How Green's coaching and Benning's trades degraded this team

[Elias Pettersson]

35 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I don’t buy this argument.

Benning has spent up all cap before so if he saved a few mills in cap he could’ve hired an expensive coach if so. 
So money isn’t the problem as an charismatic coach also bring in fans. 

Benning doesn't have the authority to hire a high end coach and pay them $5 million+.  That's on ownership.  He is allowed to spend to the cap because ownership has given him the green light to do that.  However, paying players $5 million+ with the ability to move them around at any time is quite different than locking up a coach to a 4-5 year deal and the only way you can get rid of him is to fire him, whereby the contract is fully guaranteed and you would need to pay a coach to not be working.  You don't have that problem with players.

 

Aquilini has already paid coaches and GM's not to work after they were fired.  Many times.  So he knows the drill here.

[grandmaster]

JB did an outstanding job in this off season.

 

Green has to go. Last night was an indication of how much he has lost the room. 
 

Let us bring in Babcock. He might have been a bit of an a hole to some players but I’m sure he has refined himself now and regardless, some of these players need a bit of an a hole coach. There is no excuse to not give in your full effort while making millions of dollars. They were running at about a quarter effort last night. UNACCEPTABLE.

 

Babcock needs to also bring in a new team of assistants. The team not only needs motivation but also new strategies. 

[Patel Bure]

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Funny thing Travis Green.  There was a ton of interest if he didn't get signed out East.   But yet here we are, four games in, 3 games we could have easily won in regulation, and one terrible game - which he followed up with consequences today.   I think we need to give him a chance.   First roster he's had that isn't awful really, or below average.   It's average actually.    Until our core proves itself at least.   

I would normally agree with you but that performance against Buffalo last night was completely and utterly unacceptable.  

 

I also don't understand why Green didn't play Podkolzin more.   I was quite perplexed watching the game last night.  Losing back to back to Detroit and Buffalo is unacceptable, and I don't care if we dominated Detroit.  The game against Buffalo last night should have been a statement game.  

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

JB did an outstanding job in this off season.

 

Green has to go. Last night was an indication of how much he has lost the room. 
 

Let us bring in Babcock. He might have been a bit of an a hole to some players but I’m sure he has refined himself now and regardless, some of these players need a bit of an a hole coach. There is no excuse to not give in your full effort while making millions of dollars. They were running at about a quarter effort last night. UNACCEPTABLE.

 

Babcock needs to also bring in a new team of assistants. The team not only needs motivation but also new strategies. 

Why go after Babcock when you have a solid choice in Brad Shaw already in the fold? Shaw developed Pietrangelo, Parakyo and others in St. Louis and then helped to develop the d-core in Columbus when he got there. Babcock has certainly proven himself in the NHL and world stages, mind you, but I think Shaw makes more sense.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I would normally agree with you but that performance against Buffalo last night was completely and utterly unacceptable.  

 

I also don't understand why Green didn't play Podkolzin more.   I was quite perplexed watching the game last night.  Losing back to back to Detroit and Buffalo is unacceptable, and I don't care if we dominated Detroit.  The game against Buffalo last night should have been a statement game.  

Last night was bad.   Travis is making them pay for it lol.    Unless he puts his skates on and plays the game then he's only going to do so much to motivate the troops.   Maybe that's the Detroit game backfiring - as in pushing them too hard to win ... I don't know, you don't know and unless a CDCer is part of the dressing room, they don't know either. 

[DSVII]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why go after Babcock when you have a solid choice in Brad Shaw already in the fold? Shaw developed Pietrangelo, Parakyo and others in St. Louis and then helped to develop the d-core in Columbus when he got there. Babcock has certainly proven himself in the NHL and world stages, mind you, but I think Shaw makes more sense.

I'd go after Bruce Boudreau before Babcock, I personally think Babs is overrated. Boudreau's done well bringing teams to the playoffs consistently and doesn't have Babs' baggage.

 

I'm for Shaw as well, just worried that he's essentially another rookie Head Coach. We haven't had an experienced NHL level head coach since AV in 2014...I don't mind Brad, I just want to see someone with actual NHL head coaching experience for once. 

[mll]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You are referring to when he initially got hired.  I believe people are talking about why he was re-signed last May.  Cost did play a factor in that I believe.

Benning has always said that he wanted to bring Green back.  There was a bit of a delay to sign him because ownership had to sign off (he was getting a raise) but it wasn't Benning looking to replace him.

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why go after Babcock when you have a solid choice in Brad Shaw already in the fold? Shaw developed Pietrangelo, Parakyo and others in St. Louis and then helped to develop the d-core in Columbus when he got there. Babcock has certainly proven himself in the NHL and world stages, mind you, but I think Shaw makes more sense.

Yet other teams look at Green and say - he developed Brock Boeser, Quin Hughes, Demko, Elias Pettersson, revived Pearson's career,  Miller is now a premier player, put a bow on Horvat, Hoglander etc etc .., maybe we are overly critical of what is actually going on with us.   Shaw - well nice to add him, but as a "back up plan" ..?  I've seen better.   Larry Robinson comes to mind off the top of my head.

Edited October 20, 2021 by IBatch

[JeremyCuddles]

11 hours ago, Trebreh said:

Green decides who gets sent down doesnt he? 

 

If Podz didn't score in the Philly game, he's probably healthy scratched by now. even in that game he still got benched lol. 

 

I don't know why Lockwood and Gadjovich didn't make this team out of camp. They did everything possible with the limited ice time and chance they could get. Big Mac even though disappointed in camp, showed enough tangibles to stay with the team (crashes the net, hits, fights, lives rent free in Nurses head). Lockwood looked impressive in every game he played. 

 

We should've waived all the depth guys and gave the home grown prospects a chance. Let's face it, nobody is claiming Petan, Dowling, Di Giseppe off waivers.

 

Greens head scratching decisions is costing us depth. I heard from the post game that Green was criticizing the team for not hitting enough.. GEE I WONDER WHY. 

 

We lost two of three physical prospects that we have because of Green's obsession with fringe nhlers. His excuse is because he wants pkers on the 4th line. Lockwood has all the tools to play on the PK. Gadjo and MacEwen are big bodies with reach that could be useful in PK, why not team them how to pk instead of demoting them for NHL journeymen. 

 

and it's not like we have an elite PK anyways, I'm preety sure Lockwood, Gadjo and Bigmac can stand stationary in the PK like the rest of the guys anyways. 

 

 

Pretty sure management can step in and say "yeah we're not waiving good young players for 30 year olds with fewer than 100 games under their belt."

[kloubek]

55 minutes ago, rychicken said:

now we just need to get him a high-talent team and we can find out

I would argue that our forward lines are currently as deep as they've ever been.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Benning has always said that he wanted to bring Green back.  There was a bit of a delay to sign him because ownership had to sign off (he was getting a raise) but it wasn't Benning looking to replace him.

Man.   This is going to be a very long season, if we have a bad game and the CDC reacts like a petulant child every time.    I have a pitchfork too and is sharp.   But why don't we wait and see? It's only one bad game.   Last year our first 16 were ok - terrible.  

[Patel Bure]

I think what has been most concerning is our inability to create offense.  I thought offense was supposed to be our strong suit this year?  

 

Our Power Play, along with the way we set up our offense in general, just looks extremely predictable.  Green has to be held responsible for that to a large extent. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

I'd go after Bruce Boudreau before Babcock, I personally think Babs is overrated. Boudreau's done well bringing teams to the playoffs consistently and doesn't have Babs' baggage.

 

I'm for Shaw as well, just worried that he's essentially another rookie Head Coach. We haven't had an experienced NHL level head coach since AV in 2014...I don't mind Brad, I just want to see someone with actual NHL head coaching experience for once. 

Babcock has serious baggage for sure that is probably part of the reason he isn't coaching in the NHL anymore. Boudreau is solid.

 

Shaw actually was the head coach of the Islanders for half a season in 2006. Since then, he's been an assistant for both St. Louis and Columbus, recognized for developing their defense corps. He has a decade and a half of NHL experience in coaching. At the time AV was hired by Vancouver, he had only been a head coach in the NHL for 3 years with Montreal. 

 

I think Shaw represents the best of both worlds. A coach recognized for his work as an assistant, with experience in NHL on the ice and behind the bench. I would love to see Boudreau lose his (expletive deleted) though. 

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yet other teams look at Green and say - he developed Brock Boeser, Quin Hughes, Demko, Elias Pettersson, revived Pearson's career,  Miller is now a premier player, put a bow on Horvat, Hoglander etc etc .., maybe we are overly critical of what is actually going on with us.   Shaw - well nice to add him, but as a "back up plan" ..?  I've seen better.   Larry Robinson comes to mind off the top of my head.

Not overly critical at all. Just looking at the team objectively. I think being overly critical would be to call Green an abject failure of a coach at the NHL level. That's just not true and such hyperbole hasn't been spun by me. 

 

Green has developed those aforementioned young players well, yet the team still flounders despite said development. Was Pearson's career in the dumps, or was it merely because LA hit their peak? Is Miller a premier player in the league? Would he automatically be placed on any other teams top line if traded? I think Wilfred had as much of an impact on Horvat as Travis. 

 

Shaw's reputation around the league is pretty solid. He's recognized as a developer of defensemen, and his work in St. Louis and Columbus speaks to that. We'll see how things play out though.

[IBatch]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Not overly critical at all. Just looking at the team objectively. I think being overly critical would be to call Green an abject failure of a coach at the NHL level. That's just not true and such hyperbole hasn't been spun by me. 

 

Green has developed those aforementioned young players well, yet the team still flounders despite said development. Was Pearson's career in the dumps, or was it merely because LA hit their peak? Is Miller a premier player in the league? Would he automatically be placed on any other teams top line if traded? I think Wilfred had as much of an impact on Horvat as Travis. 

 

Shaw's reputation around the league is pretty solid. He's recognized as a developer of defensemen, and his work in St. Louis and Columbus speaks to that. We'll see how things play out though.

For sure i know that wasn't singling you out one bit have recognized a level head or two on here and for sure your one of them ... Shaws a good add for sure.   Haven't lost faith in the process yet - but understand why others have, we've had a bumpy ride.   And for sure i don't think either JB or TG can afford a long crappy losing streak either.   And at this point, they probably shouldn't.  Until then i don't mind keeping up the faith. 

[grandmaster]

45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yet other teams look at Green and say - he developed Brock Boeser, Quin Hughes, Demko, Elias Pettersson, revived Pearson's career,  Miller is now a premier player, put a bow on Horvat, Hoglander etc etc .., maybe we are overly critical of what is actually going on with us.   Shaw - well nice to add him, but as a "back up plan" ..?  I've seen better.   Larry Robinson comes to mind off the top of my head.

Green is the type that coaches well during a rebuild but not when it comes to contending. That’s a different level of coaching. Boudreau and Babcock are those types.

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Green is the type that coaches well during a rebuild but not when it comes to contending. That’s a different level of coaching. Boudreau and Babcock are those types.

Well unless Green had a chance to have one of those teams that's impossible to know.   Babcock couldn't handle a rebuild ..... 

[Baggins]

We're 4 games in with 13 new players on the active roster. Plus Petey hadn't played in 7 months and we're starting with two key penalty killers out and an expected top four d-man a no show. At least give them 15 to 20 games before brining out the torches and pitchforks.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I’m probably going to give this group at least 20 games before I start drawing conclusions about either the roster or the coaching staff.

 

This team could look completely different ten games from now, and without any personnel changes.

 

We’ve had a shuffle and additions in the coaching, major changes/turnover on both the defence and forwards, Petey and Hughes extensions running late and with no training camp, Boeser out, plus the whole Hamonic thing.

 

Just to name a few. I’m sure there’s more.

 

Last game was played without what would ostensibly be our first pairing (Hughes-Hamonic), if the roster was actually the way it had been designed.

 

And a start on the road mean very little practice time, or even the opportunity to do serious video work, to address the current issues.

 

They deserve more time.

[Maddogy]

6 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’m probably going to give this group at least 20 games before I start drawing conclusions about either the roster or the coaching staff.

 

This team could look completely different ten games from now, and without any personnel changes.

 

We’ve had a shuffle and additions in the coaching, major changes/turnover on both the defence and forwards, Petey and Hughes extensions running late and with no training camp, Boeser out, plus the whole Hamonic thing.

 

Just to name a few. I’m sure there’s more.

 

Last game was played without what would ostensibly be our first pairing (Hughes-Hamonic), if the roster was actually the way it had been designed.

 

And a start on the road mean very little practice time, or even the opportunity to do serious video work, to address the current issues.

 

They deserve more time.

Yes. I am open to firing Green down the road. However, people need to recall that prior to the bubble play in games, the coaching staff had a short training camp to prepare the squad for the playoffs. They overachieved in the playoffs with surprisingly competent defence. We need to wait and see after a home stretch with practices to see whether this coaching staff can improve the defence and PP. 

 

Nonetheless, Jason King should be fired immediately for doing nothing different for the PP.