Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Nurnge]

Nothing against Chychrun would love to have him on the Canucks but I have waited 50 years to see a real get outta yer seat very time he touches the puck defenseman on this team . I want MORE Hughes's on this team not less !  

 is it driving anyone else crazy that Petey and Quinn's contracts are taking so long to get done ?

Edited July 3, 2021 by Nurnge

[Bertuzzipunch]

13 minutes ago, Nurnge said:

Nothing against Chychrun would love to have him on the Canucks but I have waited 50 years to see a real get outta yer seat very time he touches the puck defenseman on this team . I want MORE Hughes's on this team not less !  

 is it driving anyone else crazy that Petey and Quinn's contracts are taking so long to get done ?

Im dying. I want it done right now.

[zimmy]

31 minutes ago, Nurnge said:

Nothing against Chychrun would love to have him on the Canucks but I have waited 50 years to see a real get outta yer seat very time he touches the puck defenseman on this team . I want MORE Hughes's on this team not less !  

 is it driving anyone else crazy that Petey and Quinn's contracts are taking so long to get done ?

If one is not concerned that the two will eventually be signed then it matters little when it happens. As thick as GMJB can be at times (in his lovable hick way!) I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that even he would have know that any failure to secure contracts for these franchise players would end in his dismissal. So, relax man.

[sarjakd]

1 hour ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Im dying. I want it done right now.

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, shiznak said:

Hughes:

  Hide contents

Chychrun:

  Hide contents

 

And?

 

Explain your stats and your position otherwise you've proven nothing. There's literally percentages in favour of both but no words from you means nothing to me. And don't just say 1 or 2 percentages are better than the other. Please explain why those percentages are most important compared with other stuff, including the eye ball test.

 

Also keep in mind that I don't believe in a lot of the advanced stats out there so you're going to have to convince me that it's a legit reason to think that Chychrun's actually better. Also, if you don't want to that's fine, but if will not have convinced me.

 

Sorry, but I hate it when people just post up picture thinking they've "proven something" when in actual fact they've proven nothing since they have like... not even said a word. It clearly defines the people who actually know how to debate from the people who don't.

Edited July 3, 2021 by The Lock

[Devron]

10 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Yeah best to ignore that dumbass

He’s also anti Boeser which blows my mind. Some fans don’t deserve the good stuff. Not worried about Hughes at all. I’d lock him up as long a possible before he’s worth more 

[Nurnge]

1 hour ago, zimmy said:

If one is not concerned that the two will eventually be signed then it matters little when it happens. As thick as GMJB can be at times (in his lovable hick way!) I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that even he would have know that any failure to secure contracts for these franchise players would end in his dismissal. So, relax man.

Not concerned that it won't get done just more about how much [ with all the speculation on trades or who and who they could realistically go after with their cap space ] and how long till I have to go though this again . 

[shiznak]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

And?

 

Explain your stats and your position otherwise you've proven nothing. There's literally percentages in favour of both but no words from you means nothing to me. And don't just say 1 or 2 percentages are better than the other. Please explain why those percentages are most important compared with other stuff, including the eye ball test.

 

Also keep in mind that I don't believe in a lot of the advanced stats out there so you're going to have to convince me that it's a legit reason to think that Chychrun's actually better. Also, if you don't want to that's fine, but if will not have convinced me.

 

Sorry, but I hate it when people just post up picture thinking they've "proven something" when in actual fact they've proven nothing since they have like... not even said a word. It clearly defines the people who actually know how to debate from the people who don't.

WAR = Wins above replacement. Players value in wins, whether it be for his offense or defense.

EV Off. = Even strength offense. Calculate the impact of the player at even strength scoring chances generated. 
EV Def. =  Even strength defense. Calculate the impact of the player’s goal against prevention rate.

PP = Impact of the player’s  affect on the PP.

PK = Impact of the player’s affect on the PK.

Finishing = Estimate on how a player contributes to his team through his ability to score on the shots he takes.

QoC = Quality of competition against opposing team.

 

That’s just the gist of it…….but if you want to go a bit more into detail of the stats. Here’s a link that explains more throughly:

 

https://jfresh.substack.com/p/player-card-20-explainer

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by shiznak

[UKNuck96]

12 hours ago, The Lock said:

But none of what you are saying specifically proves that Chychrun is a better player than Hughes. If anything, you're saying Hughes is still the better player indirectly as you believe Hughes will be paid more.

 

I am of the mindset of you choose the best player. If you just pick players that are not you will never have an optimal team. You might have a good team, but never have that player that can get you over that hump later on. I just don't think your mentality here would win us a cup if I'm being honest. How can you expect to improve the team to the point of being a cup contender if you don't pick the best player?

 

And don't get me wrong. I get the passion that people have in wanting shiny new things. I just think that if Chychrun's the "answer", we have a problem on our hands with this rebuild.

The way to operate in a hard cap isn’t to get the best players and then plug in around them (aka Toronto) you need to have players who play above their cap. In a cap era a more complete team which is solid all around should out perform a team with just top end talent on one or two lines.

 

it’s about team building and making the the whole greater then the sum of its parts. That’s why players like Motte, whitecloud, verhague are valuable to teams. Not the big point getters, not the best players but the supporting cast you need to win. 

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Nurnge said:

Nothing against Chychrun would love to have him on the Canucks but I have waited 50 years to see a real get outta yer seat very time he touches the puck defenseman on this team . I want MORE Hughes's on this team not less !  

 is it driving anyone else crazy that Petey and Quinn's contracts are taking so long to get done ?

We might have to wait all the way until the season starts almost like BB.   I'm pretty worried both will be overpaid, we don't have a lot of cap space and none to waste.   Noticed a lot of folks have seen reason now and see numbers 5-6.5 being thrown around ... but EP is offer sheetedable and we have to keep space just in case.   Won't see either sign before the ED or the draft.    Doesn't make sense for JB to do that ... if it happens that's great but expect this to go on possibly right to September.    JP Barry has so much pull.    Seems like EPs won't be tough to do, but QHs is.   And it really is.    THN has 7-8 for both of them (ouch!!!)....we'd have to clear cap for that to happen.   Dip into the LE reserve fund.    So many variables that we are probably best off just accepting this could take all summer to happen.   Beagle LTIR?  Yes or no.  Ferland?  Yes or no.   We simply have maybe 25% of the data.   Heiskanen and Makars deals will affect things too.   

 

Personally i'm going to stick with my guns - 6-6.5 x 6 for both of them.  That's what they are worth for 4-5 years of flat cap.   But would really like to see EP signed for 8 years and QHs for 3.    7.5x8 and 5.25 x 3. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by IBatch

[D.B Cooper]

12 hours ago, Nurnge said:

Nothing against Chychrun would love to have him on the Canucks but I have waited 50 years to see a real get outta yer seat very time he touches the puck defenseman on this team . I want MORE Hughes's on this team not less !  
 

 

 

12 hours ago, Nurnge said:

 is it driving anyone else crazy that Petey and Quinn's contracts are taking so long to get done ?

Not at all.  These are the two best players we have possible ever had.  
The playoffs aren’t even done yet. (Well, Montreal has been done since game one)

 

There are a lot of ways to go about these contracts and I hope they take all the time needed to make the right choices. 

[EddieVedder]

14 hours ago, drummerboy said:

 

 

Not at all.  These are the two best players we have possible ever had.  
The playoffs aren’t even done yet. (Well, Montreal has been done since game one)

 

There are a lot of ways to go about these contracts and I hope they take all the time needed to make the right choices. 

Best players we have ever had?  Getting too far ahead of yourself.

There is so much more to being a player than putting up points.

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

18 hours ago, IBatch said:

We might have to wait all the way until the season starts almost like BB.   I'm pretty worried both will be overpaid, we don't have a lot of cap space and none to waste.   Noticed a lot of folks have seen reason now and see numbers 5-6.5 being thrown around ... but EP is offer sheetedable and we have to keep space just in case.   Won't see either sign before the ED or the draft.    Doesn't make sense for JB to do that ... if it happens that's great but expect this to go on possibly right to September.    JP Barry has so much pull.    Seems like EPs won't be tough to do, but QHs is.   And it really is.    THN has 7-8 for both of them (ouch!!!)....we'd have to clear cap for that to happen.   Dip into the LE reserve fund.    So many variables that we are probably best off just accepting this could take all summer to happen.   Beagle LTIR?  Yes or no.  Ferland?  Yes or no.   We simply have maybe 25% of the data.   Heiskanen and Makars deals will affect things too.   

 

Personally i'm going to stick with my guns - 6-6.5 x 6 for both of them.  That's what they are worth for 4-5 years of flat cap.   But would really like to see EP signed for 8 years and QHs for 3.    7.5x8 and 5.25 x 3. 

From what I understand Seattle could offersheet Petey during their exclusive window and if they come to a agreement vancouver has no rights to match. So yeah the deadline is getting close.

[Salacious Crumb]

26 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

From what I understand Seattle could offersheet Petey during their exclusive window and if they come to a agreement vancouver has no rights to match. So yeah the deadline is getting close.

Any source? No rights to match? 

[Canuck Surfer]

25 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

From what I understand Seattle could offersheet Petey during their exclusive window and if they come to a agreement vancouver has no rights to match. So yeah the deadline is getting close.

Teams can opt to include RFA's on their protected list. As long as they are qualified.

 

I am pretty sure we will protect Elias Pettersson...

[appleboy]

33 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

From what I understand Seattle could offersheet Petey during their exclusive window and if they come to a agreement vancouver has no rights to match. So yeah the deadline is getting close.

Seattle has the right to select any unprotected ufa. Why would the Canucks leave him unprotected?

[Canuck Surfer]

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Seattle has the right to select any unprotected ufa. Why would the Canucks leave him unprotected?

Seattle has an exclusive window when they can negotiate with any any unprotected UFA.  However;

 

> Teams wont protect a UFA (generally) , why would they? They are going to lose them anyway, why waste a spot...

>> If they have a handshake agreement to re-sign? They can gain a protection slot by signing after ED & not protecting!

>> If Seattle signs a UFA in that period. It qualifies as a selected player.  And they also waste a selection spot. Available 2 weeks later regardless...

 

[mll]

54 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Seattle has an exclusive window when they can negotiate with any any unprotected UFA.  However;

 

> Teams wont protect a UFA (generally) , why would they? They are going to lose them anyway, why waste a spot...

>> If they have a handshake agreement to re-sign? They can gain a protection slot by signing after ED & not protecting!

>> If Seattle signs a UFA in that period. It qualifies as a selected player.  And they also waste a selection spot. Available 2 weeks later regardless...

 

and unprotected RFAs.  That's why it's not considered an offer sheet and there is no matching possible.

 

Pettersson will be protected though and Seattle won't have the right to speak to him.  

 

Seattle and any other team can sign him to an offer sheet after the expansion draft but the Canucks will be able to match.

 

Not sure about those handshake agreements though.  During the Vegas expansion there was mention that they would be penalised as trying to circumvent expansion rules. If the contract details have all been finalised and they are waiting to file after expansion vs negotiations being ongoing.  

 

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Seattle has an exclusive window when they can negotiate with any any unprotected UFA.  However;

 

> Teams wont protect a UFA (generally) , why would they? They are going to lose them anyway, why waste a spot...

>> If they have a handshake agreement to re-sign? They can gain a protection slot by signing after ED & not protecting!

>> If Seattle signs a UFA in that period. It qualifies as a selected player.  And they also waste a selection spot. Available 2 weeks later regardless...

 

I was only talking about Petey as some seemed to think he would be open for an offer sheet if not signed . Petey will be signed or qualified. 

Then he will be put on protected list.

[D.B Cooper]

8 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Best players we have ever had?  Getting too far ahead of yourself.

There is so much more to being a player than putting up points.

 

Possibly, smart guy

Edited July 4, 2021 by drummerboy