[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, Provost said:

You stated that players are producing more in their mid 30’s than ever and posted a screen shot of the production of a bunch of 30 and 31 year olds.

 

It is evidence of something, but absolutely not evidence related to anything you are actually saying it is evidence of.

 

If I say it is raining outside, does attaching a screenshot of my fridge count as evidence that it is raining outside?  I guess in your world apparently it does…

 

You said “many” players in their mid 30’s had career years.  The actual truth was two players in their mid 30’s did.  It is a genuinely idiotic argument to now say “many is subjective so it can really mean two”

 

“Many” is not subjective to represent whatever you feel like, words have meanings.  Believe it or not, there are actually books out there that can even tell you the definitions of words.  “Many” by definition means a large, but indeterminate number… or more simply.

 

man·y

/ˈmenē/

 

determiner · adjective

1. a large number of.

   "many people agreed with her"

    

    

   Two is not a large number by any definition.  That isn’t my personal criteria… that is how definitions work.

    

    

Having things your way,.  Be like :

 

 

 

 

[SilentSam]

Just my two bits,.   And a bit of a D-rail,

But I think signing Bruce is the only way this team stays together for the next season, and probably the one after.

 

The players here finally have a Coach they have bonded with and are happy to play for ,.

Looking back, the years of WD , and Green have not created the same room Boudreau has since he walked in.

He seems to have that “Uncle” attitude that every one love playing for .

If he is not behind the bench next season that might mean a lot to quite a few players who want to continue with the same work ethic, opportunity, and fun Bruce helped create.

 

I know who is available to replace Bruce..  but I don’t care.

Signing Boudreau  is a huge piece of the puzzle to players signing here , in the now, and the future. 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Just my two bits,.   And a bit of a D-rail,

But I think signing Bruce is the only way this team stays together for the next season, and probably the one after.

 

The players here finally have a Coach they have bonded with and are happy to play for ,.

Looking back, the years of WD , and Green have not created the same room Boudreau has since he walked in.

He seems to have that “Uncle” attitude that every one love playing for .

If he is not behind the bench next season that might mean a lot to quite a few players who want to continue with the same work ethic, opportunity, and fun Bruce helped create.

 

I know who is available to replace Bruce..  but I don’t care.

Signing Boudreau  is a huge piece of the puzzle to players signing here , in the now, and the future. 

this ^ makes me think part of the reason mgmt isn't willing to extend Bruce long term right now is maybe they want to see how repeatable the back 1/2 of last season was before making any big commitments. If we come back with the same core, and stink out of the gate, its easier to blow up if there aren't any big commitments. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by JM_

[Nucker 67]

11 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Just my two bits,.   And a bit of a D-rail,

But I think signing Bruce is the only way this team stays together for the next season, and probably the one after.

 

The players here finally have a Coach they have bonded with and are happy to play for ,.

Looking back, the years of WD , and Green have not created the same room Boudreau has since he walked in.

He seems to have that “Uncle” attitude that every one love playing for .

If he is not behind the bench next season that might mean a lot to quite a few players who want to continue with the same work ethic, opportunity, and fun Bruce helped create.

 

I know who is available to replace Bruce..  but I don’t care.

Signing Boudreau  is a huge piece of the puzzle to players signing here , in the now, and the future. 

I agree, but maybe he is a part of the team moving forward? They did include him in the Kuzmenko interview, and that might seal the deal on him coming to VAN, if Bruce is the coach.

 

Benning would've bent over backwards (and forwards) for a coach like Boudreau.  Given him whatever he wanted, but JR/PA seem to be playing some real hard ball. I imagine they're not easy to negotiate with and have a "my way or the highway" attitude. Hopefully Boudreau stays on, and they re-sign him after a successful 2022/23 season. 

 

If they're unreasonable and Bruce leaves, this fan base and the players will not be happy, and it could be another rough ride of a season. 

 

[Gawdzukes]

8 hours ago, Provost said:

You stated that players are producing more in their mid 30’s than ever and posted a screen shot of the production of a bunch of 30 and 31 year olds.

 

It is evidence of something, but absolutely not evidence related to anything you are actually saying it is evidence of.

 

If I say it is raining outside, does attaching a screenshot of my fridge count as evidence that it is raining outside?  I guess in your world apparently it does…

 

You said “many” players in their mid 30’s had career years.  The actual truth was two players in their mid 30’s did.  It is a genuinely idiotic argument to now say “many is subjective so it can really mean two”

 

“Many” is not subjective to represent whatever you feel like, words have meanings.  Believe it or not, there are actually books out there that can even tell you the definitions of words.  “Many” by definition means a large, but indeterminate number… or more simply.

 

man·y

/ˈmenē/

 

determiner · adjective

1. a large number of.

   "many people agreed with her"

    

    

   Two is not a large number by any definition.  That isn’t my personal criteria… that is how definitions work.

    

    

As the numbers have shown and people have somewhat alluded to the evidence for re-signing Miller comes down to a gut feeling he'll buck most trends and be a statistical outlier. I don't really like those odds and I'm unsure how he'll age. He could have the fire and gusto to persevere or his lack of footspeed and tough style or even complacency could dramatically slow him down in 4 years. I'm pretty concerned that this year was his first breakout year so late in his career. It seems as if this year was the perfect storm for him to put up points. He played on a team that was out 20 games in so he could play with reckless abandon for most of the season, he played a lot of PP, and he was healthy all year. Not that it's been a problem for him but between Petey's first half, Boeser struggling, injuries, weird line-ups, and Covid, Miller got an awful lot of opportunity to just pour in points. It may not be sustainable in a normal season.

 

The poster you're responding to is putting him in a class with Crosby, Ovechkin, Bergeron, Letang, Marchand, Tavares, Kopitar, Pavelski, and Zuccarello. Does he belong there ... not a heck of a lot of evidence there for that imo.

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

As the numbers have shown and people have somewhat alluded to the evidence for re-signing Miller comes down to a gut feeling he'll buck most trends and be a statistical outlier. I don't really like those odds and I'm unsure how he'll age. He could have the fire and gusto to persevere or his lack of footspeed and tough style or even complacency could dramatically slow him down in 4 years. I'm pretty concerned that this year was his first breakout year so late in his career. It seems as if this year was the perfect storm for him to put up points. He played on a team that was out 20 games in so he could play with reckless abandon for most of the season, he played a lot of PP, and he was healthy all year. Not that it's been a problem for him but between Petey's first half, Boeser struggling, injuries, weird line-ups, and Covid, Miller got an awful lot of opportunity to just pour in points. It may not be sustainable in a normal season.

 

The poster you're responding to is putting him in a class with Crosby, Ovechkin, Bergeron, Letang, Marchand, Tavares, Kopitar, Pavelski, and Zuccarello. Does he belong there ... not a heck of a lot of evidence there for that imo.

2 full, or more seasons of Covid has not helped with Millers incline..  just sayin.

[hammertime]

28 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

As the numbers have shown and people have somewhat alluded to the evidence for re-signing Miller comes down to a gut feeling he'll buck most trends and be a statistical outlier. I don't really like those odds and I'm unsure how he'll age. He could have the fire and gusto to persevere or his lack of footspeed and tough style or even complacency could dramatically slow him down in 4 years. I'm pretty concerned that this year was his first breakout year so late in his career. It seems as if this year was the perfect storm for him to put up points. He played on a team that was out 20 games in so he could play with reckless abandon for most of the season, he played a lot of PP, and he was healthy all year. Not that it's been a problem for him but between Petey's first half, Boeser struggling, injuries, weird line-ups, and Covid, Miller got an awful lot of opportunity to just pour in points. It may not be sustainable in a normal season.

 

The poster you're responding to is putting him in a class with Crosby, Ovechkin, Bergeron, Letang, Marchand, Tavares, Kopitar, Pavelski, and Zuccarello. Does he belong there ... not a heck of a lot of evidence there for that imo.

So what you're saying is he is likely to decline around the time EP is the age Miller is now. so instead we should trade him for picks who won't be in their prime until EP is the age Miller is now?

 

Perfect storm to put up points you say......... JT mostly played with...... Brock Boeser, Podkolzin, Tanner Pearson none of whom were exactly lighting it up. If anything he had an incredible season despite being flanked by 3rd liners. Before you chime in and pretend Brock is a top 6 player he put up a whopping 28 points at even strength. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Reports come out that New Jersey went hard for trading for Miller. 

 

Miller + Dickinson + Poolman for Severson + Zacha + 2nd

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Reports come out that New Jersey went hard for trading for Miller. 

 

Miller + Dickinson + Poolman for Severson + Zacha + 2nd

link?

[Provost]

26 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

As the numbers have shown and people have somewhat alluded to the evidence for re-signing Miller comes down to a gut feeling he'll buck most trends and be a statistical outlier. I don't really like those odds and I'm unsure how he'll age. He could have the fire and gusto to persevere or his lack of footspeed and tough style or even complacency could dramatically slow him down in 4 years. I'm pretty concerned that this year was his first breakout year so late in his career. It seems as if this year was the perfect storm for him to put up points. He played on a team that was out 20 games in so he could play with reckless abandon for most of the season, he played a lot of PP, and he was healthy all year. Not that it's been a problem for him but between Petey's first half, Boeser struggling, injuries, weird line-ups, and Covid, Miller got an awful lot of opportunity to just pour in points. It may not be sustainable in a normal season.

 

The poster you're responding to is putting him in a class with Crosby, Ovechkin, Bergeron, Letang, Marchand, Tavares, Kopitar, Pavelski, and Zuccarello. Does he belong there ... not a heck of a lot of evidence there for that imo.

That is pretty much it.  Maybe Miller WILL buck the trends and they will be absolutely right.

 

That is an entirely different issue to be from whether we should gift him a contract that pays assuming that is going to happen.

 

It is an excellent point about opportunity as well.  Miller was almost our only guy going for half a season.  There is no room upwards for more opportunity as he got it all this season.

 

Garland was excellent 5v5 so how many more points does he get if he was on PP1?

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

25 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

2 full, or more seasons of Covid has not helped with Millers incline..  just sayin.

I was just trying to say with Covid messing with all the line-ups, postponed games and such lots of players missed games, line-ups were changing every game but Miller still got in 80 games with supreme opportunity, partially due to others unavailability. He absolutely made the most of it of course. Kudos to him.

 

I'm just looking at it purely from a statistical point like an NFL (I'm big into this) or NHL fantasy pool player. When you're prognosticating for the upcoming year opportunity is always a huge factor, as is playing on a high scoring team. I would suspect in a draft next year Miller would be ranked to come off the board pretty high. Probably top 15 or so but many experienced drafters would be reluctant to take him so high based on possible regression and a new Canuck approach/real season where Miller doesn't get as many prime minutes. To be honest it's not a massive concern in this situation but it's definitely a point worth considering ... I think. 

 

If you look at Miller's ice time on the team this year it shows the opportunity he had. At 21.04 he's playing way more than all other forwards, and I suspect a 21.04 average ice time per game is pretty high for a forward.

 

[mll]

19 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Reports come out that New Jersey went hard for trading for Miller. 

 

Miller + Dickinson + Poolman for Severson + Zacha + 2nd

NJD are looking to take the next step - they are quite far back and can't really afford to remove their better players or they will not take enough of a step forward.  Stagnation is not what they are looking for - they want to try and make the playoffs.  They need to add good players without taking back cap dumps at the same time, while retaining their own good players or it's just shuffling the deck chairs.

 

Fitzgerald btw refused to trade Severson at the TDL although they were not making the post-season. He explained that he helps them win. Sure sounds like they will try and extend him.

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by mll

[hammertime]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is pretty much it.  Maybe Miller WILL buck the trends and they will be absolutely right.

 

That is an entirely different issue to be from whether we should gift him a contract that pays assuming that is going to happen.

 

It is an excellent point about opportunity as well.  Miller was almost our only guy going for half a season.  There is no room upwards for more opportunity as he got it all this season.

 

Garland was excellent 5v5 so how many more points does he get if he was on PP1?

 

 

Garland was top 30 in the entire league 5v5 so I would say probably a fair amount. 

[Gawdzukes]

35 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So what you're saying is he is likely to decline around the time EP is the age Miller is now. so instead we should trade him for picks who won't be in their prime until EP is the age Miller is now?

 

Perfect storm to put up points you say......... JT mostly played with...... Brock Boeser, Podkolzin, Tanner Pearson none of whom were exactly lighting it up. If anything he had an incredible season despite being flanked by 3rd liners. Before you chime in and pretend Brock is a top 6 player he put up a whopping 28 points at even strength. 

Ummm, nope completely way off base. I was talking purely about how many points he will put up which was the topic I was replying to. I have no idea where you're getting these picks thing and EP being 6 years older thing from.    I'm simply saying he had a lot of opportunity, like I said. You are correct though, it wasn't "perfect" in the sense he didn't have the greatest line-mates. They changed a lot but he was always on line #1, the PK, the PP, and got prime opportunity in every single game he played, which was the point. Even the keep Miller supporters should be able to accept simple facts. It's not a criticism at all, just an observation ... like he got a lot of points this year. My post above this explains a little better maybe.

 

But yeah I say trade him because he'll be regressing in two to three years when our most important players will be in their prime. Sign a player we can't afford to a massive contract then if we're banging on door and have a better team.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I was just trying to say with Covid messing with all the line-ups, postponed games and such lots of players missed games, line-ups were changing every game but Miller still got in 80 games with supreme opportunity, partially due to others unavailability. He absolutely made the most of it of course. Kudos to him.

 

I'm just looking at it purely from a statistical point like an NFL (I'm big into this) or NHL fantasy pool player. When you're prognosticating for the upcoming year opportunity is always a huge factor, as is playing on a high scoring team. I would suspect in a draft next year Miller would be ranked to come off the board pretty high. Probably top 15 or so but many experienced drafters would be reluctant to take him so high based on possible regression and a new Canuck approach/real season where Miller doesn't get as many prime minutes. To be honest it's not a massive concern in this situation but it's definitely a point worth considering ... I think. 

 

If you look at Miller's ice time on the team this year it shows the opportunity he had. At 21.04 he's playing way more than all other forwards, and I suspect a 21.04 average ice time per game is pretty high for a forward.

 

I appreciate this Thanks.

 

Miller did well to respond to opportunity,.  He even thanked the Canucks for that.

 

I think first and foremost is making sure Boudreau comes back..   I think the chemistry he had with the entire team speaks volumes to how the team played in general.

His awareness to give others opportunities, is an impression felt by players hoping to bring out the best in themselves, and the ability to fairly show what strengths they have and how they can contribute.

it’s all any player hopes for,  is to play with a Coach like this,  one who is aware.

[N4ZZY]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Just my two bits,.   And a bit of a D-rail,

But I think signing Bruce is the only way this team stays together for the next season, and probably the one after.

 

The players here finally have a Coach they have bonded with and are happy to play for ,.

Looking back, the years of WD , and Green have not created the same room Boudreau has since he walked in.

He seems to have that “Uncle” attitude that every one love playing for .

If he is not behind the bench next season that might mean a lot to quite a few players who want to continue with the same work ethic, opportunity, and fun Bruce helped create.

 

I know who is available to replace Bruce..  but I don’t care.

Signing Boudreau  is a huge piece of the puzzle to players signing here , in the now, and the future. 

I think I agree with you in the sense that the players like Bruce, and for management to not be able to sign him would be a huge red flag for the players. At the same time though, this is a business. But pissing off your players is not good business. Why is that we cannot have competent management here? I feel like I got PTSD when it comes to the Canucks. Players not wanting to sign here (Horvat, Petey eventually, etc), coaches not wanting to be here, etc, etc. Only a feeling, though, not rooted in any facts or evidence. 

 

[Coconuts]

Dunno, I'm not convinced Boudreau coming back equates to our bringing Miller back the way some folks do. Boudreau's coached in the NHL for 15 seasons now and he's had a lot of quality players play for him over the years, I'm not convinced one year is enough for Miller to somehow be a deal maker for him coming back. I also don't see him as a long term option, and yes, it's because of his age. There aren't many NHL coaches who've coached into their late 60's, and the only coach I can dig up to have coached during his 70's is Al Arbour. Bowman got close. 

 

Plus, it's not his job. He has input regarding the roster but he's not going to be making the calls Rutherford and Al make. But then again, I've also repeatedly mentioned that I believe this team could be in the mix for a playoff spot next season Miller or no Miller, Bruce has his chance to try and get us there now. 

 

Management likely has a number in mind regarding term and dollars and if Miller isn't going to bite on it he'll be gone. I still believe he'll be shipped out. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Coconuts

[Gawdzukes]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:31 PM, SilentSam said:

I appreciate this Thanks.

 

Miller did well to respond to opportunity,.  He even thanked the Canucks for that.

 

I think first and foremost is making sure Boudreau comes back..   I think the chemistry he had with the entire team speaks volumes to how the team played in general.

His awareness to give others opportunities, is an impression felt by players hoping to bring out the best in themselves, and the ability to fairly show what strengths they have and how they can contribute.

it’s all any player hopes for,  is to play with a Coach like this,  one who is aware.

Heeeeeee's baaaaaaaack!

 

Step 1 complete!

 

Should start getting pretty exciting in a month or so.

[Me_]

has Miller been traded yet no great moving on

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

has Miller been traded yet no great moving on