Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[shiznak]

4 hours ago, Viper007 said:

Nope I wouldn't.  I believe that Hughes will be a much better player than Chychrun.

 

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I know Hughes is a much better player than Chychrun.  Fortunately Benning knows this too.  

I think you guys are being a bit too partial here. 

 

If you had to choose between a defensemen who is slight less effective offensive, but has the complete package, signed at a reasonable price for 4 more years or a defensemen who can rack up 60 points, but is a bit of a mess in his own end, signed at 6M for 2-3 years. I think most GMs will take the former. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, shiznak said:

 

I think you guys are being a bit too partial here. 

 

If you had to choose between a defensemen who is slight less effective offensive, but has the complete package, signed at a reasonable price for 4 more years or a defensemen who can rack up 60 points, but is a bit of a mess in his own end, signed at 6M for 2-3 years. I think most GMs will take the former. 

 

 

[Viper007]

2 minutes ago, shiznak said:

 

I think you guys are being a bit too partial here. 

 

If you had to choose between a defensemen who is slight less effective offensive, but has the complete package, signed at a reasonable price for 4 more years or a defensemen who can rack up 60 points, but is a bit of a mess in his own end, signed at 6M for 2-3 years. I think most GMs will take the former. 

Not slight less effective offensively, QH is miles ahead offensively.  And Chychrun was up offensively because OEL had a down year.  QH will be closer to a PPG pace over his entire career.  Chychrun will not.  Nobody was complaining about QH during the playoffs regarding his defense.  Because of one abnormal season doesn't tell me that he's horrific defensively.  He will always be a high-risk reward defenseman. 

 

Also I'd take the entertainment value in watching QH play over Chychrun 100/100 times.  That's what this game is, isn't it?  Entertainment.

[shiznak]

24 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Not slight less effective offensively, QH is miles ahead offensively.  And Chychrun was up offensively because OEL had a down year.  QH will be closer to a PPG pace over his entire career.  Chychrun will not.  Nobody was complaining about QH during the playoffs regarding his defense.  Because of one abnormal season doesn't tell me that he's horrific defensively.  He will always be a high-risk reward defenseman. 

 

Also I'd take the entertainment value in watching QH play over Chychrun 100/100 times.  That's what this game is, isn't it?  Entertainment.

Is he really, though?

 

Chychrun had 18 goals for his team, only Kessel had more with 20.  14 of his 41 points came on the man-advantage. While 19 out of Quinn’s 41 points came on the PP.

 

I hate the argument of “what if so-so and so-so, switch teams?”, because I think it’s a moot point. The player creates offense by his own skillset not by others. But if Chychrun had played on last year’s Canucks’, I would wager he would have matched Hughes 53 points season. Arizona was ranked near the bottom of the league in goals for in 2020, while the Canucks was ranked in the top 10. This year, both teams were near identical in goals for, and both defensemen produced 41 points.

 

So, really how much better offensively is Quinn?

Edited July 1, 2021 by shiznak

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, shiznak said:

The player creates offense by his own skillset not by others.

So playing with Mario wouldn't turn a guy from a fringe NHL er to a  40 goal scorer named Warren Young

And playing with Greztky wouldn't turn Blair McDonald into a 46 goal scorer either?

[Gurn]

Would say if Chycrun was offered staight up for Quinn, I'd look hard at doing that deal.

[Viper007]

14 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Is he really, though?

 

Chychrun had 18 goals for his team, only Kessel had more with 20.  14 of his 41 points came on the man-advantage. While 19 out of Quinn’s 41 points came on the PP.

 

I hate the argument of “what if so-so and so-so, switch teams?”, because I think it’s a moot point. The player creates offense by his own skillset not by others. But if Chychrun had played on last year’s Canucks’, I would wager he would have matched Hughes 53 points season. Arizona was ranked near the bottom of the league in goals for in 2020, while the Canucks was ranked in the top 10. This year, both teams were near identical in goals for, and both defensemen produced 41 points.

 

So, really how much better offensively is Quinn?

He had a career year.  He had just a bit over 20 points the last 4 seasons.  Let's see him do it again this next season then we can revisit this take.  Did Arizona have the scheduling issues the Canucks had?  Did they have the injuries with COVID that the team had?  Did Arizona have their best player out?  If Chychrun was on the Canucks this past season, his points totals will be a lot worse.  

 

This season QH is considered to have an off season.  Chyrchrun had a career year.  Chychrun has been playing in the league for 5 years.  I think when QH is in his 5th year he will be more experienced and will play much better than this year.

[Gurn]

Quinn is only 2 yrs younger

Jakob is a career minus -32 in 290 games  4 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier gets double the pims

Quinn is                          -34 in 129 games

 

Quinn will probably not get goals like Jakob, but he will get more points.

 

What type of ice time does Jakob get, lots of pk or pp?

 

As I said above, if offered a one for one, you have to really think about it.

[Viper007]

4 minutes ago, gurn said:

Quinn is only 2 yrs younger

Jakob is a career minus -32 in 290 games  4 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier gets double the pims

Quinn is                          -34 in 129 games

 

Quinn will probably not get goals like Jakob, but he will get more points.

 

What type of ice time does Jakob get, lots of pk or pp?

 

As I said above, if offered a one for one, you have to really think about it.

Personally I don't need to think about it, Arizona would need to offer more.

[combover]

20 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

 

I am not sure if he is just sarcastic and playing everybody or if serious. I mean you @combover

All of the above.

We’re stuffed until the cap mismanagement gets corrected.

and that’ll cost us again.

then a aged overpaid over rated vet with a big name will catch jim and we’ll be screwed again by bad contracts meanwhile valuable players that we have will sit and wonder like everyone wtf he’s doing.

toffoli tanev are proof. Got lost chasing his tail on a 8 million dollar mistake. Best news last summer was he’d already screwed the cap so much he couldn’t hurt the team with more stupidity. 
 

Jb aggressive = stupidity/ mistakes. 
 

Jb wiesbro . dumb and dumber

dont make me post the picture of him. Lol
 

 

 

[EddieVedder]

19 hours ago, shiznak said:

 

I think you guys are being a bit too partial here. 

 

If you had to choose between a defensemen who is slight less effective offensive, but has the complete package, signed at a reasonable price for 4 more years or a defensemen who can rack up 60 points, but is a bit of a mess in his own end, signed at 6M for 2-3 years. I think most GMs will take the former. 

Ill take Chychrun over QH anyday.

Chychrun is going to be a legit 1d soon if he isnt already.  

 

[EddieVedder]

19 hours ago, Viper007 said:

Not slight less effective offensively, QH is miles ahead offensively.  And Chychrun was up offensively because OEL had a down year.  QH will be closer to a PPG pace over his entire career.  Chychrun will not.  Nobody was complaining about QH during the playoffs regarding his defense.  Because of one abnormal season doesn't tell me that he's horrific defensively.  He will always be a high-risk reward defenseman. 

 

Also I'd take the entertainment value in watching QH play over Chychrun 100/100 times.  That's what this game is, isn't it?  Entertainment.

It was entertaining watching QH get wrecked every game?   

Fans want to see their team win.  Fans want to see a contender be built.  Chychrun is a talented dman that plays hard in his own end and frankly does everything really well.. he is the type of dman gms covet.  

[Viper007]

49 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

It was entertaining watching QH get wrecked every game?   

Fans want to see their team win.  Fans want to see a contender be built.  Chychrun is a talented dman that plays hard in his own end and frankly does everything really well.. he is the type of dman gms covet.  

Are you really a Canucks fan?  Watching his edgework on the blueline, getting away from the forwards walking the line and making passes.  Or dekeing out a defender with a fake pass and then shooting and scoring bar and in?  Wow, How quickly we forget his rookie year.  Didn't hear you complaining about him then.  Just because of an anomaly season you're gonna jump all over him?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Viper007

[Bertuzzipunch]

7 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Are you really a Canucks fan?  Watching his edgework on the blueline, getting away from the forwards walking the line and making passes.  Or dekeing out a defender with a fake pass and then shooting and scoring bar and in?  Wow, How quickly we forget his rookie year.  Didn't hear you complaining about him then.  Just because of an anomaly season you're gonna jump all over him?

Yeah best to ignore that dumbass

[The Lock]

22 hours ago, shiznak said:

 

I think you guys are being a bit too partial here. 

 

If you had to choose between a defensemen who is slight less effective offensive, but has the complete package, signed at a reasonable price for 4 more years or a defensemen who can rack up 60 points, but is a bit of a mess in his own end, signed at 6M for 2-3 years. I think most GMs will take the former. 

But none of what you are saying specifically proves that Chychrun is a better player than Hughes. If anything, you're saying Hughes is still the better player indirectly as you believe Hughes will be paid more.

 

I am of the mindset of you choose the best player. If you just pick players that are not you will never have an optimal team. You might have a good team, but never have that player that can get you over that hump later on. I just don't think your mentality here would win us a cup if I'm being honest. How can you expect to improve the team to the point of being a cup contender if you don't pick the best player?

 

And don't get me wrong. I get the passion that people have in wanting shiny new things. I just think that if Chychrun's the "answer", we have a problem on our hands with this rebuild.

Edited July 2, 2021 by The Lock

[shiznak]

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

But none of what you are saying specifically proves that Chychrun is a better player than Hughes. If anything, you're saying Hughes is still the better player indirectly as you believe Hughes will be paid more.

 

I am of the mindset of you choose the best player. If you just pick players that are not you will never have an optimal team. You might have a good team, but never have that player that can get you over that hump later on. I just don't think your mentality here would win us a cup if I'm being honest. How can you expect to improve the team to the point of being a cup contender if you don't pick the best player?

 

And don't get me wrong. I get the passion that people have in wanting shiny new things. I just think that if Chychrun's the "answer", we have a problem on our hands with this rebuild.

Hughes:

Spoiler

Chychrun:

Spoiler

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by shiznak

[Alflives]

On 7/1/2021 at 2:49 PM, shiznak said:

Is he really, though?

 

Chychrun had 18 goals for his team, only Kessel had more with 20.  14 of his 41 points came on the man-advantage. While 19 out of Quinn’s 41 points came on the PP.

 

I hate the argument of “what if so-so and so-so, switch teams?”, because I think it’s a moot point. The player creates offense by his own skillset not by others. But if Chychrun had played on last year’s Canucks’, I would wager he would have matched Hughes 53 points season. Arizona was ranked near the bottom of the league in goals for in 2020, while the Canucks was ranked in the top 10. This year, both teams were near identical in goals for, and both defensemen produced 41 points.

 

So, really how much better offensively is Quinn?

Chychrun is like Bowmeister.  That’s a nice player, but nothing special.  Hughes is a phenom.  That’s special.  

Hopefully we lock up Hughes with an 8 year contract.  

[EddieVedder]

7 hours ago, Viper007 said:

Are you really a Canucks fan?  Watching his edgework on the blueline, getting away from the forwards walking the line and making passes.  Or dekeing out a defender with a fake pass and then shooting and scoring bar and in?  Wow, How quickly we forget his rookie year.  Didn't hear you complaining about him then.  Just because of an anomaly season you're gonna jump all over him?

Why are we pretending that QH is the only dman that can skate?  He isnt.  Most players in this league can skate well.  Yes, he has good edgework, but Until QH can be a two way player and defend,  hes going to be a specialist type dman who is easy to knock off the puck.   

[EddieVedder]

7 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Yeah best to ignore that dumbass

Keep drinking the koolaid little guy.

[khay]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Chychrun is like Bowmeister.  That’s a nice player, but nothing special.  Hughes is a phenom.  That’s special.  

Hopefully we lock up Hughes with an 8 year contract.  

This is a pretty good comparison IMO.

 

I would love to have a Bouwmeester on my team, but not at the expense of Hughes.

 

Hughes is not just a guy that can skate or with good edge work. He's got the offensive creativity and knows what to do with the puck.

 

I'd bet on him rather than giving up on him way too early. I am optimistic that  1) Hughes will correct his defensive weaknesses to a certain level, 2) the team will find the right partner for him, and 3) the coaches will find optimal deployment for Hughes/exploiting the right matchups for Hughes.