[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

48 minutes ago, J-23 said:

JT probably sign for 8-8.5 at 7 years. 
 

Will JT be worth the money at 34? Who really knows? That’s not a question anyone can really answer…At 7 years, I think JT gives you 5 solid season and average the last two.

 

JT on pace for 90 points, without him we are a bottom 10 team. If we move JT we might as well start rebuild 2.0. This team is pretty much .700 win percentage under BB right now. We should be looking to get better now. Trading JT doesn’t do that.

We'll see, but I figure we pay market value for him. We can agree to disagree on this, but I don't see us getting a discount.

 

That's just it though, you don't pay 8.5M+ for solid. You pay that, or more, for his current level of play. Can he do it? Like you said, anyone's guess. But I'm sure you can at least understand the hesitancy of some of us have regarding what it'd take to retain him.

 

A bottom team this year, not necessarily next. A Miller trade doesn't likely happen in a vacuum, we can't operate under the assumption we'd go into next season with what we currently have minus Miller. You'd also have whatever return we get and the cap space we'd free up, and like I said, there would likely be other moves to move people in and out.

 

Better or worse depends on what you do, who you move out, and who you bring in. For all we know Miller come come back closer to earth next season, or get hurt, lots could happen. They call it a career year for a reason. Time will tell, but it's not as black and white as move Miller and we won't be able to be competitive next season.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Coconuts

[J-23]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

We'll see, but I figure we pay market value for him. We can agree to disagree on this, but I don't see us getting a discount.

 

That's just it though, you don't pay 8.5M+ for solid. You pay that, or more, for his current level of play. Can he do it? Like you said, anyone's guess. But I'm sure you can at least understand the hesitancy of some of us have regarding what it'd take to retain him.

 

A bottom team this year, not necessarily next. A Miller trade doesn't likely happen in a vacuum, we can't operate under the assumption we'd go into next season with what we currently have minus Miller. You'd also have whatever return we get and the cap space we'd free up, and like I said, there would likely be other moves to move people in and out.

 

Better or worse depends on what you do, who you move out, and who you bring in. For all we know Miller come come back closer to earth next season, or get hurt, lots could happen. They call it a career year for a reason. Time will tell, but it's not as black and white as move Miller and we won't be able to be competitive next season.

 

Sorry. The number don’t lie. We move Miller, it’s going to be a rebuild 2.0. 
 

It wouldn’t be necessarily a bad thing if we can get Laf and Schneider, but it’s going to be a long decade again.

[Me_]

9 minutes ago, J-23 said:

 

Sorry. The number don’t lie. We move Miller, it’s going to be a rebuild 2.0. 
 

It wouldn’t be necessarily a bad thing if we can get Laf and Schneider, but it’s going to be a long decade again.

Boudreau’s captain.

[J-23]

11 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Boudreau’s captain.

Eh…Bo is fine as captain. Captain is just a letter on a players jersey at the end of the day. Need multiple leaders on a team. Not sure how this Bo vs. Miller thing started…

 

Some people don’t see Miller as a leader though. He curses sometimes. That’s a little too much for some people.

[Coconuts]

32 minutes ago, J-23 said:

 

Sorry. The number don’t lie. We move Miller, it’s going to be a rebuild 2.0. 
 

It wouldn’t be necessarily a bad thing if we can get Laf and Schneider, but it’s going to be a long decade again.

I disagree, and I explained why in my post. This year's team? Yeah, we're a bottom feeders without him. Next year's team? Yeah, I fully believe we could compete without him.

 

Trading Miller wouldn't be our only move, and I don't see why Pettersson, Hughes, Podz, and Hoglander couldn't take steps forward. We have a great management team in place, I fully expect us to be in the mix for a spot Miller or no Miller.

 

A surefire playoff team? No, but in the mix. A step or two back to take three steps forward isn't awful. There's a difference between gradually shuffling things and a teardown.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Coconuts

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

This will probably be his last contract.
 

Why would he settle for 10M for 5 years? When he could get 8M for 7 years on the open market, get that job security and that extra 6M.

He'd play 2 years for 6M. 3M a year. He'd get 50 Million in less time. If he's still playing at a high level at 35 he could just sign a decent contract with bonuses. 

[Me_]

36 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I disagree, and I explained why in my post. This year's team? Yeah, we're a bottom feeders without him. Next year's team? Yeah, I fully believe we could compete without him.

 

Trading Miller wouldn't be our only move, and I don't see why Pettersson, Hughes, Podz, and Hoglander couldn't take steps forward. We have a great management team in place, I fully expect us to be in the mix for a spot Miller or no Miller.

 

A surefire playoff team? No, but in the mix. A step or two back to take three steps forward isn't awful. There's a difference between gradually shuffling things and a teardown.

Disagree with facts. 
 

Moving on…

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Disagree with facts. 
 

Moving on…

Nope, that's not what I disagreed with but props on your reading ability. 

 

I agreed that we'd be bottom feeders without him this season, and that graphic is for this season. It's literally there, go read it. 

 

I do disagree that it'd be rebuild 2.0 though, and guess what, I explained that too!

[Me_]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Nope, that's not what I disagreed with but props on your reading ability. 

 

I agreed that we'd be bottom feeders without him this season, and that graphic is for this season. It's literally there, go read it. 

 

I do disagree that it'd be rebuild 2.0 though, and guess what, I explained that too!

Miller brings something to the table no other Canucks player brings; a contagious competitive edge that makes everyone else better.

 

Those types players are very rare. When you get one, you do everything to keep him.

[Sweathog]

Unless Miller is adamant about wanting to leave the Canucks, then I don't see how we can trade him this year. I'm thinking that trading him at this year's trade deadline, with the team playing so well after getting rid of Green, would be a big gut-punch to the rest of the team by sending their best player packing. It's essentially a message from management saying that they don't believe in the team despite their high level of play this year, and I'm worried about the effect on morale.

 

If the Canucks don't go anywhere this year, and seem to be out of contention next year, then trade him at next year's deadline. If we get less assets in return, compared to what we would get this year, then so be it.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sweathog

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Me_ said:

Miller brings something to the table no other Canucks player brings; a contagious competitive edge that makes everyone else better.

 

Those types players are very rare. When you get one, you do everything to keep him.

You're more than welcome to think that. I, on the other hand, think the team could do just fine without him. 

 

It's funny, I'll get grief for thinking moving Miller is the best move, and yet I'm somehow more optimistic about our chances without him that some of you who advocate for keeping him. 

 

Yes, this season we'd be closer to the bottom without him. Same can be said of Demko. But yeah, I do believe we'd do just fine without him next season. I don't believe you do everything to keep him, because there needs to be a point where you're prepared to walk away when it comes to negotiations. I'm not keen on paying him 8.5-9M+ for seven or eight years, and that's what I expect it'll take to keep him. If you are, fantastic, good for you. But there's more to this team that JT Miller, and I believe management needs to weigh the potential risks alongside the potential benefits you see. You probably see our window as being within the next 2-3 years, I see it as being a bit further out. 

 

I'd rather build around Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko. We've got other good pieces like OEL, Garland, Podkolzin, and Hoglander. I'd rather build for a more sustainable window than try to milk whatever's left of Miller's prime. I question his ability to maintain this level of play, I think it's likely this is his career year. Do I know if it is? Of course not, just like you don't know whether he'll sustain this level of play for years. I'm not interested in paying 8.5-9M+ for 50-60 points. 

 

Any Miller trade doesn't likely happen in a vacuum. You get the return for him, would absolutely should be substantial, and the cap space you free up. Move Boeser and you've acquired more assets and cap space. Now, let's make this clear, I don't think we'd be trading these players for magic beans, we'd be trading them for NHL caliber youth or players who are on the cusp of making it. Would top picks be involved? I'd fully expect a 1st in any Miller trade. But no, picks wouldn't be the primary target. Then you've got cap space to operate in free agency, assets to trade or utilize, and cap flex for our new and improved management team to work with. 

 

Move Miller and you've still got Horvat, Pettersson, Garland, Podkolzin, Hughes, OEL, and Demko to restructure around. Those are all quality pieces. If we retain Boeser at say.. 5.75-6.25 and you can add him to that mix too. Moving Miller won't result in a teardown, I wouldn't even call it a rebuild as most of the core pieces remain intact, but we could certainly restructure around that group. 

 

You don't have to agree that's the way we should proceed, but there are many fans who see it that way. You just might not see them around here as much, but CDC's active userbase also doesn't reflect the fanbase as a whole. 

[stanleysteamersmyl]

Miller is one of the top 10 players in the NHL.  He can score, pass, fight and very competitive.  He has heart, emotion and hates to lose.

He can't be replaced.  I say they extend him for 4 years and $200 million with benefits. 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

 

Sorry. The number don’t lie. We move Miller, it’s going to be a rebuild 2.0. 
 

It wouldn’t be necessarily a bad thing if we can get Laf and Schneider, but it’s going to be a long decade again.

Respectfully.

 

If Miller sneezes too hard on the toilet and blows out his O-ring we're in for a rebuild anyway.  Any team this dependant on one specific player that isn't a goalie for their success or failure; is a team that is kidding itself.

 

He's our end all be all; but that means he's also our biggest weakness because we don't have anything to replace what he does IF he does go down, or takes a night off

[HKSR]

7 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I disagree, and I explained why in my post. This year's team? Yeah, we're a bottom feeders without him. Next year's team? Yeah, I fully believe we could compete without him.

 

Trading Miller wouldn't be our only move, and I don't see why Pettersson, Hughes, Podz, and Hoglander couldn't take steps forward. We have a great management team in place, I fully expect us to be in the mix for a spot Miller or no Miller.

 

A surefire playoff team? No, but in the mix. A step or two back to take three steps forward isn't awful. There's a difference between gradually shuffling things and a teardown.

This is the one thing I still can't wrap my head around.  Many advocates for trading Miller are expecting our young guys to take significant steps forward in the next couple years.  If they do that without Miller, why can't they do that WITH Miller?  

 

Just my thoughts are if that is the case, sure as hell this team would be a contender in a couple years considering they're already playing .700 hockey.

[Spoosh]

I don’t see why we should move him.

 

Quick calculation shows we’ve been one of the top teams in the league under Bruce. With the exact same roster JB built btw.
We are a playing and performing like a playoff team, just outside thanks to Travis Green tho. Why break up the band now? I’d go as far as saying we’re pretty close to contending with a few smaller tweaks.

[Timråfan]

10 hours ago, J-23 said:

JT probably sign for 8-8.5 at 7 years. 
 

Will JT be worth the money at 34? Who really knows? That’s not a question anyone can really answer…At 7 years, I think JT gives you 5 solid season and average the last two.

 

JT on pace for 90 points, without him we are a bottom 10 team. If we move JT we might as well start rebuild 2.0. This team is pretty much .700 win percentage under BB right now. We should be looking to get better now. Trading JT doesn’t do that.

Demko is the reason we’re not a bottom ten team.

If Miller gets traded for a lot we get maybe3 or 4 more players and depth is needed in playoffs.

So it’s not quite clear if Miller or 4 bottom 6 players is worth more in playoffs.

As I said before, take away Miller and a lot of other players will raise their PP.

Hughes and Petey is still here and bot are superstars.

[Timråfan]

54 minutes ago, HKSR said:

This is the one thing I still can't wrap my head around.  Many advocates for trading Miller are expecting our young guys to take significant steps forward in the next couple years.  If they do that without Miller, why can't they do that WITH Miller?  

 

Just my thoughts are if that is the case, sure as hell this team would be a contender in a couple years considering they're already playing .700 hockey.

It’s only two things that makes a trade interesting. If Miller is too expensive he will make the team depth worse and we really need that really good RHD. Depth and RHD is possible if we don’t engage in expensive UFA contracts.
Miller is the only player worth anything and will he bring in 4  or more young players instead of his UFA cap it’s tempting

I’m not one of those who think Miller will sign for 7x7 so he’ll cost a lot. 

 

 

[EternalCanuckFan]

At this point I would be surprised at a Miller trade at this year's TDL.  If Miller is even traded, then I think it'll be anytime starting in the offseason and before the 2023 trade deadline and based entirely on how extension negotiations go.  There might be genuine interest in extending in Vancouver on both sides but then there are the cap issues to consider.  If Boeser is traded at this year's trade deadline, then I think we will probably see the Canucks go hard at re-signing Miller, perhaps at the higher end of the AAVs that have been speculated.

 

I have been thinking about how Miller as a #1 or #2C has been such a new thing.  When Miller was acquired, there wasn't even any certainty about whether he would be a good top-6 forward.  Miller had already been reasonably productive in NYR (and then had a bit of a down year in Tampa) but never at the level he reached in his first year with the Canucks and certainly not at the level he's producing at now.  I think this is one of the things that is so hard to discern about Miller's capacity to keep this level of production going in the future.  The other issue, IMHO, is that if the Canucks do end up signing Miller to a long term contract at something like $8.5M AAV, then I think that has to be based on the projection that he is going to continue to be a top flight C.  Up until last season when Pettersson was injured for the remainder of the season, Miller had not consistently played C.  IIRC, he played C on special teams and took faceoffs for the Lotto Line, but he wasn't necessarily viewed as a full-time C.  I think this has important implications because it will effect roster composition (e.g. it might induce a Horvat trade).

[Me_]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Demko is the reason we’re not a bottom ten team.

If Miller gets traded for a lot we get maybe3 or 4 more players and depth is needed in playoffs.

So it’s not quite clear if Miller or 4 bottom 6 players is worth more in playoffs.

As I said before, take away Miller and a lot of other players will raise their PP.

Hughes and Petey is still here and bot are superstars.

Perpetual rebuild.

 

Are you guys addicted to seeing young kids develop for years?

 

Thats considered fun to you guys?

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Me_

[SilentSam]

3 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Perpetual rebuild.

 

Are you guys addicted to seeing young kids develop for years?

 

Thats fun do you guys?

 

Oiler fan spillover ….   The lottery is a couch game they love to win.