[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Mustard Tiger]

Imagine that, Even the hall of fame guy says what's the rush? He has a year left and still a TDL to go.

 

But what if...

[Locke Lamora]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Good on JR for pushing back. Especially on Donnie. His comment was bush league. Glad JR called him out on that. D&D came off as clowns in this clip. 

As a long time Donnie fan I have to admit I haven’t followed him to his new, and strange to me, radio-on-TV talk show. He’s speeding his way to retirement/irrelevance in my view. End of an era.

 

JT showing up to camp without an extension in hand is going to be an absolute dream scenario for the local media. 
 

If I were forced to place money on the ultimate scenario with JT I’d say he’s gonna walk for free. Hope JR proves me wrong. My opinion of this management team has not seen an upward trajectory thus far and there are things that concern me. There are aspects of Ray Ferraro’s label of Bennings “no plan plan” that I’m seeing with the new regime. 

[Mustard Tiger]

37 minutes ago, aliboy said:

 

Should have trolled harder with the weirdddd eye emotes as well

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

As a long time Donnie fan I have to admit I haven’t followed him to his new, and strange to me, radio-on-TV talk show. He’s speeding his way to retirement/irrelevance in my view. End of an era.

 

JT showing up to camp without an extension in hand is going to be an absolute dream scenario for the local media. 
 

If I were forced to place money on the ultimate scenario with JT I’d say he’s gonna walk for free. Hope JR proves me wrong. My opinion of this management team has not seen an upward trajectory thus far and there are things that concern me. There are aspects of Ray Ferraro’s label of Bennings “no plan plan” that I’m seeing with the new regime. 

Wasn’t it Ray who said (years ago) that our owner meddles in hockey ops?  

[Provost]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Trading Miller at the 2022 TDL wasn’t going to happen because we were in a playoff hunt.  Friedman posted a tweet a couple weeks before that TDL that Miller was taken off the market.  If similar circumstance happens at the 2023 TDL, then we won’t be trading Miller then either.  

We were in an illusion of a playoff hunt.  Even with the big winning streak and the long losing streaks of teams in our division we got up to a high of about 25% chance of making the playoffs… 

 

We ended up exactly as far out of the playoffs as the models predicted back before Christmas.  People get all bent out of shape when I post my threads showing the odds, but it is just math.  With a league that has really good teams only winning 65% of games and really bad teams still winning 35-40% of their games… there just isn’t a likely way to gain ground.  Almost every team (80%) out of the playoffs by American Thanksgiving miss the playoffs.  If you take any team that is more than 4 points out of the playoffs at that point, almost none end up making the playoffs.

 

Just like one half decent year when Benning took over probably put the organization 5 years behind in development… this past half season may have closed a contending window that was opening a couple of years from now. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Provost

[Jester13]

57 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think his trade value actually goes up at next TDL (assuming he can maintain 1PPG+). Particularly with retention as an even more viable option at that point. Teams will know where they are in the standings and have more pressure to add to go on a run.

 

The problem is, it also comes with substantially more risk (injury, down season etc) as well as it being a major distraction all year.

 

Then there's the issue of trading one of our best players, in the midst of a (hopeful) playoff push, and the effect that has in the room.

If teams aren't currently willing to part with a young RHDman as a main piece, I'm not so optimistic that they'll be willing when they're in the hunt at the TDL. Add this to what you also mentioned, and these are all valid reasons for the current impatience around Miller. 

[Fanuck]

11 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

I don't know if the Pens would let go of Pickering, but I would be happy with Poulin instead.  I think they will

try to trade Kaps or let him walk. I don't think he fits their team, for whatever reason. 

Hextall just re-signed 2/3 of his core (Tanger/Gino) indicating to everyone they're all-in.  By the time Pickering is able to contribute meaningful minutes that core will be done. They need to decide if/how they're going to bolster their lineup because clearly they weren't good enough last season. Keeping an asset like Pickering, while prudent for the future,  is counterproductive to being in win-now.  Crosby is a generational talent and has given everything to the Pens, he deserves another legit contender around him imo.  Their biggest issue is cap-space and useless passengers like Zucker.  The ideal scenario for Pit is a 3rd party who can take on some dead weight in return for assets. 

 

I suggested the following but was questioned by people who actually believe the returning player isn't a legit top pairing dman:

To Pit: Miller

To Van: Chychrun 

To AZ: Marino, Zucker, 1st, whatever else Pit needs to throw in to make it happen. 

[Provost]

4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

What's worse? or better yet, what's the best way to go?

 

1. Playing out this season with Miller, trying to get him re-signed to a reasonable contract, but then not being able to and he walks for nothing to a US team (like Gaudreau)

 

2. Re-signing Miller long term (6-8 years) for 8+, and then watching the decline, possibly be handcuffed cap wise down the road.

 

3. Trading Miller now and acquiring good, younger assets, but then having to go into the season without Miller's leadership and production.

 

You already have them in order from worst to least bad.

[ilduce39]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Wasn’t it Ray who said (years ago) that our owner meddles in hockey ops?  

Ray better keep his yap shut now that his wife is AGM.

[higgyfan]

3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Hextall just re-signed 2/3 of his core (Tanger/Gino) indicating to everyone they're all-in.  By the time Pickering is able to contribute meaningful minutes that core will be done. They need to decide if/how they're going to bolster their lineup because clearly they weren't good enough last season. Keeping an asset like Pickering, while prudent for the future,  is counterproductive to being in win-now.  Crosby is a generational talent and has given everything to the Pens, he deserves another legit contender around him imo.  Their biggest issue is cap-space and useless passengers like Zucker.  The ideal scenario for Pit is a 3rd party who can take on some dead weight in return for assets. 

 

I suggested the following but was questioned by people who actually believe the returning player isn't a legit top pairing dman:

To Pit: Miller

To Van: Chychrun 

To AZ: Marino, Zucker, 1st, whatever else Pit needs to throw in to make it happen. 

Chychrun is a great player on a very nice contract.  He is a natural LD, which this team doesn't need.  Has he

switched to RD for AZ?

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, Provost said:

We were in an illusion of a playoff hunt.  Even with the big winning streak and the long losing streaks of teams in our division we got up to a high of about 25% chance of making the playoffs… 

 

We ended up exactly as far out of the playoffs as the models predicted back before Christmas.  People get all bent out of shape when I post my threads showing the odds, but it is just math.  With a league that has really good teams only winning 65% of games and really bad teams still winning 35-40% of their games… there just isn’t a likely way to gain ground.  Almost every team (80%) out of the playoffs by American Thanksgiving miss the playoffs.  If you take any team that is more than 4 points out of the playoffs at that point, almost none end up making the playoffs.

 

Just like one half decent year when Benning took over probably put the organization 5 years behind in development… this past half season may have closed a contending window that was opening a couple of years from now. 

Good points.

I've said as much many times here but was met with vitriol from people who think BB is some kind of coaching messiah and could easily have had this team in 1st place based on his record since the coaching change.  

 

JR said it himself,  the 2nd half record of the club was unsustainable over an 80+ game schedule.  There was a bump in play after BB took over and we faced several backup goalies playing behind guys who were on the wrong side of back to back games on long western road trips.

 

Miller, Huggy, and Demko all had career years last season and we still weren't good enough.   They could all repeat,  or not, then what?  

[mll]

Friedman on his 32 Thoughts said that Nashville asked about Miller but he doesn't think they have the assets to do it.  

 

Nashville's competitive rebuild is not exactly going as planned with some of their younger players not seizing the opportunity.   With Duchene/Johansen re-bounding (after poor seasons where Poile tried to trade both and left them exposed to Seattle), got to wonder if they won't change strategy.  Forsberg just re-signed, they just added McDonagh, they hope for Johansen/Duchene to continue to perform.  There's also new ownership with deeper pockets and Poile might not have the same standing as before. They also have not been able to add a top-6 F in free agency so might be forced to go the trade route.  Can't see them going into the season without a 2nd line.  

 

He also thinks there are going to be some tampering accusations.  He's not sure if there will be formal complaints and wonders if they will become actionable.  Apparently lots of screams about tampering on Wednesday night. 

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by mll

[Canucks Curse]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

Friedman on his 32 Thoughts said that Nashville asked about Miller but he doesn't think they have the assets to do it.  

 

Nashville's competitive rebuild is not exactly going as planned with some of their younger players not seizing the opportunity.   With Duchene/Johansen re-bounding (after poor seasons where Poile tried to trade both and left them exposed to Seattle), got to wonder if they won't change strategy.  Forsberg just re-signed, they just added McDonagh, they hope for Johansen/Duchene to continue to perform.  There's also new ownership with deeper pockets and Poile might not have the same standing as before. They also have not been able to add a top-6 F in free agency so might be forced to go the trade route.  Can't see them going into the season without a 2nd line.  

 

He also thinks there are going to be some tampering accusations.  He's not sure if there will be formal complaints and wonders if they will become actionable.  Apparently lots of screams about tampering on Wednesday night. 

 

what about Fabbro (RD)+ Trenin (great 3C)+ 2nd?

They have Jeannot, they have picks, they have the assets!!!!

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'm happy to decide on him until next TDL, give him the year to see how he performs and take it from there. Hopefully he drops to PPG and we can sign him 5y x 7.5Mish or his value will drop enough that we can trade him. Regardless, right now he's unmovable and unsignable. Having a career year and 100+ points in your contract year the way Gaudreau did is really tough but I doubt Miller will top his 99 point season.

[Fanuck]

5 minutes ago, mll said:

  Apparently lots of screams about tampering on Wednesday night. 

 

That's going to happen when guys like Weeks are leaking things before the deadline even passes.

[Provost]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

Friedman on his 32 Thoughts said that Nashville asked about Miller but he doesn't think they have the assets to do it.  

 

Nashville's competitive rebuild is not exactly going as planned with some of their younger players not seizing the opportunity.   With Duchene/Johansen re-bounding (after poor seasons where Poile tried to trade both and left them exposed to Seattle), got to wonder if they won't change strategy.  Forsberg just re-signed, they just added McDonagh, they hope for Johansen/Duchene to continue to perform.  There's also new ownership with deeper pockets and Poile might not have the same standing as before. They also have not been able to add a top-6 F in free agency so might be forced to go the trade route.  Can't see them going into the season without a 2nd line.  

 

He also thinks there are going to be some tampering accusations.  He's not sure if there will be formal complaints and wonders if they will become actionable.  Apparently lots of screams about tampering on Wednesday night. 

 

We might not be in the clear on the tampering side of things... Lazar in an interview said that part of why he chose Vancouver was their level of interest through "this whole process".  We had signed him 15 minutes into free agency, not sure how much of a process that could have been.

It is small potatoes though, all these big contracts being signed within an hour of free agency opening is just nonsense.  I have no idea why they got rid of that courting week.  I understand the Covid year when there just wasn't enough time in the calendar... but it made things more on the up and up.

[TmanVan]

12 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

what about Fabbro (RD)+ Trenin (great 3C)+ 2nd?

They have Jeannot, they have picks, they have the assets!!!!

Fabbro plus Tomasino. Too much to ask ??

[mll]

Just now, Canucks Curse said:

what about Fabbro (RD)+ Trenin (great 3C)+ 2nd?

They have Jeannot, they have picks, they have the assets!!!!

Trenin is not a C - it's Sissons that plays C on their so-called herd line with Trenin on wing (he's been tried very early on at C but has been moved to wing for several years now).   They think Jeannot can become a top-6 powerforward so not sure they would include him.  

 

Trenin is a bottom of the lineup player.  Fabbro might not be a top-4 - adding McDonagh feels somewhat telling that they weren't satisfied with their top-4.

 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Anyone else been tuning out Drance whenever he has a radio hit on local shows? His presumptive takes on the Miller situation and the team overall have been incredibly annoying this past week.

 

Getting up to Sekeres/Price and J-Pat level of annoying.

[Noble 6]

Based on the Rutherford interview today it sounds like Miller will be with us to start the year. Rutherford said there are two paths here, we either re-sign him or trade him and we will know for sure by the next trade deadline. Letting Miller walk is not an option. Given that he said he views this as Horvat's team moving forward, I would expect a Miller trade to happen next year before the deadline. 

 

It will be interesting to see how the Canucks do leading up to the deadline and if the idea changes at all. If the Canucks are comfortably top-3 in the division, do you still trade your 1C for futures? 

 

For this offseason, we still have to move out at least one winger. The most likely candidate in my mind is Pearson, who would probably return a mid round pick. 

 

Mikheyev - Miller - Garland

Hoglander - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Kuzmenko - Horvat - Boeser

Dickinson - Joshua - Lazar

 

That's a very deep top-9 that is very interchangeable on any given night based on matchups or hot/cold streaks.