[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, Rackdawg said:

Heaven forbid a Vancouver canuck has some emotion on the ice hey..lol..they need a lot more of it.

eh. 

 

[wai_lai416]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

In order of importance

 

Trading the following this year due to cap implications and an inability to sign them

 

Horvat.  $8 million EASY for a Bergeron light on the open market.  We can't afford $6.5

Kuzmenko.  We can't afford him and trading him for the highest possible bidder makes the most sense, because again.  We can not afford him.

Pearson.  because, obvious reasons.

 

Next season.

 

Myers.

Garland.

Pettersson (if he won't extend his contract here)

 

Following season.

Miller

Pettersson

 

This sucks.  Like this absolutely positively frigging sucks.  By not being able to keep horvat we lose one of if not our most dependable and defensively responsible centre.  Losing him will create a domino effect because we literally have nobody remotely close to him in the organization.  the compounding losses will keep us in the bottom and possibly force Pettersson out; as he has already made comments about wanting to play for a contender.

 

So we stand to essentially lose most of our core under 30 players in the next 2-3 seasons due to either cap attrition or a refusal to sign here due to lack of competitiveness

honestly i don't see why we can't afford bo and kuzmenko next season. as it stands right now we are projected to have around 12mil assuming cap only goes up by 1mil.. but there's a really good chance escrow is paid off this season and it goes up by 4-4.5mil.. assuming it does it gives us around 15mil to sign bo kuz.. hoglander will prolly still be making minimum or 1mil ish poolman prolly never plays again. so that might free up an extra 2.5 and try to move pearson at this tdl if possible if not use a sweetener to move him in the off season that'll give us more than enough to keep horvat and kuzmenko if they are willing. again doesn't fix the defence.. but that's up to the management to figure out how to either move miller or boeser. i rather keep horvat over Miller just because Horvat doesn't require 2 defensive player to cover up Miller's mistake and if put with 2 decent offensive player he can produce at a reasonable number maybe not as high as Miller but respectable. 

[combover]

What some  seem to forget is horvat is put out in more defensive situations and plays against other teams top line and until last year was given trash as linemates. 

The fact he still puts up the numbers he does is fantastic. 
now take him off the team and see what happens to miller and ep numbers when there being ask to play more defensive roles. 
miller is a fantastic player ep in a superstar but with out horvat both will suffer. 

Horvat is just more important to this team than miller and it’ll be painfully obvious when he’s gone.
Teams will be lining up for a Top #2 Center like horvat he’d be wise at this point to ride the wave and go into summer as a UFA, I could see him getting 9 per with a chance of winning something more than a wildcard spot.

management missed the mark and picked the wrong horse. 
Signing miller and lowballing horvat  was a mistake.  
 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by combover

[Warhippy]

15 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

honestly i don't see why we can't afford bo and kuzmenko next season. as it stands right now we are projected to have around 12mil assuming cap only goes up by 1mil.. but there's a really good chance escrow is paid off this season and it goes up by 4-4.5mil.. assuming it does it gives us around 15mil to sign bo kuz.. hoglander will prolly still be making minimum or 1mil ish poolman prolly never plays again. so that might free up an extra 2.5 and try to move pearson at this tdl if possible if not use a sweetener to move him in the off season that'll give us more than enough to keep horvat and kuzmenko if they are willing. again doesn't fix the defence.. but that's up to the management to figure out how to either move miller or boeser. i rather keep horvat over Miller just because Horvat doesn't require 2 defensive player to cover up Miller's mistake and if put with 2 decent offensive player he can produce at a reasonable number maybe not as high as Miller but respectable. 

Let's say hypothetically the cap increase by $4 million.

 

If our suggested or corrected space next year is $83.5 million as per capfriendly.  We will have roughly $11 million to play with without any bonuses or overages.  

 

Horvat will command high $7 million, we'll say $7.75 million.  An increase of $2.25 million

Kuzmenko would/will be in the neighbourhood of $6.5 million.  An increase of $5.65 million

Hoglander will probably get a small bump to say $1.5 million, an increase of $600k

 

That's about $8 million on an expected or estimated $11 million to play with.  This is without adding anything and pretending our defense and goaltending is somehow going to be good enough to get us to the promised land.  Which drops by $4 million if Poolman and Dermott come back and are totally healthy for a total of $7.25 million in cap space again IF the estimate goes up by as much as some hope it does.  if it doesn't it is actually closer to only $5 million in cap space which is not enough to net us Horvat, Kuzmenko and Hoglander or extend Bear or Burroughs.  

 

Now, I may be reading the numbers wrong but it all seems to add up fairly well.  Our best possible option to retain Hoglander, Kuzmenko and Horvat while maintaining the status quo; which is not good enough to get us to the playoffs as of the time I am writing this; is if Poolman and Dermott stay on LTIR, the cap goes up by $4+ million and Horvat and Kuzmenko take the lower end of the potential higher dollar value deals they will be offered or potentially asking.

 

I don't see how it is possible to keep everyone and still pretend we're good enough to compete for a cup.  Therein lies the proverbial rub.  We can maintain the team we have, spend to the cap again and still not make the dance. 

 

Something has to change.

 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

All summer you were on the "Miller-Pettersson -Horvat 3C's!" train JM.

 

 

I was. Maybe you were fighting? dunno. 

[SilentSam]

38 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

The guy is terrible when he's throwing emotional fits. He doesn't lead on the ice. He's too hot tempered. But hey, if you want a leader like that, all the more power to you. I personally would not follow a player like that. But that's me. 

 

May I suggest minor hockey for you then,

start with “pond puppies”  and you might gravitate to the bantam level in the same season.

This is the professional level,  and you want to dummy down on emotion, and passion by calling them “temper tantrum’s “. Lol

 

tell that to Crosby ,  and a whole bunch of them,   You’d get laughed at as hysterically as I am now.

 

 

 

 

 

[wai_lai416]

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let's say hypothetically the cap increase by $4 million.

 

If our suggested or corrected space next year is $83.5 million as per capfriendly.  We will have roughly $11 million to play with without any bonuses or overages.  

 

Horvat will command high $7 million, we'll say $7.75 million.  An increase of $2.25 million

Kuzmenko would/will be in the neighbourhood of $6.5 million.  An increase of $5.65 million

Hoglander will probably get a small bump to say $1.5 million, an increase of $600k

 

That's about $8 million on an expected or estimated $11 million to play with.  This is without adding anything and pretending our defense and goaltending is somehow going to be good enough to get us to the promised land.  Which drops by $4 million if Poolman and Dermott come back and are totally healthy for a total of $7.25 million in cap space again IF the estimate goes up by as much as some hope it does.  if it doesn't it is actually closer to only $5 million in cap space which is not enough to net us Horvat, Kuzmenko and Hoglander or extend Bear or Burroughs.  

 

Now, I may be reading the numbers wrong but it all seems to add up fairly well.  Our best possible option to retain Hoglander, Kuzmenko and Horvat while maintaining the status quo; which is not good enough to get us to the playoffs as of the time I am writing this; is if Poolman and Dermott stay on LTIR, the cap goes up by $4+ million and Horvat and Kuzmenko take the lower end of the potential higher dollar value deals they will be offered or potentially asking.

 

I don't see how it is possible to keep everyone and still pretend we're good enough to compete for a cup.  Therein lies the proverbial rub.  We can maintain the team we have, spend to the cap again and still not make the dance. 

 

Something has to change.

 

Hence I suggest I rather move on from boeser miller Pearson. U won’t get much if anything for return but it frees up a lot of cap

[JeremyCuddles]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

May I suggest minor hockey for you then,

start with “pond puppies”  and you might gravitate to the bantam level in the same season.

This is the professional level,  and you want to dummy down on emotion, and passion by calling them “temper tantrum’s “. Lol

 

tell that to Crosby ,  and a whole bunch of them,   You’d get laughed at as hysterically as I am now.

 

 

 

 

 

My favorite part of that video is the first clip and how the announcers are saying the official "snapped completely" while the players are yelling and swearing. Lol. All the official did was throw the glove on the ground behind the bench aggressively. This was a fun watch to say the least.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Hence I suggest I rather move on from boeser miller Pearson. U won’t get much if anything for return but it frees up a lot of cap

after 4-6 years of hearing "we tried to make something happen but the market wasn't there" I have little hope of anything being possible.  even with a new management group who already gave us that writ last season

[JeremyCuddles]

22 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

after 4-6 years of hearing "we tried to make something happen but the market wasn't there" I have little hope of anything being possible.  even with a new management group who already gave us that writ last season

Which is weird cause a lot of talk when we first hired Rutherford was that he was touted as a bit of a gunslinger. Management seems more like a bunch of snoozers. 

[wai_lai416]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

after 4-6 years of hearing "we tried to make something happen but the market wasn't there" I have little hope of anything being possible.  even with a new management group who already gave us that writ last season

i'm hoping the player be the one that request a trade out instead of playing for a losing team lol

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, combover said:

lowballing horvat  was a mistake.  
 

 

 

 

I keep seeing this 'lowballl' thing tossed out, by multiple posters, but have never seen a link/story stating that actually happened.

Does anyone have a link?

[NHL97OneTimer]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

We'd be lucky to get a 2nd, and a prospect.

2 thoughts:

 

1.  I'm hoping that they play him to rack up points before trading him......so hopefully something back that helps the team or a higher draft pick.

 

2.  To be honest, the cap space and not losing him for nothing with the next contract round may be worth it if that's all we get.

 

Too bad, but I think we've all seen this rerun before of Brock not having a full season and not putting up the points that we'd hoped for.  Unlucky and I'm sure he has a great future still but right now Bo is more valuable to us.

[combover]

19 minutes ago, gurn said:

I keep seeing this 'lowballl' thing tossed out, by multiple posters, but have never seen a link/story stating that actually happened.

Does anyone have a link?

I’m not sure about a full story I've just heard it said on sports net a few times now. Friedman and others. 
it is just a rumour thou. 
This is the best I could find in print 

 

The Canucks had contract-extension talks with the Horvat camp during the offseason. In September, TSN's Pierre LeBrun observed those discussions had been quiet for most of the summer. On Oct. 27, the Toronto Star's Nick Kypreos reported hearing the Canucks captain rejected a lowball offer that wasn't close to what comparable centers are making

Edited November 5, 2022 by combover

[grandmaster]

I would say that Bo has pretty much played himself off this team. At his goal scoring rate, the guy is gonna command even more than Miller’s contract. The team might not be able to afford an 8M and a 9M per contract for the next 7 or 8 years (which goes into the mid 30’s). He may unfortunately be traded. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to keep both. Just don’t see this happening.

[Gurn]

35 minutes ago, combover said:

I’m not sure about a full story I've just heard it said on sports net a few times now. Friedman and others. 
it is just a rumour thou. 
This is the best I could find in print 

 

The Canucks had contract-extension talks with the Horvat camp during the offseason. In September, TSN's Pierre LeBrun observed those discussions had been quiet for most of the summer. On Oct. 27, the Toronto Star's Nick Kypreos reported hearing the Canucks captain rejected a lowball offer that wasn't close to what comparable centers are making

Thanks.

[lmm]

9 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Bo's scoring tear puts holes in a lot of assumptions by many pundits. A lot of those goals are coming from primary assists by Miller. Is this scoring tear a blip or a real indicator of Bo's offensive upside with the proper wingers? For me resigning Horvat was always more important than the Miller deal. His age is complimentary and his FO% has been consistently good. I suspect management is looking at their prospect pool and wondering if they have someone there that can climb into the top 6 and play with Bo. Perhaps we should get excited by McDonaugh who has a great shot and size!

 

If this is a rebuild on the fly then Miller and Boeser should be moved. That might not happen until spring. Management will have to see where the strength lies with this group. The better Miller plays the more easily he can be traded. If Boeser gets healthy long enough to play 20 games move him asap. 

\I look at the Horvat scoring spree somewhat like the Bertuzzi scoring spree

So far Bo is pretty much a one trick pony

Didn't Garland tell Boeser that he was the best bumper player he had ever seen?

I think he was confusing Boeser with Bo.

I wonder, if it came to a playoff series whether one team would figure out how to stop it, then the rest of the league would follow suit?

I'd bet if there was a graphic of shot position, 8/10 would be the exact same spot

 

why would you want to put Bo with a shooter?

He is the shooter

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, lmm said:

So far Bo is pretty much a one trick pony

Face off wizard

second in the league in goals

 

 

so that pony knows at least two tricks.

[lmm]

10 minutes ago, gurn said:

Face off wizard

second in the league in goals

 

 

so that pony knows at least two tricks.

He is a faceoff wizard, I'll give you that

but I don't see his bumper goals being sustainable over the long haul

I mentioned Bertuzzi, the league took his push off move away and his goal production dropped

Miller had a good Face off move last year, but doesn't seem to be able to pull that move this year and his face off number has dropped

I just think a good system will overcome Bo's bumper move

[Gurn]

29 minutes ago, lmm said:

He is a faceoff wizard, I'll give you that

but I don't see his bumper goals being sustainable over the long haul

I mentioned Bertuzzi, the league took his push off move away and his goal production dropped

Miller had a good Face off move last year, but doesn't seem to be able to pull that move this year and his face off number has dropped

I just think a good system will overcome Bo's bumper move

From the first post in 

 

Some will remember that Horvat’s goal-scoring tear actually began well back into the 2021/22 season.

 

Horvat’s hot streak — if it can even be called a streak at this point — started up on March 9, 2022, with a one goal, one assist performance against the Montreal Canadiens. Since that date, Horvat has racked up an astonishing 24 goals in 29 games.

 

For those who don’t have their extrapolators handy, that’s a pace of 68 goals over a full season. And, sure, our more adolescent-minded readers (and writers) might wish that number were one higher, but, come on, it’s still rather astonishing, isn’t it?

 

For the record, that would be the most goals scored in a single NHL campaign since Mario Lemieux put up 69 (there you go) in 1995/96.

 

Now, we’re back on the “small sample size” and “unsustainable” argument, but it’s losing steam. A 29-game stretch is more than a third of a full season. With a multi-month gap right in the middle of it all, it’s harder and harder to look at this as a streak and not just a new standard of play, even if only a temporary one.

 

Horvat also has a total of 32 points in those same 29 games, a 91-point pace. But this article is about goals, darn it, and we’re sticking to it.

No matter how far we turn back the clock, the scoring rate stands out.

 

Horvat’s last 41 games, marking a half-season’s worth? 28 goals, good for a 56-goal pace.

 

His last 81 games, taking him all the way back to the start of the 2021/22 season? He’s at 41 goals.

 

Just for fun, if you want to tack on Horvat’s last game of the 2020/21 season to get it up to a nice, round 82-game sample, you wind up with an extra goal for a grand total of 42 goals. That’s a full season’s worth of play, spread over three seasons, in which Horvat has been putting up the sort of goal numbers that only genuine superstars ever approach.

 

So maybe Horvat is a genuine superstar?

 

Just for kicks, we turned our way-back machine back to the pre-pandemic era of early January 2020. Since then, Horvat has played in 164 games — two full seasons’ worth — and scored 70 goals, for a per-season rate of 35.

 

During that same period, only 20 other NHL players have scored more goals.

 

Take it all the way back to January 1, 2019, and you get a perfect three-season sample of 246 games, during which Horvat has tallied 92 goals. That still averages out to more than 30 per season, and is good for 31^st place amongst NHLers during that same timeframe."

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Seems this is not just a hot streak, but rather a new level in his career.

.