[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[SilentSam]

We need to change the Tittle of this thread for every trade proposal on it ..

 

[4petesake]

17 minutes ago, BPA said:

PK is a future hall of famer.  He’s been a superstar since coming into the league.

 

Miller is not quite in the same category.  It is far more likely that Miller will experience a production drop just like all the other NHL players before him.

 

I get you are defending Miller but try not to pump his tires too much.

36 years old

Ray Whitney 77 pts

Ray Ferraro 76 pts

Andrew Brunnette 61 pts

 

35 years old

Patrick Elias 78 pts

Dr Recchi 75 pts

Mark Giordano 74 pts

Jason Blake 63

 

I omitted HoFers so generally this group seems solid but not elite.

 

[DeNiro]

15 minutes ago, JM_ said:

bingo. Trading Miller for picks and prospects is all about what the next window is, not the current one. 

The real goal needs to be focused on trimming the cap of low value contracts and gaining cap flexibility for 3 years from now.

 

Keep developing this core by surrounding them with good players but then have the cap space to add big pieces when they enter their prime and show they’re ready to be contenders.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by DeNiro

[Smashian Kassian]

Pretty good interview on the John Scott podcast.

 

The more this has dragged on the more I hope we can keep him.

[DeNiro]

8 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Pretty good interview on the John Scott podcast.

 

The more this has dragged on the more I hope we can keep him.

I mean he said they’re not close on a contract which everyone latched onto, but from what I heard he sounded very much like a guy that’s invested in being a Canuck. 

I think him wanting to be a part of this team long term is genuine.

 

As for the contract “not being close” that can mean a lot of things. One phone call can change everything. If the Canucks add one more year and more trade protection that could potentially make all the difference.

 

Negotiations have a way of picking up steam very quickly when both sides are willing to make concessions.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by DeNiro

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, JM_ said:

bingo. Trading Miller for picks and prospects is all about what the next window is, not the current one. 

Exactly...the point I was trying to make.

 

People arguing about JT not fitting this core's window are slotting in picks like they will....they're good to go, NHL ready. Even prospects, it can take awhile to figure out your team mates style of play, timing, etc. This team's just starting to gel and the less we disrupt that, the better in my view. Let the dust settle this season.

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

Exactly...the point I was trying to make.

 

People arguing about JT not fitting this core's window are slotting in picks like they will....they're good to go, NHL ready. Even prospects, it can take awhile to figure out your team mates style of play, timing, etc. This team's just starting to gel and the less we disrupt that, the better in my view. Let the dust settle this season.

 

 

Well they’re acting like those picks will be top 10, elite players.

 

The teams we’d most likely be trading with will be giving us late 1sts. The likelihood of those being impact players are quite low. Essentially letting Miller go for lottery tickets.

 

In that scenario we end up in the same place except we don’t get Miller for another season.

[Rick_theRyper]

15 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

36 years old

Ray Whitney 77 pts

Ray Ferraro 76 pts

Andrew Brunnette 61 pts

 

35 years old

Patrick Elias 78 pts

Dr Recchi 75 pts

Mark Giordano 74 pts

Jason Blake 63

 

I omitted HoFers so generally this group seems solid but not elite.

 

(Almost) All played over a decade ago in a higher scoring game.. so this is kinda meh..

 

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I mean he said they’re not close on a contract which everyone latched onto, but from what I heard he sounded very much like a guy that’s invested in being a Canuck. 

I think him wanting to be a part of this team long term is genuine.

 

As for the contract “not being close can mean a lot of things”. One phone call can change everything. If the Canucks add one more year and more trade protection that could potentially make all the difference.

 

Negotiations have a way of picking up steam very quickly when both sides are willing to make concessions.

 

Me too. He realizes that this team is starting to put something special together...especially with Bruce at the helm. He saw the dramatic turnaround and that's a bit of a sky's the limit tone when considering where they were and how they managed to ignite.

 

You have nailed exactly how I feel about it all....it's an ever changing deal as time goes on. JT sits with Podz in the room and SEES that he's got potential to be a beast. JT and Bo were developing a bit of Sedinery like chemistry with some pretty incredible set ups. Petey's back. Demko's "the best goaltender in the world".  Quinn's a mighty fine player.

 

If JT was just a money man (as big payout guys here have been), ok. But he's a FIERCE competitor who hates to lose...so he'll definitely be thinking about all of it. The money may be the driving factor but when you have a stable offer with a team you're been provided opportunity to flourish on and are seen as a leader, that weighs in too.

 

 

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

That’s why I shake my head at some of these proposals, they make no sense.

 

Like lets trade for picks in the 2023 draft that will make us a contender! 
 

A 2023 draft pick (if they pan out) won’t be ready to make an impact for 5 or 6 years. That means Horvat will be 33, Hughes will be 28, Petey will be 29, and Demko will be 32. More importantly Hughes and Demko’s deals will have expired and they’ll be due for big paydays.

 

So is that the goal to have like a 1 or 2 year window in 5 years? Cause after that we’re basically going into another rebuild.

 

The goal needs to be that we’re a contender in 2 to 3 years. That means any pieces we get back need to be 20-23 year old prospects.

Why not both?

[awalk]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Exactly...the point I was trying to make.

 

People arguing about JT not fitting this core's window are slotting in picks like they will....they're good to go, NHL ready. Even prospects, it can take awhile to figure out your team mates style of play, timing, etc. This team's just starting to gel and the less we disrupt that, the better in my view. Let the dust settle this season.

 

 

Pretty sure that's what this management group has decided on, so regardless of the fans who don't believe in this core, we're going to see this core get their shot. At this point I've changed my stance and I'm hoping it's with Miller rather than without but we'll see... 

[Rick_theRyper]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Well they’re acting like those picks will be top 10, elite players.

 

The teams we’d most likely be trading with will be giving us late 1sts. The likelihood of those being impact players are quite low. Essentially letting Miller go for lottery tickets.

 

In that scenario we end up in the same place except we don’t get Miller for another season.

Yeah I only thought we should trade miller if it's a defensmen like Dobson or something coming back. Best case scenario now is a good resign for him...because it's pretty clear he isn't getting that return we all thought. 

 

Petey better get a lot better in the face depot here this year. Because if we cant resign Miller and rumors are true and he want to head back home back east...we will be terrible in the dot next year.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Exactly...the point I was trying to make.

 

People arguing about JT not fitting this core's window are slotting in picks like they will....they're good to go, NHL ready. Even prospects, it can take awhile to figure out your team mates style of play, timing, etc. This team's just starting to gel and the less we disrupt that, the better in my view. Let the dust settle this season.

 

 

yep, pure speculation stuff. 

 

We know we have an issue with the d group, lets work on fixing that by moving our non-elite pieces maybe?

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Me too. He realizes that this team is starting to put something special together...especially with Bruce at the helm. He saw the dramatic turnaround and that's a bit of a sky's the limit tone when considering where they were and how they managed to ignite.

 

You have nailed exactly how I feel about it all....it's an ever changing deal as time goes on. JT sits with Podz in the room and SEES that he's got potential to be a beast. JT and Bo were developing a bit of Sedinery like chemistry with some pretty incredible set ups. Petey's back. Demko's "the best goaltender in the world". 

 

If JT were just a money man (as big payout guys here have been), ok. But he's a FIERCE competitor who hates to lose...so he'll definitely be thinking about all of it. The money may be the driving factor but when you have a stable offer with a team you're been provided opportunity to flourish on and are seen as a leader, that weighs in too.

For all we know this is just strategy by his agent to push some pressure points. They may have a plan to sign a deal, but him and his agent know there’s no rush with one year still on his deal.

 

I think we’ll know where things actually stand when we get closer to puck drop. Right now both sides are just enjoying their summers.

 

Late September and early October I expect both sides will really be pushing for a deal. Hopefully the hype and the excitement of the season and seeing teammates will motivate Miller to get his agent to get the deal done.

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Yeah I only thought we should trade miller if it's a defensmen like Dobson or something coming back. Best case scenario now is a good resign for him...because it's pretty clear he isn't getting that return we all thought. 

Exactly, and some aren't moving off their stance despite time going on and the offers not being there or meeting expectations. I'm glad the management group didn't settle or feel desperate...they're not.

 

I feel that plays more into the team's favour than JT's....it's got to be a bit of a concern. Wait for the unknown and a season to pass where the bar's been set pretty high or sign on for a solid deal with a team that you're comfortable with and seem to have faith in.

 

 

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Why not both?

Because the value of the 1st just takes away from the level of prospect you’re getting.

 

People put way too much value on 1st round picks. For me a prospect that you can actually watch and is more of a known value is a way better asset to me.

You have no idea what players will be available with the draft pick or whether you can fill a need. With prospects you can pick and choose based on actual needs.

 

And then the timeline just doesn’t match up. You’re basically planning for the next rebuild/retool which should never be the goal when you have young stars just entering their prime.

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

For all we know this is just strategy by his agent to push some pressure points. They may have a plan to sign a deal, but him and his agent know there’s no rush with one year still on his deal.

 

I think we’ll know where things actually stand when we get closer to puck drop. Right now both sides are just enjoying their summers.

 

Late September and early October I expect both sides will really be pushing for a deal. Hopefully the hype and the excitement of the season and seeing teammates will motivate Miller to get his agent to get the deal done.

I really thought about this...it's possible for sure because the game of cat and mouse is trying to extract the most possible....but that's generally not set in stone and is somewhat flexible. A starting point.

 

In seeing big contract negotiations up close and personal, I know that it's not what you see on the surface. I even wondered if the interview was set up as part of this...to market JT as the fire burns out a bit.

 

You are bang on with your comments...agree 100%.

[aGENT]

29 minutes ago, JM_ said:

bingo. Trading Miller for picks and prospects is all about what the next window is, not the current one. 

 

9 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Exactly...the point I was trying to make.

 

People arguing about JT not fitting this core's window are slotting in picks like they will....they're good to go, NHL ready. Even prospects, it can take awhile to figure out your team mates style of play, timing, etc. This team's just starting to gel and the less we disrupt that, the better in my view. Let the dust settle this season.

 

 

Where are all these trade Miller for JUST picks proposals that you guys keep ranting about....? Do I have all these users on ignore? I don't see you quoting anyone. Or are you guys just arguing with phantoms?

 

And FYI, our young core's window/prime is +/-2-7 years from now, give or take. So yes, picks do fit in that window and their ELC's will be much required to supplement what will then be an expensive, prime aged core.

 

Do you guys not get tired arguing the same already debunked straw men? And yes, F's overwhelmingly decline at 33. Noting generational/HOF outliers that buck that trend does not change that any more than it did 1000 pages ago.

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Where are all these trade Miller for JUST picks proposals that you guys keep ranting about....? Do I have all these users on ignore? I don't see you quoting anyone. Or are you guys just arguing with phantoms?

 

And FYI, our young core's window/prime is +/-2-7 years from now, give or take. So yes, picks do fit in that window and their ELC's will be much required to supplement what will then be an expensive, prime aged core.

 

Do you guys not get tired arguing the same already debunked straw men? And yes, F's overwhelmingly decline at 33. Noting generational/HOF outliers that buck that trend does not change that any more than it did 1000 pages ago.

LOL....so your points are THE valid ones.

 

Sure, ok.

 

The flipside to "f's overwhelmingly declining at 33" is that picks don't always pan out. There's risk involved in both scenarios.

 

Go into the proposals and dig them out for yourself...no need to get uppity. We all get to present our arguments, even if tiring.

[coryberg]