myers 

 

Rathbone/Hamilton pairing would play at even strength with the Miller/Pettersson/Boeser line, and would be 2nd pairing PP

Hughes/Larson or Savard would play even strength with Horvat's line, and would also be 1st pairing PP

Juolevi/Myers would slide in and finish off the minutes, and play PK

 

To me, this takes alot of pressure off of Hughes at even strength and he might even be able to control his plus/minus with a 

stronger forward line, and a better defensive partner. The addition of a higher end defensive player who is a big body, will help alot.

 

With Hamilton coming over, or Schmidt playing along side Rathbone, and playing with Pettersson and Miller, the starting 5 gets a big

offensive lift. IMO, this becomes a ligit 1st pairing, and moves the entire unit into the upper echelons of the NHL.

 

IMO, the 3rd pairing becomes much steadier, with reduced minutes and assignments. Juolevi's defensive game, will help Myers, and

Myers size will help Juolevi. 

 

So, in the big picture of things, focusing on the defense this year allows for our 2021-1st (9th OA) to develop properly, and with any luck

could join the club in his D+1 year as an extra forward. IMO, this is the way to go.

 

Next year, we fill in the holes on forward if there is any. If Benning can't wait, then the only other position, I am interested  in filling this year

is the 3rd line center.

 

* PS.......Notice how I did not have to use any Draft picks! The starting 6 would cost around the 27 Million mark, which isn't too far off the 

league average.....top 3rd for sure, but manageable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is an excellent post and I agree with a lot of it.  Well done Janis.     

 

I also agree that rebuilding our defence should be our biggest priority but I'll take it one step further:   Finding a long term Alex Edler replacement (i.e. a top pairing all-situations d-man that can take on heavy match-ups) should be our biggest priority.  

 

Dougie Hamilton would be nice but I just can't see him coming here.  Would be happy to be proven wrong however.   

 

While Adam Larsson likely isn't the exact answer that we'd be looking for, he is someone that would qualify as being a top pairing 'all situations' guy (albeit, barely).  

 

If the Canucks and Schmidt have decided that they need to part ways, then Anaheim is a team that I'd seriously look at.  Hampus Lindholm to a sign and trade.  Lindholm would definitely fill that Alex Edler void.  

 

Prior to this news on Nate Schmidt, my personal defence plan would have been as follows:

 

2021-2022:

 

Hughes-Larsson

Rathbone-Schmidt (or Schmidt-Myers if Rathbone wasn't quite ready for this role)

Juolevi-Myers (or Rathbone-Bowey if the Canucks went with Schmidt-Myers above).

 

 

2022-2023:   Sign Hampus Lindholm

 

Lindholm-Schmidt

Hughes-Larsson

Juolevi/Rathnone-Myers (one of Juolevi or Rathbone gets moved for help in another position).   

 

That was my original 'plan' that I had in mind but this whole Schmidt thing really complicates things.   

 

I agree with your stance on Hughes, in that, he'd be best served on a 2nd pairing where he can work his magic in specific roles.  Similar to what Torey Krug was doing in Buffalo while guys like McAvoy and Carlo took on the tough defensive match-ups (if I understand correctly) and were the true top d-men on the team (similar to what a younger Edler was doing for us).  I think this is one reason why Benning has been inquiring about Oliver Ekman Larsson, but Larsson himself isn't that guy.   He's not the type of guy you want taking on tough match-ups.    

 

I still think Adam Larsson would be our best bet (although he's not the best option out there), and then, as you know, I'd try and see what offers one could get for a Miller-Schmidt package (like a Tkachuk-Andersson return, or a Laine-Peeke return).   Peeke and Andersson would give us another "defensive defenseman" option.....although I really don't like my Laine/Peeke idea.   Maybe even something with Sam Reinhart and Rasmus Ristolainen?   The Tkachuk-Andersson idea is my favourite.  

 

Having said all that, I might be inclined to do something like this:

 

Step 1:  Sign Adam Larsson

Step 2:  Schmidt and 9OA to Anaheim for Hampus Lindholm (signed and extended) + ??? (2nd?)

Step 3:   Re-sign Hamonic

 

Lindholm-Larsson

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Myers

 

Maybe that works?

 

 

[#Canucks]

You need 4 good defenseman, 1 great goalie & 6 good forwards. It doesn't matter to me what order they come in as long as it works!

[I.Am.Ironman]

Personally, I think Schmidt + 9OA should give us more than Lindholm at what is likely to be $6+ million. If it doesn't, then we should keep the 9th OA. We could also just try to sign Lindolm in free agency. Lindholm is barely a 30 pt defenceman, which is nothing to sneeze at obviously, but a top 10 pick is more valuable imo.

[Nucker 67]

Canucks have three Top 4 Dmen, and might lose one.

 

They do need D badly, especially if Juolevi doesn't really take a step this year.

 

Is Woo finally ready? 

 

 

[Alflives]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

Canucks have three Top 4 Dmen, and might lose one.

 

They do need D badly, especially if Juolevi doesn't really take a step this year.

 

Is Woo finally ready? 

 

 

Woo is still at least a year in the A away.  He’s really good, but he’s a physical D, and still maturing.  Hughes, Bone, and OJ will be our left side.  Myers and Hamonic will be two of the three on the right.  Love to get Seth Jones to play top pair minutes 

(5 on 5) with Hughes.  Schmidt + 9OA for Jones.  

[Dekey Pete]

Priority #1: Get QH a bonafide defense first defenseman to play with.  

[Canuck Surfer]

Just an opinion that Rathbone being parachuted to top pair is a bit itchy @janisahockeynut ...

 

Guys need to play their way up the line up.

 

I suspect he will make the team, this is a stretch without a year or two under his belt. 

[Dekey Pete]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Just an opinion that Rathbone being parachuted to top pair is a bit itchy @janisahockeynut ...

 

Guys need to play their way up the line up.

 

I suspect he will make the team, this is a stretch without a year or two under his belt. 

I agree.  Way too much pressure for a guy with 8 NHL games under his belt.  He'll likely end up having the same struggles QH had this past year

[EddieVedder]

44 minutes ago, Dekey Pete said:

I agree.  Way too much pressure for a guy with 8 NHL games under his belt.  He'll likely end up having the same struggles QH had this past year

Yup, too many people on this board live in a fantasy land. 

Rathbone is nowhere near ready for top 4 minutes.  If were are going into this year and intend to be competitive, Rathbone should be our 6th or 7th dman.  

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, Dekey Pete said:

Priority #1: Get QH a bonafide defense first defenseman to play with.  

At even strength last season the pairing of Hughes + Hamonic had a +/- of just -1. I think Hamonic is a bonafide defense first guy and that proves it.

 

Compare this to Hughes + Myers at ES (when paired together to create offense in a game when we are trailing) which was -14. Hamonic is a good partner for Hughes. No question.

 

Also I'd like to add that there is only so much a D partner can do. There will always be times where the opposing forwards push past Hughes and no matter who his partner is, they won't be able to stop that. He has to get better at defending 1-on-1. I cannot see him ever being a top pairing Dman, but he can be a legit 2nd pairing and PP offensive force.

 

That is why I think we should focus on signing Hamilton as our #1D, plus Hamonic, plus another tough defensive minded Dman like Oleksiak.

[Fanuck]

It's been said many times by knowledgeable hockey people  - you build championship caliber teams from goal,  then through defense and then at center.   If JB is satisfied that Demko is/will be an elite goalie he then has to decide if his next acquisition will be a defenceman or a natural center. 

 

There should be both (center and defenceman) available at 9oa so it'll be interesting what direction JB goes.

 

I've said it before and will again,  at our stage as a franchise the top level UFA market is a suckers game and we should stay weary this season.   Stay the course for now, build through the draft and play the young prospects,  play them a lot.

[GB5]

1 hour ago, Dekey Pete said:

Priority #1: Get QH a bonafide defense first defenseman to play with.  

Can we clone Willie Mitchell because he would be perfect for Hughes imo.

 

A stay at home defenseman who can make a good first pass would be the perfect partner. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

So rathbone is our #1 dman after 8 nhl games?

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Personally, I think Schmidt + 9OA should give us more than Lindholm at what is likely to be $6+ million. If it doesn't, then we should keep the 9th OA. We could also just try to sign Lindolm in free agency. Lindholm is barely a 30 pt defenceman, which is nothing to sneeze at obviously, but a top 10 pick is more valuable imo.

Two things to keep in mind about Lindholm.

 

1) He’s been on a terrible Anaheim Ducks team these past few years.

2) Lindholm isn’t a point producer.   He’s more like Edler in the sense that he can be used in all situations and is known more for the defensive side of things (along with taking on tougher match ups).   
3) Agreed that Schmidt + 9th is an overpayment.   I was thinking that we’d be able to get back a 2nd rounder and maybe a middle of the road prospect in return along with Lindholm.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

It's been said many times by knowledgeable hockey people  - you build championship caliber teams from goal,  then through defense and then at center.   If JB is satisfied that Demko is/will be an elite goalie he then has to decide if his next acquisition will be a defenceman or a natural center.

The Scotty Bowman model?

 

Yes a all star G

Has a defensive D & PMD.

Has a playmaking C & defensive stalwart at pivot.

Has a PF, usually at wing

Unrelenting Storm Troops

Edited July 13, 2021 by Canuck Surfer

[nuckin_futz]

4 hours ago, Dekey Pete said:

Priority #1: Get QH a bonafide defense first defenseman to play with.  

[Dekey Pete]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

too soon.  

[Chris12345]

I don't like the minutes Hughes logs and I don't like him on the pk.

 

I see a massive problem. 6 dman, 1 takes a penalty....down to 5 dman. That 5th dman realistically isn't great so Hughes's minutes sky rocket.

 

The d is not deep, it is not diversified, and no one has a bomb (maybe Rathbone), and no one is intimidating.

 

Massive overall is required and is a priority. Forwards can come later.